Bernie's free college idea

[Angelsjunky]

I know this sounds crazy but I grew up in a poor mostly single parent family and when I turned 16 I got a job to pay for the stuff I wanted like a car and gas.  I have never stopped working since then.  It has worked out pretty well.

 

I think it is more important for people to learn what it is like to work for a living than to pamper them with freebies.

 

Really? You think that? I would never have thought.

 

Seriously though, one of the mistakes I think you guys make is thinking, "If I did it, why can't you?" It isn't so simple. Different people struggle in different ways. You're married, right? Think of the things that your wife can do easily that is like pulling teeth for you, and vice versa.

 

I wasn't using threshold in a negative way.  Just making the point that he has to pick a number.  Whatever number he picks will end up being unfair due to location, history, family situation etc...........

 

True, and I don't see a way around that.

 

With the plethora of data on cost of living that could be arranged but in my case, although I live in a Upper Middle Class neighborhood, the house I purchased 20 years ago is still covered by Prop 13 (the greatest initiative ever) so my tax rate is held at a lower assessment. So I would be double dipping on tax breaks by being in the right place for my income but with a lower loan payment and state tax than newer residents.

 

Adjusting for those would screw over retirees on fixed income (everyone's future) so no matter how you try and balance that scale people will be plowed by a tax rate not commensurate with their real dollar spending power.

 

Yeah, complicated.

 

Yep. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[nate]

Seriously though, one of the mistakes I think you guys make is thinking, "If I did it, why can't you?" It isn't so simple. Different people struggle in different ways. You're married, right? Think of the things that your wife can do easily that is like pulling teeth for you, and vice versa.

 

What does that have to do with anything?  I am average athletically, short, and not fast, but I don't expect anyone to hand me a MLB contract.  You can never equalize that which is not equal.

Edited February 26, 2016 by nate

[Angelsjunky]

What does that have to do with anything?  I am average athletically, short, and not fast, but I don't expect anyone to hand me a MLB contract.  You can never equalize that which is not equal.

 

Yes, I get that. I'm just saying, just because you can do something, don't assume that someone else can, or do it as easily as you can.

 

One of my closest friends is a gardener and farmer. He does things that I couldn't imagine being able to do. I could do some of them, but it would be very hard for me. On the other hand, I wrote a 200,000-word novel, something he would struggle to do.

[nate]

Ok... but the point is, people are good at different things, that doesn't mean we need to subsidize the ones that are good at things that aren't lucrative.

 

Like I posted before:

 

"A society that puts equality - in the sense of equality of outcome - ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality nor freedom. The use of force to achieve equality will destroy the freedom, and the force, introduced for good purposes, will end up in the hands of people who use it to promote their own interests."

 

It is very profound.

Edited February 26, 2016 by nate

[nate]

I should also say that nor should we penalize the ones that are good at something that is lucrative.

[Adam]

My cock is lucrative for example. 

[nate]

In Adam's case, being delusional is very lucrative.

[arch stanton]

My daughter is a 2nd year med school student at Northeastern. The fund I set up has kicked in about 70 grand but that's not close to covering everything. I'll probably be on social security before she pays everything.

[Spirit]

Adam likes his girls with super small hands.

 

 

 

[Jay]

My daughter is a 2nd year med school student at Northeastern. The fund I set up has kicked in about 70 grand but that's not close to covering everything. I'll probably be on social security before she pays everything.

 

Congrats on your daughter the future doctor, you must be very proud.

 

Let's hope there's still money to be made in that profession.

[Glen]

Reading this thread is like re-experiencing a political argument with my family.

[Angelsjunky]

Ok... but the point is, people are good at different things, that doesn't mean we need to subsidize the ones that are good at things that aren't lucrative.

 

Like I posted before:

 

"A society that puts equality - in the sense of equality of outcome - ahead of freedom will end up with neither equality nor freedom. The use of force to achieve equality will destroy the freedom, and the force, introduced for good purposes, will end up in the hands of people who use it to promote their own interests."

 

It is very profound.

 

It is a good quote, but don't entirely agree with it, nor do I think it should be taken as some kind of absolutist maxim that must be taken literally.  There's a lot of room for interpretation there - for instance, what does he mean by "use of force?" Is it "use of force" to tax? And if so, is he saying that we shouldn't have taxes at all?

 

Friedman is a laissez-faire economist, right? Didn't he work for Reagan - the great champion of the wealthy, whose "trickle-down economics" led to increased wealth for the upper class and the shrinking of the middle class?

[nate]

Use of force means forced complicity.  You are forcing equality.

 

Friedman is considered to be one of the greatest american economists of all time.  He is a free market economist.

[Angelsjunky]

Who is "forcing equality?" Are you talking about increased taxes and redistribution of wealth?

 

Friedman is fetishized by fiscal conservatives, but I think the proof is in the pudding and the pudding--his influence on Reagan and trickle-down economics--kind of stinks.

[nate]

Yes that is exactly what I am talking about.

 

Nice job putting down a nobel prize winning economist that was revered around the world and in this country.

[Glen]

Obama won a Nobel prize.

[mtangelsfan]

Ha!

[nate]

For peace.  His economic policies are idiotic.

 

Aside from the Nobel Price in Economics, Friedman also has these weak ass institutions on his resume:

• Hoover Institution (1977–2006)
• Columbia University (1964–65)
• University of Chicago (1946–77)
• University of Cambridge (1954–1955)
• Columbia University (1937–41; 1943–45)
• National Bureau of Economic Research (1937–40)

 

AJ has lives in his parents basement and reads salon.com.  Clearly more qualified.

[Spirit]

Reading this thread is like re-experiencing a political argument with my family.

 

Your family political arguments deal with guys hooking up with girl that have extremely small hands so the dudes wang looks bigger?

 

I want to party with you guys!

[Blarg]

My cock is lucrative for example.

You misspelled lubricated.

[Blarg]

Obama won a Nobel prize.

That was for being a black guy in Chicago that hadn't shot anyone. Edited February 27, 2016 by notti

[Blarg]

AJ getting a speeding ticket:

"It is a good limit, but don't entirely agree with it, nor do I think it should be taken as some kind of absolutist maxim that must be taken literally."

Cop: "See you in court."

[Adam]

"Stop looking at things as though they're black and white, Officer."

[Angelsjunky]

nate, why do you get so pissed when I don't just bow to your erudition and revere your heroes with you? I'm not upset that you don't adore Marx and Lenin.

 

Anyhow, I didn't say Milton Friedman wasn't a legit economist - clearly he's hugely influential. That doesn't make his approach the best or only way. There are other ways, other economic schools of thought.

[Make Angels Great Again]

For peace.  His economic policies are idiotic.

 

Aside from the Nobel Price in Economics, Friedman also has these weak ass institutions on his resume:

• Hoover Institution (1977–2006)
• Columbia University (1964–65)
• University of Chicago (1946–77)
• University of Cambridge (1954–1955)
• Columbia University (1937–41; 1943–45)
• National Bureau of Economic Research (1937–40)

 

AJ has lives in his parents basement and reads salon.com.  Clearly more qualified.

 

 

You seem to have an issue with insulting people you converse with.