Oregon state police: Reports of 10 dead at college

[AngelsLongBall]

In the UK in 2011-12, the last year for which there are complete statistics, there were 640 homicides. A total of 44 involved firearms. For the year. That is six percent of all murder cases, and a rate of 0.72 gun homicides per million population.

Citizens Report - Murders in the UK

640 is a strong month in Chicago

[Angelsjunky]

Yes. However, it's not as simple as you state. Again, the trick is correlations. 

 

For example, Mexico, where my wife is from, and a place I visit semi=frequently, has strict gun control. I know because when my mom-in-law's store was repeatedly robbed, she stated that she couldn't own a gun to defend herself. Yet, the murder rate is much higher than in the US. 

 

Japan has a low murder rate, but so do Japanese-Americans. 

 

My point is that culture correlates very strongly with crime, probably much more so than guns. 

 

That doesn't mean that there's no place for gun control (I ignore the constitution, as do most jurors). It's just that a thorough, SMART analysis is called for, not crude ones. 

 

Aside from the fact that you countered my over-simplified correlation with one of your own (re: Mexico), I don't think anyone would disagree that smart analysis is called for. Actually, it is a bit of a truism to say so.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Angelsjunky

[Spirit]

I agree that you're both simpletons.  

[Angelsjunky]

I agree that you're both simpletons.  

 

Worthwhile post.

[Spirit]

Again, I agree.

[Adam]

Lol

[juansavage1]

You don't see the blue as significantly worse than the red?

Yes, but we're trying to correlate guns and violence. Britain had lower gun violence when they had a lot more guns. Their rate was always lower than the US, even when guns in both places were easy to acquire. I'm not saying that I have the answer. I'm only pointing out that this issue is far more complicated than people care to admit. 

Edited October 3, 2015 by Juan Savage

[Vegas Halo Fan]

You don't see the blue as significantly worse than the red?

 

It seems that you were far more interested in pointing out that the UK murder rate had not declined "despite more gun control" - never mind that compared to ours, it is negligible to begin with. Ours is an inherently violent society, and the widespread availability of firearms is an inextricable part of that.

[Lhalo]

I blame rap music.

[Lou]

I blame rap music.

You obviously meant to say country music

[Lou]

" (statistics ahead- run, lefties) " was genius

[mancini79]

You obviously meant to say country music

 

He meant the rap scene in Texas.

[the dude abides]

Apparently the Oregon Sheriff in charge of this investigation was/is a Sandy Hook truther.

Irony:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/03/us/oregon-sheriff-shared-sandy-hook-conspiracy-theory-on-facebook.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&_r=0

[juansavage1]

Aside from the fact that you countered my over-simplified correlation with one of your own (re: Mexico), I don't think anyone would disagree that smart analysis is called for. Actually, it is a bit of a truism to say so.

Actually, people don't usually want to look at this in a comprehensive way. 

[juansavage1]

It seems that you were far more interested in pointing out that the UK murder rate had not declined "despite more gun control" - never mind that compared to ours, it is negligible to begin with. Ours is an inherently violent society, and the widespread availability of firearms is an inextricable part of that.

You're making a connection that isn't supported by facts. If firearms affected inherent violence, then Britain would have had the same level of violence and South Dakota would be more violent than Chicago. 

 

If you took away all of the guns, you'd still have a lot of people who'd want to kill other people. 

[Jay]

I think Obama is blowing the arms industry.

Every time he mentions gun control, sales go through the roof.

[juansavage1]

I want a million dollars, but there is not 9 million dollars for every 10 americans. Result? Earning a million dollars is much more difficult.

 

But go ahead, keep blowing the arms industry. Heres a tissue to help you clean up.

This is a non-answer. I've been on Army bases where everybody had a loaded weapon and I never felt threatened. I would probably feel unsafe at a gang party where people only had knives. Guns don't change the attitude of the people. You'd still have the same amount of criminals and criminals are probably, on average, better at hand to hand than the average civilian. 

[red321]

This is a non-answer. I've been on Army bases where everybody had a loaded weapon and I never felt threatened. I would probably feel unsafe at a gang party where people only had knives. Guns don't change the attitude of the people. You'd still have the same amount of criminals and criminals are probably, on average, better at hand to hand than the average civilian. 

 

What base would that be? General policy is the only people carrying loaded firearms on military bases are security personnel and military police.

[Spirit]

What base would that be? General policy is the only people carrying loaded firearms on military bases are security personnel and military police.

 

Enjoy the silence.  You may be wait awhile. 

[Jay]

What base would that be? General policy is the only people carrying loaded firearms on military bases are security personnel and military police.

 

The Alamo?

[Tank]

i can hear the jeopardy song playing on a continuous loop right now.

[the dude abides]

i can hear the jeopardy song playing on a continuous loop right now.

 

I hear the Depeche Mode song in my head.

 

Damn you, Geoff!

Edited October 6, 2015 by the dude abides

[juansavage1]

When I was deployed, everybody had a gun at all times. FOB=forward operating base.

Again, there could be good gun policies and while I think self defense is a natural right, a particular tool for the job isn't.

What base would that be? General policy is the only people carrying loaded firearms on military bases are security personnel and military police.

Edited October 6, 2015 by Juan Savage

[red321]

Fair enough, I assumed the policy did not apply to active war zones

[juansavage1]

This is a complicated issue that includes culture (you want to live in a place where men can't have guns? Really? What's the message there?), safety, freedom and some other things.

I lean towards freedom for responsible people.