Paris Shooting: 'Twelve people killed'

[Lhalo]

Africa getting in on the fun.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2906343/UN-condemns-surge-Nigeria-killings.html

[Tank]

Africa getting in on the fun.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-2906343/UN-condemns-surge-Nigeria-killings.html

 

saw this and am outraged. who's helping to put a stop this butchery? where is the UN? or the US? or anyone else???

[ten ocho recon scout]

Was reading that earlier...mind blowing

[Lhalo]

Charlie Hebdo is going to put the Prophet Mohammed on their cover again.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/mohammed-holds-je-suis-charlie-sign-charlie-hebdo-215647190.html

[DowningRules]

But it isn't just ISIS. What about all the atrocities that routinely happen in Pakistan? Why don't they confront and eradicate extremism there? Same for Saudi Arabia, which is by no means a poor country incapable of progress.

 

Fwiw, Saudi is as put off with ISIS as the US/western Europe is.  However, they don't see them as being as big a threat as 'we' do.  ISIS is relatively small in numbers and I'm pretty sure the Saudi leaders are confidant the US and the its western allies will keep themselves busy trying to eradicate ISIS.  Better that Americans die defeating ISIS then Saudis.  We fall for this Saudi trap time and again.

[ten ocho recon scout]

I wonder how long until the iranians get involved full scale

[TobiasFunke]

As long as we're doing the hard work, they don't have to be involved

[arch stanton]

Fwiw, Saudi is as put off with ISIS as the US/western Europe is.  However, they don't see them as being as big a threat as 'we' do.  ISIS is relatively small in numbers and I'm pretty sure the Saudi leaders are confidant the US and the its western allies will keep themselves busy trying to eradicate ISIS.  Better that Americans die defeating ISIS then Saudis.  We fall for this Saudi trap time and again.

I work on a Saudi air base. I watch their planes fly out loaded and come back empty. The same thing happens in UAE, Jordan, Egypt, Bahrain. Suicide bombers have started killing Saudi border patrols. They fight this battle everyday. Have been for months. They have even gone on record as saying that it's an Arab problem and they will solve it.

[wopphil]

I work on a Saudi air base. I watch their planes fly out loaded and come back empty. The same thing happens in UAE, Jordan, Egypt, Bahrain. Suicide bombers have started killing Saudi border patrols. They fight this battle everyday. Have been for months. They have even gone on record as saying that it's an Arab problem and they will solve it.

Why are they having so much trouble eradicating ISIS? There are hundreds of millions of able bodied Arabs who can take the fight to ISIS, and only several tens of thousands of ISIS. And it isn't as though ISIS tries to hide where it's at.

It blows my mind that they aren't able to fix this problem themselves. They have the money and the resources, the people to fight, and the international support. Sorry, but I have to question their desire.

[Gavin]

Why are they having so much trouble eradicating ISIS? There are hundreds of millions of able bodied Arabs who can take the fight to ISIS, and only several tens of thousands of ISIS. And it isn't as though ISIS tries to hide where it's at.

It blows my mind that they aren't able to fix this problem themselves. They have the money and the resources, the people to fight, and the international support. Sorry, but I have to question their desire.

Yes, because we did so well at "fixing this problem" in Afghanistan and Iraq.

[gotbeer]

It blows my mind that they aren't able to fix this problem themselves. They have the money and the resources, the people to fight, and the international support. Sorry, but I have to question their desire.

 

Yup, no will to stop other Muslims.  Here is an article I found when I was actually looking for an article that the Saudi people were questioning fighting against other Muslims.  While we are bothered by beheadings.

 

When It Comes to Beheadings, ISIS Has Nothing Over Saudi Arabia

 

I think Saudi Arabia and the other Middle East countries know they are on a thin line right now.  ISIS may actually be more in tune with the 90%ers, and are fed up with the 10%ers.  Just think about that for a second.  And it has been brought up in this thread numerous times.  What does the middle east really offer to the world besides oil?  Well, oil is the 10%ers.  Because it's making the sheiks very rich, but leaves rags for everyone else.  So if ISIS means that the 90% might be better off, ISIS has that following that we in the west just can't figure out.  Because as brutality goes, it seems they are the same as those we say should fight against ISIS.

 

Now add in falling oil prices.  Their entire economy is based on oil.  Think if in the U.S., the entire economy was based on oil.  What would happen is a major cut in all services.  What would happen in the US if 50% of all services got cut?  This is the dilemma that is facing the Middle East right now.  And ISIS is ready to step in.  

[InsideThePark]

Why are they having so much trouble eradicating ISIS? There are hundreds of millions of able bodied Arabs who can take the fight to ISIS, and only several tens of thousands of ISIS. And it isn't as though ISIS tries to hide where it's at.

It blows my mind that they aren't able to fix this problem themselves. They have the money and the resources, the people to fight, and the international support. Sorry, but I have to question their desire.

You make it seem like ISIS is all gathered on some hilltop waving their hands up and down. They're embedded into the civilian population which is why it's not easy. They could probably be taken out in a matter of days but that would mean mass civilian casualties... way more than the number of ISIS fighters.

[wopphil]

You make it seem like ISIS is all gathered on some hilltop waving their hands up and down. They're embedded into the civilian population which is why it's not easy. They could probably be taken out in a matter of days but that would mean mass civilian casualties... way more than the number of ISIS fighters.

I don't think these guys are trying to hide. They aren't like terrorists in the Western nations. I think they are relatively open with their ISIS membership.

Edited January 13, 2015 by wopphil

[InsideThePark]

are you not familiar with guerrilla warfare?

[wopphil]

are you not familiar with guerrilla warfare?

No. I have heard of drone welfare, but I had no idea we were using guerillas now. That is some cool shit. Speaking of shit, do they throw theirs at the enemy?

[Lhalo]

No. I have heard of drone welfare, but I had no idea we were using guerillas now. That is some cool shit. Speaking of shit, do they throw theirs at the enemy?

 

He said "gorilla". Not "guerrilla". "Guer", "go".

 

Huge difference! Huge difference!

 

[DowningRules]

I work on a Saudi air base. I watch their planes fly out loaded and come back empty. The same thing happens in UAE, Jordan, Egypt, Bahrain. Suicide bombers have started killing Saudi border patrols. They fight this battle everyday. Have been for months. They have even gone on record as saying that it's an Arab problem and they will solve it.

 

I'll defer to you on this matter for sure.  I'm not there and don't see what you see.  What do they put on these planes?  Is it all supplies or are their any troops?  I doubt Saudi will put boots on the ground.  That's what we're for.  My Arab friends tell me the Saudi royals obviously don't want the ISIS thing to get out of hand.  But they doubt the Saudis would engage themselves in combat. 

[InsideThePark]

I'm sure he'll say he was joking like he was about India being in the Middle East.

[Tank]

Charlie Hebdo is going to put the Prophet Mohammed on their cover again.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/mohammed-holds-je-suis-charlie-sign-charlie-hebdo-215647190.html

 

completely agree with their right to continue to print like they always have.

 

i question the wisdom of doing this so soon after the massacre.

 

i'm really conflicted over this issue.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Yes, because we did so well at "fixing this problem" in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Apples and oranges.

ISIS is out in the open. They are fighting conventionally. There were ZERO instances of the insurgency in either Iraq or Afghanistan where they said 'here we are' where they werent introduced to 72 virgins immediately.

People need to understand the white gloves that get worn in counterinsurgency. If the people youre fighting are mixed in with the people youre trying to be in bed with (which in any police action / low intensity conflict is the civilain populace), you cant fight a conventional war.

Politics aside, there is nothing out there from stopping us from doing what would need to be done if we chose to. If we chose to, we could unleash any of our armored divisions with orders to clear out every person in any city in the ME, and those in the way would have nothing to stop it. If for some crazy reason they did, they would have nothing to stop the 70 B-52s on line dropping a mathematical pattern of general purpose bombs that leave nothing organic left over.

But thats obviously not an option.

There is no doubt in my mind we could clear out all areas ISIS has taken over. But the American people are done with the wars (understandable). It would be even harder to convince them to go back to war to help a people (iraq) who werent big on us when we were there the last time.

[gotbeer]

There is no doubt in my mind we could clear out all areas ISIS has taken over. But the American people are done with the wars (understandable). It would be even harder to convince them to go back to war to help a people (iraq) who werent big on us when we were there the last time.

 

The problem is, that after we take it over, we will eventually leave.  And they will take it back.  In Japan and German and even Korea, we never really left.  We still have bases in at least 2 if not 3 places.  Vietnam, we left, Iraq we left, Afghanistan we just left.  Of course Japan, Germany, and Korea benefited greatly.  

 

ISIS, we could clear out Iraq, and they would just run to Syria or Pakistan or Turkey or Egypt or Libya or some other place in Africa.  And wait till we left.  

[Blarg]

You are describing cockroaches.

[Lou]

The problem is, that after we take it over, we will eventually leave.  And they will take it back.  In Japan and German and even Korea, we never really left.  We still have bases in at least 2 if not 3 places.  Vietnam, we left, Iraq we left, Afghanistan we just left.  Of course Japan, Germany, and Korea benefited greatly.  

 

ISIS, we could clear out Iraq, and they would just run to Syria or Pakistan or Turkey or Egypt or Libya or some other place in Africa.  And wait till we left.  

 

they don't wait for us to leave to take it back.   Like recon said, we could clean house if we decided that's

what we want to do.  However, that will never happen (nor am i advocating a total cleanse)

In fact, we'll bend over backwards to ensure the rest of the world doesn't see us as a bully.

 

 

the US is the new France

[arch stanton]

I'll defer to you on this matter for sure.  I'm not there and don't see what you see.  What do they put on these planes?  Is it all supplies or are their any troops?  I doubt Saudi will put boots on the ground.  That's what we're for.  My Arab friends tell me the Saudi royals obviously don't want the ISIS thing to get out of hand.  But they doubt the Saudis would engage themselves in combat. 

 

 

No troops yet. This is still sovereign territory of Iraq and Syria, 2 countries they don't have great relationships with. As far as being on the ground, it would be like hunting Viet Cong in "Nam. They don't wear "Shoot me I'm ISIS" thobes.

Edited January 13, 2015 by arch stanton

[TobiasFunke]

Yup, no will to stop other Muslims. Here is an article I found when I was actually looking for an article that the Saudi people were questioning fighting against other Muslims. While we are bothered by beheadings.

When It Comes to Beheadings, ISIS Has Nothing Over Saudi Arabia

I think Saudi Arabia and the other Middle East countries know they are on a thin line right now. ISIS may actually be more in tune with the 90%ers, and are fed up with the 10%ers. Just think about that for a second. And it has been brought up in this thread numerous times. What does the middle east really offer to the world besides oil? Well, oil is the 10%ers. Because it's making the sheiks very rich, but leaves rags for everyone else. So if ISIS means that the 90% might be better off, ISIS has that following that we in the west just can't figure out. Because as brutality goes, it seems they are the same as those we say should fight against ISIS.

Now add in falling oil prices. Their entire economy is based on oil. Think if in the U.S., the entire economy was based on oil. What would happen is a major cut in all services. What would happen in the US if 50% of all services got cut? This is the dilemma that is facing the Middle East right now. And ISIS is ready to step in.

That's a very well thought out alternative point gb