Is Mike Trout....

[Tyler]

Bonds is the greatest player I have ever seen so far.

[sneaky_flute]

Trout is essentially the white Barry Bonds. 

[eaterfan]

I have a bit of an issue with the methodology in this study. I think the sample size is a bit small. 

[Troll Daddy]

So if Trout got the triple crown ... you knuckleheads couldn't careless lol

[tomsred]

Who cares about the triple crown? I'm serious. I truly could care less.

Anyone who is a fan of the Detroit Tigers.

[Ohtaniland]

Show me a lousy player that has won the triple crown? I get that it doesn't go by all the recent advanced metrics but it's still an accomplishment. Show me a player that hits for that much power and has that high of a batting average and I'll show you a very valuable player. How is the triple crown any different than all the combination of stats they accumulated to show how great Trout was? Trout is the best player in the game, period. But just because Cabrera won the MVP (when Trout should have) because he won the triple crown doesn't diminish the accomplishment.

 

Let's hope that he doesn't spend every October like Ernie Banks.

[Hollyw00d]

I have a bit of an issue with the methodology in this study. I think the sample size is a bit small.

I completely agree

[Brent Maguire]

So if Trout got the triple crown ... you knuckleheads couldn't careless lol

Why should people care? RBI's are a terrible way to measure a player so 1/3 of the criteria is already flawed. 

[Splint7438]

I was only pointing out the variety of skills the man has. I thought that was clear.

[stormngt]

Bonds is the greatest player I have ever seen so far.

 

the greatest player chemistry can make!

[Stradling]

I was only pointing out the variety of skills the man has. I thought that was clear.

It was totally clear. You were just pointing out his skillset and how that set him apart from everyone else.

[Brent Maguire]

I was only pointing out the variety of skills the man has. I thought that was clear.

What you said was fine. I was just simply pointing out that RBI are overrated.

 

I'm assuming Trout won't be hitting 3rd next year so he doesn't get as many RBI chances anyways as most other players. 

[Splint7438]

As long as he drives in the runs when he has the chance that's all I care about. He may have fewer RBI chances in the two hole unless mike moves Aybar to the nine hole. Actually I still like Aybar in the nine hole even if mike bats third.

[Stradling]

RBI are a false stat, unless you don't get a lot of them. I totally understand that RBI is a bad stat to use to look at a players worth, but how often do you look at the RBI leaders and say, "hey, that guy sucks"? I also think that this Triple Crown hate is stupid, with all due respect.

[eaterfan]

RBI are a false stat, unless you don't get a lot of them. I totally understand that RBI is a bad stat to use to look at a players worth, but how often do you look at the RBI leaders and say, "hey, that guy sucks"? I also think that this Triple Crown hate is stupid, with all due respect.

 

Your logic is circular. You are defining good players as players who get a lot of RBI and then ask how many bad players get a lot of RBI.

[Stradling]

No, I'm not. Maybe I should have said, "I know that RBI's are not the best way to determine a players worth, but....." My point is that it has become trendy to totally dismiss them and that is just dumb.

[eaterfan]

Mark Trumbo has been #10 and #11 in RBI in the AL the last 2 seasons. He's surely not a top 10 offensive player in the AL.

[AngelsLakersFan]

RBI are a false stat, unless you don't get a lot of them. I totally understand that RBI is a bad stat to use to look at a players worth, but how often do you look at the RBI leaders and say, "hey, that guy sucks"? I also think that this Triple Crown hate is stupid, with all due respect.

 

No leadoff hitter has ever driven in more than 100 RBI's in a season. Being at the top of the RBI leader board is just as much about hitting in the middle of a good line up as it is repeatable skill. Trumbo having a lot of RBI's says more about how good Mike Trout is than it does about how good Mark Trumbo is.

[maximus p]

No leadoff hitter has ever driven in more than 100 RBI's in a season. 

Darin Erstad?  But yeah, agree with your points, after 130+ years only one.

Edited December 17, 2013 by maximus p

[fan_since79]

Babe Ruth posted a .985 OPS in his 39th year.

 

I could see Trout doing the same thing.

Edited December 17, 2013 by fan_since79

[YouthofToday]

Yes, let's blindly follow the narrative old, ignorant baseball reporters and editors believe by actually giving weight to whatever stats they show.

I honestly don't follow RBIs. I don't even follow the "triple crown race". This false narrative is forced on me due to the illogical motivations of senile sports writers.

[Docwaukee]

If you put Miguel Cabrera in the leadoff spot, he would probably have more than 100 rbi.  Why?  because the correlate to rbi is very high with both slg% and hrs.  and negative with SB.  Part of the reason leadoff men don't get a lot of RBI is because they generally don't hit a lot of hrs or slug. 

 

RBI is a result.  whether it's repeatable is as much a consequence of the number of opportunities one has. 

 

BRef has a stat called BSR% or baserunners scored % which calculates the percent of base runner that score as a consequence of the hitters actions.  Regardless of whether the player gets an RBI (ie double plays or scored on an error)

 

Interestingly, the league average for BSR% has been about 13-15% almost universally since about the 70's.  Team's vary from about 12-17% with most at 14-15%.  Of course relative to the high number of baserunners, 1% here and there can mean a decent amount but on average, it's about 35-40 runs per %.  Last year, the Cards had a 17% rate which is about the highest in the modern era. 

 

What this means to me is that there isn't much a team 'philosophy' can do to change this.  You are going to plate about the same % of baserunners from year to year no matter what you do. 

 

So how do you increase your chances of scoring?  Get more runners on base

 

How do you prevent runners from scoring?  Keep them off the bases.

 

RBI/RBI opportunities obviously has quite a bit more variability among individual players. Here are a few individual players for their careers to date:

 

Miguel Cabrera 19%

Trout 18%

Trumbo 17%

Kendrick 16%

Aybar 14%

Josh Hamilton 19% (14% last year)

 

obviously, players that hit more hrs and have a higher slugging % as well as a higher avg are going to perform better.  But to me it's a way to give some merit to the fact that a guy like Trumbo

 

as an example, last year Trumbo was 21st in the league in number of runners on base when he came up.  Martin Prado saw almost exactly the same number.  They both had about the same ops.  Prado had 82rbi.  Trumbo had 100rbi.  They both also had about the same wOBA and fWAR. 

 

not saying that prado and trumbo are equal in other areas (like defense and baserunning), but if they were, because of Trumbo's higher slg/hr numbers, he would end up producing more runs and therefore more wins.  Last year it was about 2 wins worth of runs. 

 

In essence, it's more about slg% correlating to greater run production, but not all ops/ops+ is created equal. 

[Brent Maguire]

RBI are a false stat, unless you don't get a lot of them. I totally understand that RBI is a bad stat to use to look at a players worth, but how often do you look at the RBI leaders and say, "hey, that guy sucks"? I also think that this Triple Crown hate is stupid, with all due respect.

I don't think anyone hates the triple crown. I think people are probably just annoyed that Cabrera getting the triple crown was a big reason why he won the MVP in 2012. We don't know for sure but I would bet the MVP race would've been a helluva lot closer had Cabrera not won the triple crown. 

 

As far as the RBI comment, nobody atop the leader board will generally suck because if they're getting RBI chances, it means they're hitting high up in the order. But there are guys generally each year who get a ton of RBI and aren't that great of hitters. 

 

For example, Brandon Phillips was 11th in MLB with 80 RBI last year, while posting a below average 91 wRC+(9% below league average). Having Shin Soo Choo and Joey Votto in front of him created an absurd amount of RBI chances for Phillips. 

[YouthofToday]

I don't "hate" the triple crown. It is about as relevant as Jeff Mathis' CERA though.

[Stradling]

I don't think anyone hates the triple crown. I think people are probably just annoyed that Cabrera getting the triple crown was a big reason why he won the MVP in 2012. We don't know for sure but I would bet the MVP race would've been a helluva lot closer had Cabrera not won the triple crown.

As far as the RBI comment, nobody atop the leader board will generally suck because if they're getting RBI chances, it means they're hitting high up in the order. But there are guys generally each year who get a ton of RBI and aren't that great of hitters.

For example, Brandon Phillips was 11th in MLB with 80 RBI last year, while posting a below average 91 wRC+(9% below league average). Having Shin Soo Choo and Joey Votto in front of him created an absurd amount of RBI chances for Phillips.

How much closer was it this past year when Cabrera didn't win the Triple Crown? Oh and Cabrera is winning not because he won the Triple Crown he is winning because he is putting up Steroid like numbers on a winning team.