Conger vs Ianetta

[stormngt]

Doesn't the same argument apply to you guys? When we had Mathis and Napoli all I heard from you guys was how we needed the better offensive player. You guys dismissed the argument that a pitcher could pitch better with Mathis with Napoli. Now I am hearing the opposite argument. The improvement offensively is dismissed and now you guys are saying a pitcher actually does pitch better with a certain catcher over another. Your right. This crap is insane.....but you guys look in the mirror first.

I was going to say the same thing. When Mathis was here, he played him because of how the pitchers pitched when he was behind the plate. But now that Conger is here, he isn't using that logic. Makes zero sense.

[Guest]

Doesn't the same argument apply to you guys? When we had Mathis and Napoli all I heard from you guys was how we needed the better offensive player. You guys dismissed the argument that a pitcher could pitch better with Mathis with Napoli. Now I am hearing the opposite argument. The improvement offensively is dismissed and now you guys are saying a pitcher actually does pitch better with a certain catcher over another. Your right. This crap is insane.....but you guys look in the mirror first.

 

The issue now is Conger is better both defensively and offensively than Iannetta. Conger should be getting the majority of the playing time instead of a ~65:35 split in favor of Iannetta. 

Edited June 6, 2014 by ScottLux

[markb]

How is Conger better offensively than Iannetta?  

 

And yes I realize I look like the Iannetta Defense Force today, but I really am trying to get to the bottom of why people hate him so damn much.  Absolutely, he has defensive deficiencies, but people here seem to be vastly exaggerating them.  

[tennischmp]

Conger is not Mathis and Iannetta is not Napoli. The difference on offense is not that big

[AngelsLakersFan]

Doesn't the same argument apply to you guys? When we had Mathis and Napoli all I heard from you guys was how we needed the better offensive player. You guys dismissed the argument that a pitcher could pitch better with Mathis with Napoli. Now I am hearing the opposite argument. The improvement offensively is dismissed and now you guys are saying a pitcher actually does pitch better with a certain catcher over another. Your right. This crap is insane.....but you guys look in the mirror first.

 

 

I understand your point as someone who was very "pro Napoli" when he was here, but I have a different take this time around. The simple reason is that I could not tell that Napoli was a bad defensive catcher. Yes Mathis was quicker behind the plate, but never did I feel that the team was defensively inefficient with Napoli behind the plate. The difference in their offense was huge and easily measurable. The difference in the CERA was not as clear.

 

When I watch Iannetta I can see his faults behind the plate. He looks bad, he calls pitches poorly, he makes bad decisions, he stabs at everything that isn't right to his glove. It's there, right in my face every night.

 

He isn't Mike Napoli with the bat, and Conger isn't Jeff Mathis with the bat either. Conger has his share of issues behind the plate, and they have kept him from getting more time, but I really think we should be looking at least at a 50/50 split at this point.

[rageous]

I understand your point as someone who was very "pro Napoli" when he was here, but I have a different take this time around. The simple reason is that I could not tell that Napoli was a bad defensive catcher. Yes Mathis was quicker behind the plate, but never did I feel that the team was defensively inefficient with Napoli behind the plate. The difference in their offense was huge and easily measurable. The difference in the CERA was not as clear.

 

When I watch Iannetta I can see his faults behind the plate. He looks bad, he calls pitches poorly, he makes bad decisions, he stabs at everything that isn't right to his glove. It's there, right in my face every night.

 

He isn't Mike Napoli with the bat, and Conger isn't Jeff Mathis with the bat either. Conger has his share of issues behind the plate, and they have kept him from getting more time, but I really think we should be looking at least at a 50/50 split at this point.

Exactly my point.

My eye test says Iannetta's defense is really bad.

And the difference between Conger's hitting and Iannetta's hitting is negligible whereas the difference between Mathis and Napoli was huge.

Mathis was not a major league quality hitter.

[Mark68]

How is Conger better offensively than Iannetta?  

 

And yes I realize I look like the Iannetta Defense Force today, but I really am trying to get to the bottom of why people hate him so damn much.  Absolutely, he has defensive deficiencies, but people here seem to be vastly exaggerating them.  

Conger has his own deficiencies.

 

Not all catchers can be Molinas.

[markb]

And the difference between Conger's hitting and Iannetta's hitting is negligible 

 

I don't understand how you guys feel this way.  

 

Iannetta:  .263/.380/.458

Conger:  .241/.323/.422

 

Last 30

 

Iannetta:  .308/.379/.538

Conger:  .175/.298/.325

[ten ocho recon scout]

^very true, conger has definetwly scuffed lately. That said, its tough to get going with sporadic playing time.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Im not in any position to to say whos better defensively. Bur going on some of the things ive read on here (good link a week or so ago), id prefer conger getting the majority of the starts.

I love iannettas on base capability. But I think our offense is good enough without him, and if conger in fact is the better defensive catcher, its a no brainer.

[Jay]

Conger has a strong throwing arm.

 

He can throw the ball all the way into center field from behind the plate.

[stormngt]

Personally I supported Sosh when he played Mathis.  I took his word on the fact that he was a superior defensive player.  The was a big difference in the CERA between Mathis and Napoli.  However, many have given a good argument why Cera may not always be reliable.  I will take your word on how you have a different take.  However, I truly believe for most on this board they just want to hate on Sosh despite the consistency of their logic.

[tennischmp]

Personally I supported Sosh when he played Mathis.  I took his word on the fact that he was a superior defensive player.  The was a big difference in the CERA between Mathis and Napoli.  However, many have given a good argument why Cera may not always be reliable.  I will take your word on how you have a different take.  However, I truly believe for most on this board they just want to hate on Sosh despite the consistency of their logic.

What about the consistency of Scioscia's logic?

[Butcher'd]

Iannetta is very underrated offensively. His ability to get on base is something I value very much. Wish he'd see more PA's as DH

[ten ocho recon scout]

My issue when sosh used to use cera in the mathis/napoli wars was that mathis always seemed to catch the better pitchers

[Ludwig Von Mises]

From today's game:

 

 

 

I count 10 pitches outside the actual strike zone that were called strikes for the Angels (red boxes). Just one pitch (green box) inside the strikezone that was called a ball.

+9, not bad for Conger. By my count the A's were +1

Maybe the A's have good reason to bltch but Conger really is great at stealing strikes and preserving strikes inside the zone near the black.

[Docwaukee]

there is such a huge difference in framing ability between Conger and Iannetta.  Conger is the better pitch caller as well.  Conger is probably a shade better at blocking and Chris a shad better at throwing runner out.  Chris is better offensively at the moment but it's hard to know for sure whether that would hold up if Conger got at bats every day.  Personally, I'd like to see hank get the majority of starts vs. RHers. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

Ive said it before, and ill say it again...

I cant reasonably argue conger should start over iannetta....iannetta is the better bat...

But conger seems like hes a 'mascot'. He seems like hes a good guy, works well with the pitchers, and can hold his own to at minimum league average with the bat.

If the team goes far this year (and I am a believer theyre a wild card at least), conger is my pick for the guy the other 24 players give credit to. It wont be because hes the best, its because he has mojo.

[YouthofToday]

Are people seriously using CERA? How much did some on this board take as bribes from Tony Reagins?

[red321]

Ive said it before, and ill say it again...

I cant reasonably argue conger should start over iannetta....iannetta is the better bat...

But conger seems like hes a 'mascot'. He seems like hes a good guy, works well with the pitchers, and can hold his own to at minimum league average with the bat.

If the team goes far this year (and I am a believer theyre a wild card at least), conger is my pick for the guy the other 24 players give credit to. It wont be because hes the best, its because he has mojo.

 

I actually kind of agree with that. Conger makes me laugh...he's always appears to be thinking (like his bunt attempt...but not when he should have tagged up...so sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's a bad thing)...but he also has some of the worst ABs on the team...he's like Aybar Jr.

Edited June 10, 2014 by red321

[eaterfan]

I actually kind of agree with that. Conger makes me laugh...he's always appears to be thinking (like his bunt attempt...but not when he should have tagged up...so sometimes that's a good thing, sometimes it's a bad thing)...but he also has some of the worst ABs on the team...he's like Aybar Jr.

 

I'm not sure he should have tagged up. If that falls in for a hit he scores on that play without tagging and is stuck on third if he does. It wasn't a great read on the catch but it was a tough catch.

[eaterfan]

Are people seriously using CERA? How much did some on this board take as bribes from Tony Reagins?

 

Obviously CERA isn't the right name for it but I think most are trying to get to pitch framing ability. People who don't access the pitch framing data (and at this point in the season the sample is too small anyway) will have to use CERA because that is the closest thing to where it will show up.

[full circle]

I'm not sure he should have tagged up. If that falls in for a hit he scores on that play without tagging and is stuck on third if he does. It wasn't a great read on the catch but it was a tough catch.

Could not disagree more strongly.  And judging by the angry look on his face and the way he threw his gum away after the play, I'd say Sosh didn't agree either.  

[full circle]

I understand your point as someone who was very "pro Napoli" when he was here, but I have a different take this time around. The simple reason is that I could not tell that Napoli was a bad defensive catcher. Yes Mathis was quicker behind the plate, but never did I feel that the team was defensively inefficient with Napoli behind the plate. The difference in their offense was huge and easily measurable. The difference in the CERA was not as clear.

 

When I watch Iannetta I can see his faults behind the plate. He looks bad, he calls pitches poorly, he makes bad decisions, he stabs at everything that isn't right to his glove. It's there, right in my face every night.

 

He isn't Mike Napoli with the bat, and Conger isn't Jeff Mathis with the bat either. Conger has his share of issues behind the plate, and they have kept him from getting more time, but I really think we should be looking at least at a 50/50 split at this point.

This whole thing right here.  

[Jay]

In other words neither is really very good, we should be looking to upgrade that position.