Bernie's free college idea

[Lhalo]

Logic dictates that it's not the money of the poor, who by virtue of being poor have no money, that the rich are taking. It's the money of the middle class. The middle class who were conned into a mortgage scandal and get to watch as companies send their jobs to places that are allowed to work people to death for practically nothing. Of course we can always just work harder and hope Richie Rich decides to throw me the bone from the steak that my father's labor provided him while he was busy preparing his draft deferments.

And now we're here arguing over who to vote into office so he/she/it can look the other way while they pick the other pocket. It's just getting harder and harder for a working man to make enough to buy a politician.

 

This is why I'm a huge fan of tariffs. Manufacturing would be a booming industry in America again if we had decent tariffs on our imports. That is how you level the playing field, not by legislating the shit out of every minute detail of business.

[Stradling]

Nate, it's bloody common sense. If you have an extremely small group of people taking all the money then you're gonna have problems.

http://www.businessinsider.com/inequality-is-worse-than-you-think-2013-3

They aren't taking all the money they are earning all the money. The government needs to learn to live and budget the incredibly large sum of money they are taking.

[nate]

earning money, what a concept

[Make Angels Great Again]

You and I have different definitions of earning then.

[Stradling]

Ok I'm ashamed I didn't earn my money, thanks lefties. I'll donate more of my not earned money to people who earned it simply by not having anything.

[Make Angels Great Again]

Did I question whether you earned your money or not?

Here's a question for you. Keep in mind I fully admit these are random ass numbers. If I have 20 employees and they make sales earning the company 20 million dollars over a year, I give them each a 5 thousand dollar bonus and myself a 5 million dollar bonus, do you think I earned that 5 million?

[nate]

Did I question whether you earned your money or not?

Here's a question for you. Keep in mind I fully admit these are random ass numbers. If I have 20 employees and they make sales earning the company 20 million dollars over a year, I give them each a 5 thousand dollar bonus and myself a 5 million dollar bonus, do you think I earned that 5 million?

 

Absolutely, not many people can run a company that earns 20 million dollars a year with only 20 employees.  You must have developed and executed a very good business plan.  You also seem to have hired very good employees.

[Stradling]

Yes because it's your business and you took all the risk in building that country with your own money.

[halobob]

Yes because it's your business and you took all the risk in building that country with your own money.

Strad, you mean you are not upset that you are not getting a 7 figure bonus for all that money you are making INO?

[Make Angels Great Again]

Fine.

My point is the scale is way disproportionate and if it continues then the economy is only going to get worse.

When people don't have disposable income to spend then the economy suffers.

[nate]

I will use a baseball reference.

 

An entry level MLB player makes $550k.  Mike Trout makes $30m.  Do you think it is disproportionate that he makes 50x more than the entry level player?  Aren't the Angels paying him because his skill set is rare.

 

The scale is never 1:1, the more rare something is the more valuable it becomes.  If 20% of the workforce can do it, they might be worth 50k.  If 10% of the workforce can do it they might be worth 150k, if 5% of the workforce can do it they might be worth 1 million, and if 1% of the workforce can do it they might be worth $20 million.  You know why?  Because that is what the market pays.

[halobob]

Fine.

My point is the scale is way disproportionate and if it continues then the economy is only going to get worse.

When people don't have disposable income to spend then the economy suffers.

Bernie wants to take away your disposable income.

[Stradling]

Strad, you mean you are not upset that you are not getting a 7 figure bonus for all that money you are making INO?

I get bonuses each month depending on company and my divisions performance. But no I'm not upset I don't get 7 figure bonuses.

[Jay]

Absolutely, not many people can run a company that earns 20 million dollars a year with only 20 employees.  You must have developed and executed a very good business plan.  You also seem to have hired very good employees.

 

If these very good employees are not paid what they are worth, they will leave the company and go somewhere else.

[Angelsjunky]

I will use a baseball reference.

 

An entry level MLB player makes $550k.  Mike Trout makes $30m.  Do you think it is disproportionate that he makes 50x more than the entry level player?  Aren't the Angels paying him because his skill set is rare.

 

The scale is never 1:1, the more rare something is the more valuable it becomes.  If 20% of the workforce can do it, they might be worth 50k.  If 10% of the workforce can do it they might be worth 150k, if 5% of the workforce can do it they might be worth 1 million, and if 1% of the workforce can do it they might be worth $20 million.  You know why?  Because that is what the market pays.

 

Here's one problem with your analogy. Mike Trout is definitely worth 50x the entry level player, for reasons you say - he has a very, very rare skill set that comes along once or twice in a generation. But what about someone like Albert Pujols? He made $24M last year, but was 131st in WAR in the majors among all position players who had at least 1 PA.

 

So the problem is that your analogy only makes sense if the higher earning players actually earn their salary. Pujols was about league average in terms of overall contribution, yet was paid about 7x league average salary.

 

I would agree more with this system if players were actually payed based upon their performance. How about $4M per WAR? That way Trout gets $36M for last year, and Pujols only $8M.

 

(Of course the other problem is the ridiculous salaries, but that's another issue...the drastic increase of baseball salaries over the last 30 years is a good example of how new wealth has trickled up)

Edited March 8, 2016 by Angelsjunky

[nate]

Pujols earned the contract he got, he just isn't living up to it.  The Angels are failing because of it, that is all a part of the market.

[Stradling]

Here's one problem with your analogy. Mike Trout is definitely worth 50x the entry level player, for reasons you say - he has a very, very rare skill set that comes along once or twice in a generation. But what about someone like Albert Pujols? He made $24M last year, but was 131st in WAR in the majors among all position players who had at least 1 PA.

So the problem is that your analogy only makes sense if the higher earning players actually earn their salary. Pujols was about league average in terms of overall contribution, yet was paid about 7x league average salary.

I would agree more with this system if players were actually payed based upon their performance. How about $4M per WAR? That way Trout gets $36M for last year, and Pujols only $8M.

(Of course the other problem is the ridiculous salaries, but that's another issue...the drastic increase of baseball salaries over the last 30 years is a good example of how new wealth has trickled up)

The good news is that in the real world a guy underperforming compared to salary gets fired or demoted.

[mtangelsfan]

This is why most of us think you are an arrogant a-hole

[Adam]

Because comparing our poor to the poor in other countries that don't have a pot to piss in is just weak. We SHOULD be much better than that. Same thing with the OJ comparison. Not committing murder shouldn't make me look like a good husband.

But we are MUCH better than that

[mtangelsfan]

I like how the hard-working middle-class people in this thread, the ones that worked to get where they are, imply that being poor is cushy and make it seem somewhat desirable.  Is it really that great being poor in America?  So ****ing awesome that you busted your ass so you wouldn't be poor?

Nobody is making it sound desirable. That is stupid.

Let me ask you this, and the other globalists on here. Why are our poor more important than the poor from other countries? Why don't you turn that concern and pity outward? Instead, many of you fight against jobs going to places anywhere other than the good ol' USA

[ABC]

Did I question whether you earned your money or not?

Here's a question for you. Keep in mind I fully admit these are random ass numbers. If I have 20 employees and they make sales earning the company 20 million dollars over a year, I give them each a 5 thousand dollar bonus and myself a 5 million dollar bonus, do you think I earned that 5 million?

 

Employees who can make it rain will leave to competitors who will pay them more if not fairly compensated. I've consulted with sales organizations where sales people with prison records have earned $40K/mo. The top sales people always have options and it isn't easy to hold on to them.

[ABC]

Here's one problem with your analogy. Mike Trout is definitely worth 50x the entry level player, for reasons you say - he has a very, very rare skill set that comes along once or twice in a generation. But what about someone like Albert Pujols? He made $24M last year, but was 131st in WAR in the majors among all position players who had at least 1 PA.

 

So the problem is that your analogy only makes sense if the higher earning players actually earn their salary. Pujols was about league average in terms of overall contribution, yet was paid about 7x league average salary.

 

I would agree more with this system if players were actually payed based upon their performance. How about $4M per WAR? That way Trout gets $36M for last year, and Pujols only $8M.

 

(Of course the other problem is the ridiculous salaries, but that's another issue...the drastic increase of baseball salaries over the last 30 years is a good example of how new wealth has trickled up)

 

Pujols' value isn't only in his production. His name fills seats, sells merch, attracts TV viewers. He may or may not have lived up to his contract in terms of value he brings to the org but your assessment of the situation is not complete nor does it support your view of wealth trickling up.

[Adam]

Nobody is making it sound desirable. That is stupid.

Let me ask you this, and the other globalists on here. Why are our poor more important than the poor from other countries? Why don't you turn that concern and pity outward? Instead, many of you fight against jobs going to places anywhere other than the good ol' USA

 

And its good enough that there are plenty of people who are plenty content to not achieve more.

 

The majority of poor people could be not poor if they were willing to work for it. 

[Make Angels Great Again]

You're so very wrong there Adam.

 

We're just going in circles at this point though.

[Adam]

I'm very right.