Paris Shooting: 'Twelve people killed'

[ten ocho recon scout]

But if I hated California to the point of wanting to kill innocents and myself, I'd move to Arkansas without hesitation.

i think youd thirst for blood more once surrounded by arkansasians though.

[AngelsLongBall]

i think youd thirst for blood more once surrounded by arkansasians though.

Or his cousin Edited January 11, 2015 by AngelsLongBall

[Tank]

What I don't understand (particularly with respect to those living in Europe) is why if the Muslims hate the West so much, they don't choose to go live in the Middle East somewhere. It's literally a plane flight away, and they'd be surrounded by people who believe similarly to them.

 

i agree with you, but i think what we see happening is their perceived mission to rid the world of infidels. 

 

what we see with these extremists is that they have absolutely no interest in living a life that's productive. they contribute nothing to the world other than to defend their religion in the most aggressive, violent way possible. they don't make anything, they don't produce anything, and muslim nations tend to live in very poor conditions (outside of the oil producers). 

[Blarg]

But if I hated California to the point of wanting to kill innocents and myself, I'd move to Arkansas without hesitation.

 

Naw, probably just the IE, less traffic and just as crappy as Arkansas but way closer to the beach.

[arch stanton]

So nobody opened the links from my last posts? Were you too busy demanding that your gardener answer for the cartel murders a couple hundred miles to your south? The people of Syria and Iraq are busy wondering why Europe spawned so many angry young brown citizens and then shipped them off to their part of the world to fight with IS or Al Qaeda. 

 

I understand that grouping up the 1.3 billion Mooslims and making them into the "they" that's fighting our "us" is super convenient but I also realize it's a headline grabbing chickenshit cop out.

[RallyMo]

So nobody opened the links from my last posts? Were you too busy demanding that your gardener answer for the cartel murders a couple hundred miles to your south? The people of Syria and Iraq are busy wondering why Europe spawned so many angry young brown citizens and then shipped them off to their part of the world to fight with IS or Al Qaeda.

I understand that grouping up the 1.3 billion Mooslims and making them into the "they" that's fighting our "us" is super convenient but I also realize it's a headline grabbing chickenshit cop out.

What do you know about this? I doubt you even know one Muslim. You clearly don't have as much contact with Muslims as the other participants in this thread. Just stop it already.

[DowningRules]

So nobody opened the links from my last posts? Were you too busy demanding that your gardener answer for the cartel murders a couple hundred miles to your south? The people of Syria and Iraq are busy wondering why Europe spawned so many angry young brown citizens and then shipped them off to their part of the world to fight with IS or Al Qaeda. 

 

I understand that grouping up the 1.3 billion Mooslims and making them into the "they" that's fighting our "us" is super convenient but I also realize it's a headline grabbing chickenshit cop out.

 

Not sure I understand how it's a copout when the singular common denominator is that the entire "they" block is mooslim.  Facts are not copouts.  Facts can be inconvenient and not always accommodating especially in matters of war and violence.  

 

And facts are rarely, if ever, forgiving.  I have chosen not to ignore the facts associated with a religion where perhaps only 10% of that religion's believers want me to die for being a non-believer.  What is 10% of 1.3 billion?  The fact is, mathematically, the odds of me dying at the hands of "they" is much greater than me dying at the hands of any other "theys" who are not mooslim.  

[gotbeer]

i agree with you, but i think what we see happening is their perceived mission to rid the world of infidels. 

 

what we see with these extremists is that they have absolutely no interest in living a life that's productive. they contribute nothing to the world other than to defend their religion in the most aggressive, violent way possible. they don't make anything, they don't produce anything, and muslim nations tend to live in very poor conditions (outside of the oil producers). 

 

As long as things like this happen, the perception of difference between extremists and regular peace loving Muslims will continue to be grouped together.  You look at governments that are not "extreme", and you find that they are closer to "extreme" than moderate.

 

Egypt student gets 3-year jail term for atheism

[arch stanton]

10% is a nice round number, eh? The odds are greater that you'll die at the hands of a cellphone worshipper on the 405. Or a rosary toting cartel member.

[DowningRules]

10% is a nice round number, eh? The odds are greater that you'll die at the hands of a cellphone worshipper on the 405. Or a rosary toting cartel member.

 

The actual estimate for muslim extremists is given at between 6%-10%.  Pew Research has had a difficult time with such a survey, but that is the general intelligence.  

 

And the actual number of muslims in the world is 1.6 billion (not 1.3 billion), with 60% under the age of 30.  So, no, I'm not as concerned with the "rosary toting cartel member" (nice swipe at those extremist, killer Catholics, btw).  And the cellphone worshipper is not trying to kill me because I'm not a like-minded cell phone worshiper.  

 

The Neville Chamberlain Fan Club is now accepting applications.

[Blarg]

So nobody opened the links from my last posts? Were you too busy demanding that your gardener answer for the cartel murders a couple hundred miles to your south? The people of Syria and Iraq are busy wondering why Europe spawned so many angry young brown citizens and then shipped them off to their part of the world to fight with IS or Al Qaeda. 

 

I understand that grouping up the 1.3 billion Mooslims and making them into the "they" that's fighting our "us" is super convenient but I also realize it's a headline grabbing chickenshit cop out.

 

I read both links and many of the comments. It shows there is the moderate majority of Islamic peoples being represented by the radicals and unable to move far enough away from them to be considered non threatening.

 

It is difficult for the Western cultures to accept their staunch stand on limited free speech, it is difficult for their culture to accept the lack of decorum and respect that our free speech allows. However the moderates on both sides don't feel the need to force their opinions on each other by gunpoint.

 

The comments section reads like most comment sections. There is radicalism in the responses that only helps widen the divide.

[arch stanton]

So's the Chicken Little Fan Club. With all the ways we've learned to spy and collect data don't you think it would be practical to try to narrow it down a little? Instead of blaming Muslims, which by your own data means you are grouping in a quarter of the world's population who have no part in this, why not look for ways to identify the ones who are actual threats? And maybe protect the obvious targets?

 

The brothers who killed the Charlie Hebdo people were on US and British watch lists and on the British no fly list. The office they stormed into had been attacked before and was under enough threat to warrant a full time body guard for the editor but no security at the building. One of the brothers and the guy at the grocery had already done time. They were legit targets of your Muslim scorn. Seems to me some outrage should be directed at our supposed protectors.

[arch stanton]

I read both links and many of the comments. It shows there is the moderate majority of Islamic peoples being represented by the radicals and unable to move far enough away from them to be considered non threatening.

 

It is difficult for the Western cultures to accept their staunch stand on limited free speech, it is difficult for their culture to accept the lack of decorum and respect that our free speech allows. However the moderates on both sides don't feel the need to force their opinions on each other by gunpoint.

 

The comments section reads like most comment sections. There is radicalism in the responses that only helps widen the divide.

The point of the articles is to show that even the Muslims in their own countries are in a constant battle against these assholes. At least you made the distinction between Islamist and Muslim. That's a good start.

[DowningRules]

So's the Chicken Little Fan Club. With all the ways we've learned to spy and collect data don't you think it would be practical to try to narrow it down a little? Instead of blaming Muslims, which by your own data means you are grouping in a quarter of the world's population who have no part in this, why not look for ways to identify the ones who are actual threats? And maybe protect the obvious targets?

 

The brothers who killed the Charlie Hebdo people were on US and British watch lists and on the British no fly list. The office they stormed into had been attacked before and was under enough threat to warrant a full time body guard for the editor but no security at the building. One of the brothers and the guy at the grocery had already done time. They were legit targets of your Muslim scorn. Seems to me some outrage should be directed at our supposed protectors.

 

Nope.  There should not be a need for protectors.  I'm not going to blame them for a problem they did not create.  Respectfully, your straw men are falling one by one. 

[Guest]

So's the Chicken Little Fan Club. With all the ways we've learned to spy and collect data don't you think it would be practical to try to narrow it down a little? Instead of blaming Muslims, which by your own data means you are grouping in a quarter of the world's population who have no part in this, why not look for ways to identify the ones who are actual threats? And maybe protect the obvious targets?

 

The brothers who killed the Charlie Hebdo people were on US and British watch lists and on the British no fly list. The office they stormed into had been attacked before and was under enough threat to warrant a full time body guard for the editor but no security at the building. One of the brothers and the guy at the grocery had already done time. They were legit targets of your Muslim scorn. Seems to me some outrage should be directed at our supposed protectors.

The Charlie Hebdo offices were firebombed back when I was living in Paris in 2011. I'm pretty sure they had police protection, but how can that prevent dudes with AK47s? And how exactly can they protect obvious targets when everyone and everything is a potential target? Seems like your anger is misguided.

[arch stanton]

Nope.  There should not be a need for protectors.  I'm not going to blame them for a problem they did not create.  Respectfully, your straw men are falling one by one. 

You seem to think I'm defending the bad guys. I'm just questioning your method of singling them out. And since the groundwork had already been done in singling them out, wondering why they so easily managed to do what they did.

[arch stanton]

The Charlie Hebdo offices were firebombed back when I was living in Paris in 2011. I'm pretty sure they had police protection, but how can that prevent dudes with AK47s? And how exactly can they protect obvious targets when everyone and everything is a potential target? Seems like your anger is misguided.

The only police protection was the one assigned to the editor. Not even any entry security other than a cypher lock.

[Lhalo]

What's amusing is the fact that The National Front gain the most from these idiotic attacks. They'll probably win big in the next French elections.

Congrats al Qaida in Yemen. They're quickly infuriating entire continents.

[InsideThePark]

In case anyone is wondering, Hamas has condemned the attacks.

[Guest]

In case anyone is wondering, Hamas has condemned the attacks.

How wonderfully hypocritical of them.

[InsideThePark]

"They" is an awesome word.

"They" must be held responsible.

[wopphil]

Here is what most people see with respect to the Muslim world, and why so many people are prejudice against them as a group:

- as a group, their human rights records suck, and they treat women horribly;

- they largely are not democratic, and seemingly incapable of embracing democratic principles;

- they don't embrace, and indeed reject, basic values that so many others believe in, including free speech, etc.

- as a group, they are extremely intolerant.

- and worst of all, they seemingly don't reject extremism and aren't willing to progress.

One of the things I find so amazing is that the same people in this country (and on this board) who are so quick to denounce the "neo-cons" and anyone who doesn't embrace a liberal agenda, are the same ones who constantly defend the Muslim world and their extreme way of life. Hypocrisy has no boundaries, I guess.

[arch stanton]

What seems to have no bounds is your amazing ability to compartmentalize people.

[wopphil]

What seems to have no bounds is your amazing ability to compartmentalize people.

You do the exact same thing my friend, except you think your opinion is superior because you believe it is the more tolerant opinion.

[mtangelsfan]

Here is what most people see with respect to the Muslim world, and why so many people are prejudice against them as a group:

- as a group, their human rights records suck, and they treat women horribly;

- they largely are not democratic, and seemingly incapable of embracing democratic principles;

- they don't embrace, and indeed reject, basic values that so many others believe in, including free speech, etc.

- as a group, they are extremely intolerant.

- and worst of all, they seemingly don't reject extremism and aren't willing to progress.

One of the things I find so amazing is that the same people in this country (and on this board) who are so quick to denounce the "neo-cons" and anyone who doesn't embrace a liberal agenda, are the same ones who constantly defend the Muslim world and their extreme way of life. Hypocrisy has no boundaries, I guess.

 

That is an incredibly large brush you are painting with.  I would argue that it is more cultural than anything.  West African Muslims, East Asian Muslims do not act that way, not at all.