Cespedes a Met

[Guest]

I never understood the whole "Arte made Dipoto sign Pujols, CJ, and Hamilton." Then again, I look at those signings very differently than most. It was either: Suck until our farm system was rebuilt (think Astros) or go out and buy some wins while we rebuild the farm system. We chose the latter and I am happy we did. Remember, Trout was a big prospect, but no one thought he would be the second coming of Mickey mantel.

 

The decision to sign CJ Wilson was likely Dipoto. The team needed pitching going into the 2012 season more than they needed a third power hitting first baseman. 

 

The standard narrative is that Arte pressured Dipoto into signing Pujols at a rate above what Dipoto would have normally been comfortable with because Moreno, who became a billionaire in the field of advertising, expected the signing would generate hype going into negotiations for the new TV deal. A bigger offer would thereby partially offset some of the expense for the signing. 

 

As for Hamilton, Dipoto's main target was Zack Greinke, not an unnecessary fourth outfileder. When that deal fell apart due to being outbid by the Dodgers and Greinke's preference for playing in the NL, I strongly suspect Dipoto left to his own devices would have used the money to go after less glamorous but still very much needed pitchers. Moreno panicked however because from a PR perspective the crosstown rival LA Dodgers had stolen the Angels' thunder with their recent spectacular trades and signings. Arte then decided to spend all the money set aside for Greinke on Hamilton. This highly unexpected signing put the Angels back in the spotlight and, in Moreno's view, was a coup for the Angels by poaching away the division rival Texas Rangers' best position player. 

 

Unfortunately, Moreno gave Dipoto a mandate to remain under the luxury cap threshold leaving very little money for Dipoto to get the pitching that the Angels very desperately needed. The end result of that unexpected budget crunch was this:

 

Edited August 1, 2015 by ScottLux

[Vegas Halo Fan]

"Behind me you see the four men who will lead us to a title."

[Inside Pitch]

 

Unfortunately, Moreno gave Dipoto a madate to remain under the luxury cap threshold leaving very little money for Dipoto to get the pitching that the Angels very desperately needed. The end result of that unexpected budget crunch was this:

 

 

It's really pretty interesting the extent people go to in their efforts to recreate history.   The Angels payroll in 2013 was under 130 mil -- pretty well below the cap figure.  The "stay below the cap" talk started last year and was again an issue this season.

 

He signed those guys because he actually believed they were good moves.   He completely threw caution to the wind and signed two RPs who couldn't even throw at the time they signed -- then people acted like it was this massive stroke of bad luck that they missed the entire season.  No, it was a giant stroke of stupid.   The Hanson situation was another example of disregarding arm trouble and playing a hunch..   That too blew up in his face.

 

JD deserves credit for the things he did right -- he also deserves credit for the things he completely butchered.   

Edited August 1, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Guest]

It's really pretty interesting the extent people go to in their efforts to recreate history.   The Angels payroll in 2013 was under 130 mil -- pretty well below the cap figure.  The "stay below the cap" talk started last year and was again an issue this season.

 

He signed those guys because he actually believed they were good moves.   He completely threw caution to the wind and signed two RPs who couldn't even throw at the time they signed -- then people acted like it was this massive stroke of bad luck that they missed the entire season.  No, it was a giant stroke of stupid.   The Hanson situation was another example of disregarding arm trouble and playing a hunch..   That too blew up in his face.

 

JD deserves credit for the things he did right -- he also deserves credit for the things he completely butchered.   

 

 

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/26/sports/la-sp-sn-angels-trade-vernon-wells-yankees-20130326

 

 

$130M was the standard payroll, not the luxury tax payroll. Luxury tax payroll is based on average annual value, and because the Angels have many backloaded contracts, in 2012-2014 the luxury tax payroll was much higher than the actual payroll. In 2013 the Angels luxury tax payroll was $172M. The tax threshold was $178M. 

 

Even then, the only way they were able to get under that amount was by trading away Vernon Wells andusing some clever accounting tricks to help the Angels reduce their luxury tax in 2013, and help the Yankees reduce theirs in 2014. The Wells trade that created some extra payroll headroom didn't happen until well after Dipoto's Folly (Hanson / Blanton / Madson / Burnett)

Edited August 1, 2015 by ScottLux

[UndertheHalo]

Cespedes can be had w/o surrendering a pick in the draft. It would be very pleasing to me if we acquired him this off season.

[Inside Pitch]

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/26/sports/la-sp-sn-angels-trade-vernon-wells-yankees-20130326

 

 

$130M was the standard payroll, not the luxury tax payroll. Luxury tax payroll is based on average annual value, and because the Angels have many backloaded contracts, in 2012-2014 the luxury tax payroll was much higher than the actual payroll. In 2013 the Angels luxury tax payroll was $172M. The tax threshold was $178M. 

 

Even then, the only way they were able to get under that amount was by trading away Vernon Wells andusing some clever accounting tricks to help the Angels reduce their luxury tax in 2013, and help the Yankees reduce theirs in 2014. The Wells trade that created some extra payroll headroom didn't happen until well after Dipoto's Folly (Hanson / Blanton / Madson / Burnett)

 

I understand the tax number is different than the base payroll and Ill admit Im a bit surprised it got as close as it did -- I figured they were closer to 160 mil than 170, but the luxury tax talk didn't start until after the 2013 season when the team tanked.   Until then it was always the same BS about if the right player comes along blah blah blah.  Jerry wasn't prohibited from signing people he wanted to -- that's revisionist history, he was pretty vocal about why he wanted the guys he did.  Signing two guys who couldn't even throw at the time of their signing was inexcusable.

 

Also the tax numbers aren't just average salary -- it includes players on the 40 man and any and all contributions to the MLB pension plan.

Also, sorry if the tone of my initial post seemed more dismissive than it was intended... 

Edited August 1, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

ESPN just said that Wally Joyner and Chili Davis have been his hitting coaches in the last five years.

They can't help lure him here next year?

[OregonLAA]

Why is Dipoto getting the Pujols and Hamilton blame now? What happened? Who said what?

[Stradling]

Oregon, sent you a PM

[m0nkey]

Am I the only one who thinks Cespedes isn't as good as people think he is?

[Kevin]

Monkey, don't be fooled by the thread title. We're talking about the Dipoto situation. Keep up.

[Mark68]

Wow these threads go downhill fast.

 

So anyone think the Mets can sign him long term?

Nope. According to Rosenthal, Cespedes' contract mandates that he be released five days after the end of the World Series. This means that he can't re-sign with the Mets until May.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Am I the only one who thinks Cespedes isn't as good as people think he is?

no. I agree, though i still wouldnt mind signing him. Hes like torii, a pretty good player not a superstar.

If he could figure out a way to get on base more hed be very good

[Guest]

Nope. According to Rosenthal, Cespedes' contract mandates that he be released five days after the end of the World Series. This means that he can't re-sign with the Mets until May.

Wait, so when the A's signed Cespedes, they negotiated the contract such that they (or any other team they traded him to) could not possibly extend the contract?! Is that something Cespedes has the right to waive? 

Edited August 4, 2015 by ScottLux

[Mark68]

Wait, so when the A's signed Cespedes, they negotiated the contract such that had they (or any other team they traded him to) could not possibly extend the contract?! Is that something Cespedes has the right to waive? 

Well, we know that the A's would never have extended him anyway.

 

But yeah, his contract has some weird shit. I didn't even know this until I read it on Baseball Prospectus.

[ukyah]

Wait, so when the A's signed Cespedes, they negotiated the contract such that they (or any other team they traded him to) could not possibly extend the contract?! Is that something Cespedes has the right to waive? 

 

 

the question to ask is this, does the player get more money? if the answer is yes, then the terms of the contract are meaningless if it's what the player desires. if the player desires to make less money, then the union has his dog killed.