Would you trade Yunel Escobar?

[Chuck]

Escobar has proved three things to us:

1. That last season was no fluke

2. That he's a valuable guy atop ANY teams lineup. 

3. He could bring us back a good prospect or two in any trade.

So with that in mind.. Would you look at keeping him for a run next year (and F off to all of you who think next year is a throw away year -- too early for that shit) or would you trade him for a good chip or two before this season's deadline, or next season's if we're out of it? 

Look I get it.. With possibly Richards, Heaney and Tropeano all out of the rotation next year, it looks bleak. That said, we have a valuable replacement for Tropeano in Nate Smith IMO and if we keep Santiago we have a pretty decent 1-3 in Shoemaker, Skaggs and Santiago. If we're able to add a FA pitcher for the #4 spot that could give us some quality innings, sign or trade for a productive LF, we may be in a position with Escobar, Trout, Calhoun, (a healthy Cron) and good offensive production from Bandy at C, 25-30 HR, 100 RBI from Pujols & Simmons who is showing he can hit in addition to play amazing run saving defense. 

Also, we all know Cowart can play a better 3B than Escobar, but can he hit enough at the major league level to be someone we can build around? Who replaces Escobar at the leadoff spot if we trade him? For once, since Chone Figgins, we got a guy that gets on base and hits for a high average a top the lineup. It has been since 2009 folks. 

@CALZONE I'd like you to save your thoughts for one of your own threads on the 2017 season. 

 

[kevinb]

Can I say lets see after the Boston series 

[Jason]

His value is pretty high right now so it would be tough not to if you got back some really good talent. The team still will not be good enough next season to make a championship run so keeping him isn't going to make that much of a difference IMO

[Chuck]

1 minute ago, Kevinb said:

Can I say lets see after the Boston series 

You can vote after the Boston series, yes. 

[mtangelsfan]

Sell high, which is now.  Chances are he will not be around when the Angels can make a run anyways.

[Chuck]

Just now, mtangelsfan said:

Sell high, which is now.  Chances are he will not be around when the Angels can make a run anyways.

I'm not against it, but at the same time I'm not sure who replaces Escobar at the leadoff spot (unless we get a prospect back with leadoff tools). 

Also, from people I've talked to in the org, Escobar is highly liked in the clubhouse and is said to have been a vocal leader in that space. 

[mtangelsfan]

Not sure who leads off really matters this season.  If you trade Escobar you are saying you are not really going to win this season and you are making deals for another year.  

[Chuck]

If we're going to go full rebuild mode for 2018, a good scenario would be to get a guy like Hunter Dozier from Royals (they have Moose & Cuthbert at 3B) for Hector Santiago, then trade Escobar to a team that needs a leadoff hitter for an on-base guy for LF that's close & a lower level arm with promise.  You could also include Cowart in the deal if we get Hunter Dozier.

Here's Dozier's (24) stats (former 1st round pick of the Royals). 

.307/.375/.561 (.935 OPS) with 29 doubles, 21 HR between AA and AAA. 

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Not sure who leads off really matters this season.  If you trade Escobar you are saying you are not really going to win this season and you are making deals for another year.  

My point MT is that he has a cheap option for next year.. why not wait to see what Arte will do after having Wilson, Smith, Weaver's contracts coming off the books next year. He may be able to add someone to play LF for us in a trade or FA signing, plus get a decent #3 like Hellickson, Cashner etc. to bolster the rotation. 

[mtangelsfan]

If Richards and Heaney are gone next year will it really matter?  They will have Skaggs, Santiago (unless they trade him) and Trop.

[Jason]

10 minutes ago, Chuckster70 said:

I'm not against it, but at the same time I'm not sure who replaces Escobar at the leadoff spot (unless we get a prospect back with leadoff tools). 

Also, from people I've talked to in the org, Escobar is highly liked in the clubhouse and is said to have been a vocal leader in that space. 

I'd like to see him figure out that piece of leather on his hand

[Chuck]

3 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

If Richards and Heaney are gone next year will it really matter?  They will have Skaggs, Santiago (unless they trade him) and Trop.

Trop is gone. They will have Shoemaker, Skaggs and Santiago. Add a FA guy like Hellickson who has had a big turnaround for the Phillies, or Cashner. Have Nate Smith round out the rotation at #5. 

[stormngt]

Why can't Escobar play 2?  Give 3b to Cowart.  Sign a LF. Reddick or Cron?  Rebuild the pen and pray with the starters.

[DMVol]

4 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

If Richards and Heaney are gone next year will it really matter?  They will have Skaggs, Santiago (unless they trade him) and Trop.

They won't have Trop unless you know something the rest of us don't.

[Troll Daddy]

What matter is that the team competes in 2017. I think our core players are ready to win and want to win. 

I wouldn't trade Escobar until the 2017 deadline.

The FO won't trade him now unless they're upper tier prospect(s) who can help the team win in 2017. 

Either way ... Eppler has some tough decisions. 

[DMVol]

16 minutes ago, mtangelsfan said:

Sell high, which is now.  Chances are he will not be around when the Angels can make a run anyways.

Agree but with one qualification....I don't expect an elite level prospect but no need to move him unless it's for a prospect who projects pretty well....not sure where you draw that line (between elite and "pretty good") but that is what Eppler gets paid to do.

[mulwin444]

If you can get a great return for him, absolutely...he's not untouchable.  I think, based on the last two seasons, we are getting him at peak value so, with 1 year left on his deal through a team option, you move him if the price is right.  I love the fact that he provides the first real legit lead-off man since Figgy/Abreu but the negatives are there: there is nowhere to hide him in the field, his personality is unpredictable, and he will turn 35 before the start of 2018 season.  In a rare event, we are actually getting a player at his best and, if the team didn't have glaring needs, I'd say hang on to him through the remainder of his deal, but if a Heaney-type deal can be done you make the move.

[Angel Oracle]

I would consider keeping him, but only into 2017.   See how Cowart progresses in August and to start the 2017 season at SLC.     Too old (35) by 2018 to extend him

[DMVol]

1 minute ago, mulwin444 said:

.....I'd say hang on to him through the remainder of his deal, but if a Heaney-type deal can be done you make the move.

I think that is what I was trying to say mulwin....Heaney wasn't an elite prospect but he was pretty damn good....if you could get a guy like that, I'd do it....

[totdprods]

I'd hold him for a high price - if no one pays, I'd love to have him back nest year. Given our needs, we'd need to get a solid SP prospect ready to step in at the minimum.

Problem is I am not seeing a very active 3B market right now. Reyes just got hurt for the Mets, so they may be back on the hunt. They're also looking for pen help. I floated the idea in another thread of something like Escobar and a combo of Street, Smith, Santiago for a return involving guys like Cecchini, Nimmo, and Montero. I think that would be realistic for both sides.

Nimmo and Cecchini are both exactly the type of player we need, and seem to fit what Eppler likes. Low Ks, good eye, good contact. Both are at the right age to go with all of our 26 and under guys in Trout, Simmons, Skaggs, Cron, Perez, Ortega, Marte, Choi, Cowart, Bandy, Bedrosian, Tropeano, Heaney. 

[Second Base]

I've used this reference before, and I rather like it.  Like Natalie Imbruglia, I'm so completely torn. 

On the one hand, value is value, and when you account for defense, Kaleb Cowart would likely be equally as valuable as Yunel Escobar, which means we should get the highest price we can for Yunel. 

On the other hand, we actually have a decent offense again.  A lot of that is on Albert and C.J. Cron improving (until his injury), but I think much more of it falls on Yule's shoulders.  He's constantly on base in front of Calhoun, Trout and Pujols. 

i'll go with yes but only on the condition that we acquire a replacement leadoff hitter that's either our starting LF or 2B next year. 

 

[zenmaster]

How has he managed to not steal a base as a leadoff hitter? Is he running in molasses?

[Troll Daddy]

9 minutes ago, zenmaster said:

How has he managed to not steal a base as a leadoff hitter? Is he running in molasses?

Good question ... although, with Calhoun, Trout, and Pujols following him we may find part of our answer.

[Stradling]

He doesn't have a stolen base because he is the third slowest guy on the team behind Albert and Perez.  

Yes I would trade him if I could get a near major league ready left fielder that would appear to be the lead off hitter of the future.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

16 minutes ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

I've used this reference before, and I rather like it.  Like Natalie Imbruglia, I'm so completely torn. 

On the one hand, value is value, and when you account for defense, Kaleb Cowart would likely be equally as valuable as Yunel Escobar, which means we should get the highest price we can for Yunel. 

On the other hand, we actually have a decent offense again.  A lot of that is on Albert and C.J. Cron improving (until his injury), but I think much more of it falls on Yule's shoulders.  He's constantly on base in front of Calhoun, Trout and Pujols. 

i'll go with yes but only on the condition that we acquire a replacement leadoff hitter that's either our starting LF or 2B next year. 

 

Escobar / Calhoun / Trout / Pujols has been an excellent run scoring combination this year. When you group guys together well you can score more than you might typically expect. Even though WAR is a linear stat offense at the team level is not linear.