Possible 2016 Starting Rotation

[Hollyw00d]

What's funny? He has done some absolute horrible moves as our GM, some which are close to franchise crippling.

That's nuts

[Troll Daddy]

To me there all just prospects for now until further notice. I'll take my chances with CJ over any of them.

Edited December 16, 2014 by Troll Daddy

[HaloMilliVanilli]

*Their

 

Haha.  Couldn't help myself. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Wink wink

[OregonLAA]

Name me all the bad moves

[ELEVEN]

Garrett Richards, Jered Weaver, Matt Shoemaker, Andrew Heaney, Tyler Skaggs with Sean Newcomb, Hector Santiago & Sum Yung Gui also vying for a spot out of ST.

With Weaver possibly gone after 2016, Matt Shoemaker would be the oldest on our staff.

Excited to see Newcomb, Heaney and Skaggs all in the rotation at the same time in '17.

Hey, get a load of Sum Yung Gui... Edited December 16, 2014 by ELEVEN

[Erstad Grit]

That's nuts

 

Hamilton 5 years 125 million

Pujols 10 years 240 million

CJ Wilson 5 years 77.5 million

Blanton 2 years 15 million

Dumping Santana who has been terrific

Trading Walden for Hanson

Not offering arbitration on numerous players

 

That was enough for a firing IMO. 

 

Since then he has been killing it. 

[Sherlock31]

Name me all the bad moves

The famous Failed 4?

 

Madson, Hanson, Burnett and Joe Blanton

[Erstad Grit]

As much as I would love to stay young and cheap in the rotation, it would hurt to lose Weaver. He took a discount last time so I hope we pay him again.

In the playoffs, we saw he was still capable of leading this rotation. He's a gamer

 

I agree. I would be all for overpaying him to be a #4 type pitcher. He career could very easily mimic a style of Maddux. 

[Oz27]

Weav is awesome but after 2016 he will be 34 I think. His velocity continues to dip each year and so to does his consistency and production. Don't think it would be wise to give him another extension. Continue building with the young arms

Jered's decline is pretty hard to argue with when you look at the numbers. I think he'll be a perfectly fine mid rotation pitcher, at least in 2015, but it's hard to see him being effective much after 2016.

[OregonLAA]

Hamilton 5 years 125 million

Pujols 10 years 240 million

CJ Wilson 5 years 77.5 million

Blanton 2 years 15 million

Dumping Santana who has been terrific

Trading Walden for Hanson

Not offering arbitration on numerous players

 

That was enough for a firing IMO. 

 

Since then he has been killing it.

Zero problem with Pujols. Hasn't hurt us in any way. In 7 years, if he's still playing, maybe. But let's get there first

Wilson? Came pretty cheap compared to what guys are getting and I bet he's moved

Blanton is already gone

Stop it with the Santana thing. Dude was the most hit or miss pitcher I've ever watched. And our rotation seems to be fine

Walden for Hanson? Who cares. We have a deep bullpen and Walden can't stick with a team

Hamilton I don't love, but oh well. I doubt he plays his while contract here

Point being, it's Arte's money. If he gets sick of playing for players who are no longer Angels I won't blame him. But Jerry put together the best record in baseball last year and we are deep as we have ever been on the pitching side of things. We have lots of control and lots of cheap options and now have a little flexibility with money in regards to the tax.

He has killed it the last two offseasons and has been one of the top GM's in baseball. So no, I don't think crippling is correct

[Erstad Grit]

The famous Failed 4?

 

Madson, Hanson, Burnett and Joe Blanton

 

I don't blame him for Burnett . That deal looked solid and sometimes crap happens.

 

Madson was a gamble that just didn't play out. It's not like we paid him a lot.

 

His other deals were just really bad. 

[Curmudgeonly]

Who is Sum Yung Gui? An Internet search did not provide answers.

[Butcher'd]

Hamilton 5 years 125 million

Pujols 10 years 240 million

CJ Wilson 5 years 77.5 million

Blanton 2 years 15 million

Dumping Santana who has been terrific

Trading Walden for Hanson

Not offering arbitration on numerous players

 

That was enough for a firing IMO. 

 

Since then he has been killing it. 

 

To me, Pujols is on Arte. Hamilton could be too, but we don't really know

 

Wilson, Blanton, Hanson are all definitely Dipoto's fault. I don't blame him for letting Ervin Walk

 

In his tenure, Arte Moreno has been a bigger problem. Last two years things are much better

Edited December 16, 2014 by Butcher'd

[nikkachez]

*Their

 

Haha.  Couldn't help myself. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

*Wink wink

....They're

[IEAngelsfan]

Who is Sum Yung Gui? An Internet search did not provide answers.

Your search got websites, just not the ones you were looking for.

[bloodbrother]

Ervin had what? an option that if picked up, would have been paying him $13 million. This is after he had an ERA well over 5. You're really going to blame Dipoto for NOT picking up that option?  The fact that hes turned it around and pitched well since then is just looking back in hindsight stuff.

Edited December 16, 2014 by bloodbrother

[Docwaukee]

Dipoto had one bad offseason.  

 

His first year he added Wilson to a staff that was touted as one the best in baseball.  One that he inherited and it promptly fell apart in the first month of the 2012 season.  The move to bring in Greinke was panned but what he gave up hasn't really amounted to much.  Segura still has potential but after a great 1/2 season he's been pretty weak.  Although he gets a pass because of the horrible loss of his son.  

But CJ has been CJ for the past 3 years.  He's given about what was expected.  Maybe a bit less.

Pujols is on Arte for sure.  A franchise move and his sharp decline so early in the deal is unprecedented for an inner circle hall of famer.  

But the 2012 team won 89.  

 

The following year he had to rebuild 3/5ths of a rotation and an entire bullpen.  A mess he didn't create.  Santana was arguably the worst SP in baseball in 2012 and he wasn't worth the option he was owed.  His success since isn't a mystery, but to keep him around would have been more risky than not.  

The addition of Hamilton was all Arte and left JD with very little payroll to accomplish the above.  I am fairly sure the reigns were being pulled in regards to what he was allowed to do in trade.  But the Blanton, Hanson, and Madsen moves were horrific no doubt.  He had other options and chose poorly.  The Burnett move was reasonable and didn't work out.  

 

I think last year he was given more freedom to do what he needed and it worked out.   

 

This year we'll see but what he has done so far is sound.

 

My one major nit aside from who he chose to man the rotation last year was his neglect of the bullpen for 3 offseasons and 2.5 regular seasons.  He went saber cheap at it was the achilles heel of the team until he decided that it mattered and then the team took off.  

 

But he and his staff have consistently shown the ability to do something very important and that is evaluate talent that isn't generally well known.  Both with the Halos and players on other teams.  While his track record for bringing in a known quantity hasn't been superlative, what he gives up hasn't done much, and what he keeps does.  And when he moves a known entity for a lesser known player, those lesser known players have succeeded far more than the players he's moved.  Some of that is yet to be determined.  

 

After the 2012 season when the rotation fell apart, he started 2013 with Weaver, Wilson, Vargas, Blanton and Hanson in the rotation with depth of Williams, Billy Buckner, Barry Enright, Michael Roth, Matt Shoemaker, Daniel Stange, and Garret Richards.  Our top 20 prospects had Cam Bedrosian, Nick Mutz, Daniel Tillman, Nick Maronde, AJ Schugel, Michael Clevinger, RJ Alvarez, and Austin Wood.

 

Fast forward to the 2014 offseason, and our rotation is Richards, Weaver, Shoemaker, Santiago, Wilson, with depth of Skaggs, Heaney, Tropeano, Jose Alvarez, Rucinski, and Newcomb.  And our top 20 prospect list has maybe 4-5 guys that were present when Dipoto was hired.  

 

Not to mention he remade the entire pen in 1/2 a season, and it's stocked with depth.  Plus, the system has a bunch of major league capable arms that could find their way to the pen if they don't succeed as starters.  

 

This org was in real trouble after the 2013 season.  No farm.  No pitching.  No international presence.  Where they have come in 1yr is pretty amazing.   

[Butcher'd]

They need position players now. Baldoquin should be a nice start. But the infield depth is still weak. 

[shellback]

was sum yung gui's brother sum ting wong a dodger spot reliver last year?

[Angelsjunky]

It continues to baffle me that some folks can't look at Dipoto and see pros and cons. As Niels Bohr once said, "The opposite of a fact is a falsehood, but the opposite of one profound truth may be another profound truth." In other words it isn't either/or with Jerry - either he sucks or is great. He's made some really good moves but also some really bad ones.

 

So yeah, SoWhat, Hollywood, and OregonLAA, Jerry's made some terrible moves. Even if we blame Arte 100% for the albatrosses of Pujols and Hamilton--both of which certainly do inhibit Jerry's room to craft a good team--then you've still got a whole list of poor choices that a couple folks have made.

 

I was very critical of Jerry about a year ago. But he's had a great last year and I think that, all things tolled, he's a good GM. A great one? Not yet, but there's potential. But I also don't think we can entirely exempt him from the Pujols and Hamilton contracts. Part of a GM's job is to convince/rein in an overseeing owner like Arte Moreno. Notice that the Yankees returned to dominance once George Steinbrenner stopped meddling so much. Owners rarely know how to build a good team, and hopefully Arte's learned his lesson.

 

But again, there's been marked improvement. Whatever happened in the front office, Jerry's been on a roll and I'm glad he wasn't axed. But I'm also not willing to whitewash the past mistakes just because he's made some good moves recently.

[ELEVEN]

Dipoto had one bad offseason.

His first year he added Wilson to a staff that was touted as one the best in baseball. One that he inherited and it promptly fell apart in the first month of the 2012 season. The move to bring in Greinke was panned but what he gave up hasn't really amounted to much. Segura still has potential but after a great 1/2 season he's been pretty weak. Although he gets a pass because of the horrible loss of his son.

But CJ has been CJ for the past 3 years. He's given about what was expected. Maybe a bit less.

Pujols is on Arte for sure. A franchise move and his sharp decline so early in the deal is unprecedented for an inner circle hall of famer.

But the 2012 team won 89.

The following year he had to rebuild 3/5ths of a rotation and an entire bullpen. A mess he didn't create. Santana was arguably the worst SP in baseball in 2012 and he wasn't worth the option he was owed. His success since isn't a mystery, but to keep him around would have been more risky than not.

The addition of Hamilton was all Arte and left JD with very little payroll to accomplish the above. I am fairly sure the reigns were being pulled in regards to what he was allowed to do in trade. But the Blanton, Hanson, and Madsen moves were horrific no doubt. He had other options and chose poorly. The Burnett move was reasonable and didn't work out.

I think last year he was given more freedom to do what he needed and it worked out.

This year we'll see but what he has done so far is sound.

My one major nit aside from who he chose to man the rotation last year was his neglect of the bullpen for 3 offseasons and 2.5 regular seasons. He went saber cheap at it was the achilles heel of the team until he decided that it mattered and then the team took off.

But he and his staff have consistently shown the ability to do something very important and that is evaluate talent that isn't generally well known. Both with the Halos and players on other teams. While his track record for bringing in a known quantity hasn't been superlative, what he gives up hasn't done much, and what he keeps does. And when he moves a known entity for a lesser known player, those lesser known players have succeeded far more than the players he's moved. Some of that is yet to be determined.

After the 2012 season when the rotation fell apart, he started 2013 with Weaver, Wilson, Vargas, Blanton and Hanson in the rotation with depth of Williams, Billy Buckner, Barry Enright, Michael Roth, Matt Shoemaker, Daniel Stange, and Garret Richards. Our top 20 prospects had Cam Bedrosian, Nick Mutz, Daniel Tillman, Nick Maronde, AJ Schugel, Michael Clevinger, RJ Alvarez, and Austin Wood.

Fast forward to the 2014 offseason, and our rotation is Richards, Weaver, Shoemaker, Santiago, Wilson, with depth of Skaggs, Heaney, Tropeano, Jose Alvarez, Rucinski, and Newcomb. And our top 20 prospect list has maybe 4-5 guys that were present when Dipoto was hired.

Not to mention he remade the entire pen in 1/2 a season, and it's stocked with depth. Plus, the system has a bunch of major league capable arms that could find their way to the pen if they don't succeed as starters.

This org was in real trouble after the 2013 season. No farm. No pitching. No international presence. Where they have come in 1yr is pretty amazing.

Best offseason analysis I've read so far.

[ELEVEN]

was sum yung gui's brother sum ting wong a dodger spot reliver last year?

Bang Ding Ow

[ELEVEN]

Please don't Bohr us

[shellback]

richard feynman, noted baseball fan and physicist once stated- statistics are like people, if you torture them long enough they'll say anything.

[Chuck]

Dipoto had one bad offseason.

His first year he added Wilson to a staff that was touted as one the best in baseball. One that he inherited and it promptly fell apart in the first month of the 2012 season. The move to bring in Greinke was panned but what he gave up hasn't really amounted to much. Segura still has potential but after a great 1/2 season he's been pretty weak. Although he gets a pass because of the horrible loss of his son.

But CJ has been CJ for the past 3 years. He's given about what was expected. Maybe a bit less.

Pujols is on Arte for sure. A franchise move and his sharp decline so early in the deal is unprecedented for an inner circle hall of famer.

But the 2012 team won 89.

The following year he had to rebuild 3/5ths of a rotation and an entire bullpen. A mess he didn't create. Santana was arguably the worst SP in baseball in 2012 and he wasn't worth the option he was owed. His success since isn't a mystery, but to keep him around would have been more risky than not.

The addition of Hamilton was all Arte and left JD with very little payroll to accomplish the above. I am fairly sure the reigns were being pulled in regards to what he was allowed to do in trade. But the Blanton, Hanson, and Madsen moves were horrific no doubt. He had other options and chose poorly. The Burnett move was reasonable and didn't work out.

I think last year he was given more freedom to do what he needed and it worked out.

This year we'll see but what he has done so far is sound.

My one major nit aside from who he chose to man the rotation last year was his neglect of the bullpen for 3 offseasons and 2.5 regular seasons. He went saber cheap at it was the achilles heel of the team until he decided that it mattered and then the team took off.

But he and his staff have consistently shown the ability to do something very important and that is evaluate talent that isn't generally well known. Both with the Halos and players on other teams. While his track record for bringing in a known quantity hasn't been superlative, what he gives up hasn't done much, and what he keeps does. And when he moves a known entity for a lesser known player, those lesser known players have succeeded far more than the players he's moved. Some of that is yet to be determined.

After the 2012 season when the rotation fell apart, he started 2013 with Weaver, Wilson, Vargas, Blanton and Hanson in the rotation with depth of Williams, Billy Buckner, Barry Enright, Michael Roth, Matt Shoemaker, Daniel Stange, and Garret Richards. Our top 20 prospects had Cam Bedrosian, Nick Mutz, Daniel Tillman, Nick Maronde, AJ Schugel, Michael Clevinger, RJ Alvarez, and Austin Wood.

Fast forward to the 2014 offseason, and our rotation is Richards, Weaver, Shoemaker, Santiago, Wilson, with depth of Skaggs, Heaney, Tropeano, Jose Alvarez, Rucinski, and Newcomb. And our top 20 prospect list has maybe 4-5 guys that were present when Dipoto was hired.

Not to mention he remade the entire pen in 1/2 a season, and it's stocked with depth. Plus, the system has a bunch of major league capable arms that could find their way to the pen if they don't succeed as starters.

This org was in real trouble after the 2013 season. No farm. No pitching. No international presence. Where they have come in 1yr is pretty amazing.

Spot on, Doc.