Can Frieri be Trusted in any Situation?

[mopuddin]

This was the perfect situation to pitch him in, unless we plan on having a game where we are trailing by five runs soon? He has to pitch to get back to whatever he can be and he is better than this.

 

bs. the dude has had several opportunities to pick it up this year. he hasn't. time to go. how many times can he be dropped lower in the pen only to be brought back to closer and blow it? btw, the close spot is overrated and a myth. f closers. it's an imaginary role.

Edited June 27, 2014 by mopuddin

[CaliAngel]

I would not put Frieri in during any situation where the lead is less than 3, and I definitely would not put the guy in a closing role ever again.

 

He's had his chances, he's always making it a nailbiter, it's time to move on.

[tomsred]

games like today show why save pct doesnt matter.   he didnt get a blown save, but he nearly blew the game.  surely you agree that blowing a 5 run lead is worse than blowing a 3 run lead?  he blew a 4 run lead in atlanta as well which didnt count toward his save pct, so why do you care so much about save pct...

 

I care only because it shows that he was effective for much of his career with the Angels.  He used to have something we badly need, effective relief.  I also care because if it can be fixed rather quickly, we don't have to rely as heavily on Dipoto to strike a deal or deals to get relief pitching in here asap.  Dipoto isn't dealing from a position of strength in finding additional outside relievers, and the chances are very high that I and others won't like what he might have to give up to get effective relievers in here.  I don't want to see this team crippled elsewhere just to get a couple of questionably effective relievers obtained.

 

I do agree that it is looking highly unlikely that a fix to Frieri's problems can be found quickly and easily, but I'm not ready to see him lost to us forever because he's run into this period of ineffectiveness.  This team has cast away players before that suddenly find themselves to be effective elsewhere.  It's a terribly wasteful process to ditch players, and replace them, every time that go into a a slump or extended skid.

[tomsred]

I would not put Frieri in during any situation where the lead is less than 3, and I definitely would not put the guy in a closing role ever again.

 

He's had his chances, he's always making it a nailbiter, it's time to move on.

 

The facts do not support the point that he is always making it a nail biter.  there are games, even this year, where he has closed out games 1-2-3.  I don't think this is a Scott Kazmir situation, possibly, but I doubt it.  I do agree with you that he shouldn't be in a closing role for quite a while.  He wasn't put in a closing role today.  I think the coaching staff was trying to see if he could gain some confidence, finish the game, and use that experience to work him back into some relief role later this year.  They need to find out what can he contribute by placing him into a situation of some level of stress, then that will determine how much and when can we use him in the future.  He flunked his test today, but that doesn't mean he didn't learn something about himself, and that the coaching staff didn't learn something about him.  And for that matter, the GM and his staff didn't learn something about how they should proceed.  I really don't care if we won today 6-1, or as we did 6-4.  A win is a win, period.

 

Oh, and by the way, I think there are things to be learned about Smith as well.  He doesn't handle inherited runners very well, too many are scoring.

Edited June 27, 2014 by tomsred

[tomsred]

By the way, even though I don't believe that Frieri is a far removed as Kazmir once was, there is a lot to be learned that probably applies to Fieri by reading the thread and article entitled "How Scott Kazmir Came Back" thread.  It's a long article, but pretty darn interesting if you invest the time to read it all.

[Docwaukee]

While I don't think save % tells the whole story, it does give some insight into whether a pitcher is capable of working without the net that every other reliever but the closer gets.  There is something to that.  You don't want to waste one of your best options by leaving them to warm up and be a backup plan.  There has to be a last guy out.  The manager has to be able to give him some leeway to work out of a jam instead of bringing in whoever is left to try and clean up a mess.  Who's left to come in for a middle reliever is potentially better.  Who'd left to clean up for your best guy by nature isn't.  

[Guest]

This was the perfect situation to pitch him in, unless we plan on having a game where we are trailing by five runs soon? He has to pitch to get back to whatever he can be and he is better than this.

Good point. However, Frieri has been experiencing the same problems from day 1, and he cannot be trusted in a playoff environment (at any capacity). 

 

I'd agree with your point if it were any other pitcher, though. 

[Guest]

Here are some interesting career statistics on the top 5 Angels closers (when ranked by number of saves).  Their career save percentage is shown in parenthesis.  It doesn't support any decision on how to currently use Frieri (this is a what have you done recently, and how will you perform in the future, discussion).

 

1.  Percival 316 saves (86.3%)

2.  Rodriquez 208 saves (86.3%)

3.  Harvey 126 saves (81.8%)

4.  Frieri 71 saves (87.7%)

5.  Fuentes 71 saves (86.5%)

I know it isn't your intention, but the statistic you're citing is incredibly misleading–and useless when discussing Frieri. 

Frieri can get a save, but he'll give up 3 runs in the process. The only reason he still pitches is because the Angels score plenty of runs giving him room for screwing up. 

Percentages, in general, are misleading. Frieri could 

[tomsred]

I know it isn't your intention, but the statistic you're citing is incredibly misleading–and useless when discussing Frieri. 

Frieri can get a save, but he'll give up 3 runs in the process. The only reason he still pitches is because the Angels score plenty of runs giving him room for screwing up. 

Percentages, in general, are misleading. Frieri could 

Oh, I agree with you, you make good points.  I am fascinated with looking at the numbers, and seeing that virtually all (except Mariano) of them who last multiple years pretty much end up with the same career save percentage, mid to high 80% range.  Everyone (except short term experiments) tends to blow 15% of the time.  Yet fans tend to place expectations that have only been achieved by a very small percentage of closers, like Mariano.  He actually did ruin it for all the other relievers.

Edited June 27, 2014 by tomsred

[ItzTacosYerrp]

Career 3.1 era for ernasty

Hes just not himself this yr

Unfortunate because he would be a big part of our success

[tomsred]

Career 3.1 era for ernasty

Hes just not himself this yr

Unfortunate because he would be a big part of our success

 

It has probably also cost him a lot of money.  He would have been in line this year for an extended contract if he would have had a decent year.  Maybe that's in his head as well.  It's costing him a chance to solidify his family's future.

[NachoPop]

When he's good hes very good, but when he's bad he's soooooooooooooooooooooo bad.

He had a 1.46 era in May so he definitely can be good. Hopefully he figures it out.

[Homebrewer]

His ERA was over 5 in the second half of last year, and near the halfway point of this season, it's over 6.

A year of decline and it continues to get worse.

[arch stanton]

He has one fewer home run allowed that walk allowed. Hitters know he'll throw a fastball for a strike sooner rather than later. If he can't learn to mix it up he's done as an effective major league pitcher.

[ukyah]

He has one fewer home run allowed that walk allowed. Hitters know he'll throw a fastball for a strike sooner rather than later. If he can't learn to mix it up he's done as an effective major league pitcher.

 

although it reads as inciting, there's a lot of truth to this post. he's got to get his faceball movement back and he needs that legitimate second pitch. is he throwing the four seamer or is it that the 2 seamer is just flat? i don't get to watch to many games, i'm forced to check in on the gameday.

Edited June 27, 2014 by ukyah

[Hollyw00d]

the league has adjusted to him.   he hasn't adjusted back, yet.  Or maybe he can't, its hard to adjust when you only throw one pitch.

 

he badly needs an effective second pitch.   And a new brain.

[Stradling]

He needs to do whatever pitchers do to get the movement back on his fastball. It isn't tailing away on a lefty (or in on a righty) like it does when he's going well. When it does (last month) he's still a good reliever. Oh and a second pitch wouldn't hurt.

[Ludwig Von Mises]

Just a guess, but he may not be hiding the ball as effectively as he used to. The velocity is the same but lefties are no longer way late on most of their swings.

In 2012 they hit just .095 and last year just .155 against him. Lefties would only square up that fastball after seeing 5 or 6 pitches.

Whatever it is, he needs to fix it soon. If he can't even be trusted in a 5 run game then he isn't much use.

[Adam]

Frieri's best performance came after talking shit on his opponent. He should talk shit more often

[stormngt]

Agreed. No time to quit on him but he can't be a closer.

Career 3.1 era for ernasty

Hes just not himself this yr

Unfortunate because he would be a big part of our success

[GalericX]

Shields part 2.

[CaliAngel]

Any capacity of Frieri's "success" has little to do with using his stuff to get out of a jam, it has more to do with the other team failing to capitalize on the mistakes he inevitably makes.

[Stradling]

Any capacity of Frieri's "success" has little to do with using his stuff to get out of a jam, it has more to do with the other team failing to capitalize on the mistakes he inevitably makes.

The Angels win inspite of Scioscia not because of him. The bottom line is his fastball use to be a very good fastball with movement, now it is straight and flat. Fix that and he will be as effective as he can be. He will never be a dominate closer, but he certainly can be a useful bullpen arm.

[CaliAngel]

Never saw his fastball have movement, nor have I ever been impressed by him in any capacity for an extended streak of appearances.

 

But maybe that's just me.

[fan_since79]

He's gone! Traded to the Pirates.