Put another "X" on the cops' guns

[saangels]

So much for HaloMagic's theory of irony.  

[mtangelsfan]

His family has said there is also a possibility he was wearing earbuds.

[mtangelsfan]

Of course not.  Most are just people.  The idea that I am always against the cops in shootings is silly.  I've posted or commented on maybe 6 or 7 stories regarding police shootings.  Yes I've thought those were bad shootings, but there have been hundreds of other police shootings over the last few years that I have not questioned.

[Lifetime]

And in those posts you have made, you have expressed quite clearly your jaded view of police and your distrust of them in general. 

[Socaliente]

Its a bad situation. Officers killed an innocent kid and a young boy died because our society is fearful of guns. I dont blame the cops at all. They did what they should have did. They got a call of a man with a gun walking around. This is illegal in California. They responded and saw exactly what they were told. What ever the circumstances of the boy not complying with lawful orders was, the police acted like they should act every time someone turns at them while holding an AK47. I'm very sorry this boy had to die. I'm sure he was a great kid and had a bright future. It wasnt his fault, it wasnt the police fault. There are no winners in this situation.

[mtangelsfan]

I had not heard that they received a call.  He was barely away from his house.

[Lhalo]

I haven't read that anywhere either.

[Blarg]

There was no report of any call. There was also no report of 20 shots fired but that posted a couple times in the thread.

[Tank]

I pretty much side against the police because they are the ones with the weapons, they are the ones with the training and for the most part, they are the ones that get to circle the wagons and protect themselves.  Not only that I have seen enough stories where they have lied, cheated, bullied and murdered to know they do it.

 

Why do you always side with them?

i frequently side with police because of all the crap they have to put up with from people who are trying to break the law. i also recognize that give the difficulty of their profession, there are going to be some bad cops that exist. those few are not enough to affect my thinking that the clear and vast majority of officers are decent people. 

 

do you realize how much people antagonize the police? do you realize how many people have weapons and pose a threat to others? being a cop is one of the most stressful occupations. i respect the fact that they're the ones willing to go into the dark building or alley to protect my safety, and that carries a lot of weight with me.

[Lhalo]

Interesting article on the deputy who killed the kid.

 

Gelhaus' role as a firearms instructor dates back to at least 1995. In an accident that made the news that year, he shot himself in the leg with his service handgun while holstering the gun to frisk a teen for weapons.

 

http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20131028/articles/310281004#page=0

 

[mtangelsfan]

i frequently side with police because of all the crap they have to put up with from people who are trying to break the law. i also recognize that give the difficulty of their profession, there are going to be some bad cops that exist. those few are not enough to affect my thinking that the clear and vast majority of officers are decent people. 

 

do you realize how much people antagonize the police? do you realize how many people have weapons and pose a threat to others? being a cop is one of the most stressful occupations. i respect the fact that they're the ones willing to go into the dark building or alley to protect my safety, and that carries a lot of weight with me.

 

Yes tank, I realize you don't like guns.  I also realize most shootings by the police are justified.  Which is why I don't call them out on a majority of the shootings.  If you want to believe they never do anything wrong.  If you want to believe that somehow the fact that they put on a uniform makes them all perfect I don't know what to say.

[Crampknees]

I am not sure there is a right or wrong in a tragedy like this.  Really sucks. 

[Tank]

Yes tank, I realize you don't like guns.  I also realize most shootings by the police are justified.  Which is why I don't call them out on a majority of the shootings.  If you want to believe they never do anything wrong.  If you want to believe that somehow the fact that they put on a uniform makes them all perfect I don't know what to say.

 

i never said anything of the sort. there are plenty of bad cops, but the number of bad ones doesn't affect my ability to appreciate the swarms of good ones. you're arguing things i haven't said or suggested. i'm moving on from this debate with you.

[mtangelsfan]

then you got my point.  you were doing the same thing.

[Jason]

Sometimes good cops make poor decisions. Shooting a 13 year old child has to be a cop's worst nightmare. The landmark case of Graham v. Connor gives officers the right to use force that they feel is necessary to stop the threat. If they can determine that's what any reasonable officer would do then it can be justified. I work in a field where I'm authorized to use force. It's all about using the right amount in relation to the level of threat.

[LBHalos17]

Sorry folks; I just stumbled onto this one today...

 

MT-  You are naive to think that (barring your CSI/Southland/other tv shows and movie conspiracy theories) this was not a justifiable shooting.  While it is tragic that a 13 year old was killed, HE made his choice to walk around with this very realistic replica (along with the one in his waistband) and point it at responding Officers.  He probably is the one who removed any orange markings from it as well (but that's debatable in your world; I have seen it).  Officers were probably called to respond to this, because a neighbor saw the kid as a threat.  These Officers feel horrible I'm sure for having been put in this situation.  If it's an MT-style conspiracy, they will be found-out by their peers and supervisors.

 

Bank robbers often wield replica weapons.  They usually prefer to drop them, when confronted.

 

Police Officers are not paid to wait to be shot at first.  We are also allowed (actually directed in our policy) to shoot certain suspects in the back!  "OMG?!   Seriously?!"  Yes.  Example-  The North Hollywood bank robbers.  One of them was walking away from Officers after firing hundreds of rounds at Officers and civilians while leaving the bank.  Should Officers let him try to carjack the next vehicle that drives past him, because it's not "John Wayne style" to shoot him in the back?  I think I've written it in here before, but I would still urge you haters to take a ride-along with your local Department.  

 

Whoever else thinks this was a bad shoot, gimme your number; I'll call you to come hug-it-out with the suspect on the next similar call.  I'll even let you borrow a taser, since you let-on that you would be able to tell it wasn't a real weapon.  Gotta love MMQ's.

[mtangelsfan]

Dude, stop with the police don't make mistakes walk a mile in our shoes bullshit.  Why don't you walk in the 13 year old's parents shoes. 

 

Thanks for the whole bankrobber example.  Interesting but completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.  This kid was barely away from his own yard.  The cops happened upon him and clearly decided he was public enemy number one and gunned his ass down.  Kill first ask questions later.  The fact that you can't even look at this or at procedure with a critical eye tells me all I need to know about you and what you are about.  Don't worry, I won't call you if I am in trouble.  I would call someone who would actually give a crap.

[Lifetime]

Nothing like arguing hyperbole to counter hyperbole.

[LBHalos17]

Dude, stop with the police don't make mistakes walk a mile in our shoes bullshit.  Why don't you walk in the 13 year old's parents shoes. 

 

Thanks for the whole bankrobber example.  Interesting but completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.  This kid was barely away from his own yard.  The cops happened upon him and clearly decided he was public enemy number one and gunned his ass down.  Kill first ask questions later.  The fact that you can't even look at this or at procedure with a critical eye tells me all I need to know about you and what you are about.  Don't worry, I won't call you if I am in trouble.  I would call someone who would actually give a crap.

Dude, you're missing CSI on your learning channel.  I have never said that Police Officers were perfect.  Some of us make mistakes on occasion, and a few are downright dirty.  But, most of us respect our positions and the people we serve (including ourselves and neighbors), that we try to deal with these few seriously.  You, on the other hand, feel free to make blanket-statements about all of us before the facts are even out.

 

What do you know about this 13 year old and his family-situation? Only what you've been fed by the media.  Have you ever worked with kids who are basically abandoned by their "give-a-damn" parents?  I know you've probably never had a teenager point a replica at you while you hoped your decision to not shoot is the right one.

 

How is my example of criminals using replica-firearms not relevant to this replica-firearm-involved shooting?!  You refuse any common-sense?  Apparently you were a witness to this incident ("The kid was barely away from his yard"), or you take what the media shovels into you as gospel.  You're just another monday-morning quarterback who demands people (Officers, in this case) put themselves in the "victims'" shoes.  But, you'd rather rush to judgement than do the same.

 

You're a sad, bitter person who responds to perception rather than facts.  You're missing-out on not calling me... I have sympathy and can show real empathy for victims.  I have followed-up with victims on my own time.  I treat people with the respect they deserve as individuals.  I enjoy being the one who can make a difference, and take bad guys away from victims.

 

I can see from your extremely venomous comments, that you won't be convinced to keep an open-mind... So I won't continue your argument.  Enjoy having the last words (yours or the medias).

[HaloMagic]

Hey, at least they felt horrible about it...

[mtangelsfan]

Dude, you're missing CSI on your learning channel.  I have never said that Police Officers were perfect.  Some of us make mistakes on occasion, and a few are downright dirty.  But, most of us respect our positions and the people we serve (including ourselves and neighbors), that we try to deal with these few seriously.  You, on the other hand, feel free to make blanket-statements about all of us before the facts are even out.

 

What do you know about this 13 year old and his family-situation? Only what you've been fed by the media.  Have you ever worked with kids who are basically abandoned by their "give-a-damn" parents?  I know you've probably never had a teenager point a replica at you while you hoped your decision to not shoot is the right one.

 

How is my example of criminals using replica-firearms not relevant to this replica-firearm-involved shooting?!  You refuse any common-sense?  Apparently you were a witness to this incident ("The kid was barely away from his yard"), or you take what the media shovels into you as gospel.  You're just another monday-morning quarterback who demands people (Officers, in this case) put themselves in the "victims'" shoes.  But, you'd rather rush to judgement than do the same.

 

You're a sad, bitter person who responds to perception rather than facts.  You're missing-out on not calling me... I have sympathy and can show real empathy for victims.  I have followed-up with victims on my own time.  I treat people with the respect they deserve as individuals.  I enjoy being the one who can make a difference, and take bad guys away from victims.

 

I can see from your extremely venomous comments, that you won't be convinced to keep an open-mind... So I won't continue your argument.  Enjoy having the last words (yours or the medias).

His family situation is irrelevant.  The police would have zero knowledge of it when they pulled up. I wasn't there but I can read.  And the facts of the case are that he was less than a block away from his own house.  I rarely call out the police for shootings since a majority of them are for the right reasons.  But when I do, I won't back down simply because the "blue wall" wants to come down on those who want to question possible tactical policies and procedures.

[Blarg]

I guess the police would not have known he was only a block from his home so that is pretty irrelevant.

[mtangelsfan]

I guess it should just be illegal to have fake guns then.  Punishable by death of course, without a trial.

[Lifetime]

pretty irrational thinking mt.

[mtangelsfan]

So he got a trial then?  When was it?