Put another "X" on the cops' guns

[mtangelsfan]

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/calif-sheriffs-deputies-shoot-kill-13-year-old

 

 

This time a 13 year old with a toy gun.

[TobiasFunke]

3 kids also got shot today at Newman Elementary School in Chino because a cop's weapon was accidentally discharged.

[mtangelsfan]

at least that was an accident.

[Scott34]

You're seriously blaming the cops here?

[mtangelsfan]

They put multiple bullets into an unarmed 13 year old kid. 

 

 

So.....................................................

 

yes.   

 

But looks like he was hispanic so I guess it's ok eh?

[Scott34]

They put multiple bullets into an unarmed 13 year old kid. 

 

 

So.....................................................

 

yes.   

 

But looks like he was hispanic so I guess it's ok eh?

 

Look down the barrel of that gun and tell me you wouldn't shoot.  BS.

[Spirit]

Did you just say, "eh?"

 

 

 

 

Your Canada is showing.

[mtangelsfan]

Look down the barrel of that gun and tell me you wouldn't shoot.  BS.

 

So you are automatically going to believe the police that the kid pointed the gun at them directly?  What possible reason would this kid have for that?  More likely is he had the toy, the cops approached him told him to drop the gun, he got scared didn't react immediately and they put 20 plus rounds in him.  That is cops, shoot first ask questions later.

 

They know that they will have a majority of people like you who will never question what they do or how they do it.

[Scott34]

So you are automatically going to believe the police that the kid pointed the gun at them directly?  What possible reason would this kid have for that?  More likely is he had the toy, the cops approached him told him to drop the gun, he got scared didn't react immediately and they put 20 plus rounds in him.  That is cops, shoot first ask questions later.

 

They know that they will have a majority of people like you who will never question what they do or how they do it.

 

So you want them to assume the gun is fake.  That'll go over well when some dude has a real AR or AK.

[tdawg87]

I have never been a cop or in the military or anything so I feel that my opinions on this matter aren't entirely justified, but I have always thought police officers should only open fire in a "worst-case-scenario" situation. If someone opens fire on them first, THEN they take out the weapons. I fully understand that they have families and children and all that, and want to protect themselves. I just think it should be the risk of being an officer of the law. If someone has a weapon and hasn't fired a single round (that you have seen), then why fire at that person? They should try to get the weapon away from them. Could this end up getting one of the officers killed? Absolutely, but it is no worse than an innocent teenager being killed for carrying a toy.

 

I just feel firing on a civilian should be an absolute last resort.

[mtangelsfan]

So you want them to assume the gun is fake.  That'll go over well when some dude has a real AR or AK.

 

I want them to regard all lives as special, not just their own.  I don't think they should just be able to murder a kid and then say "well, it could have been real".  That's bullshit.

[jshep]

It does seem like the cops very possibly overreacted here, but it does seem a little odd that the kid was reportedly told to drop the gun "repeatedly" and didn't do so.

 

Not that that justifies the officers' actions based on the facts as we know them now, though.

[mtangelsfan]

Well, as the they say, the winner gets to tell the narrative.

 

 

[HaloMagic]

I'm not an officer and I'm not sure if the standards that apply to me should apply to them but if that kid shows up on my front yard and I tell him to drop or to leave and he doesn't I know one thing - me and my family are living to see tomorrow. I'm not sure I could say the same for the kid. Sorry if I don't value him as much as me and my own. Again, I'm not sure if cops should have a different set of rules. But I'm having trouble justifying it. They're people, too. I can't ever see myself faulting people for taking care of their own.

[mtangelsfan]

I guess if you want to live in a world where safety trumps civil rights that bully for you, I don't.  This kid was basically executed for carrying a toy gun.  No trial, no judge, no jury.

[HaloMagic]

I guess if you want to live

Correct

[saangels]

I'm on your side, mt...but I have a couple of questions.  

 

First, in the cops' defense: why isn't there an orange tip on that toy gun?  

 

Second, in the kid's defense: why couldn't the cops have shot him once in the leg, if they truly feared that he might be a threat?  

 

If the kid had been a 25 year old grown man, and ignored the orders to drop the gun, then I'd have had no problem with them blowing him away.  But he was 13.  That changes everything.  The cops f*cked up.       

Edited October 24, 2013 by saangels

[mtangelsfan]

Correct

 

Then you shouldn't have any problem with government spying, drone attacks or warrantless searches.  After all, it keeps us all safer.

[Adam]

This stuff happens far too often...

[Blarg]

It was a 13 year old that killed a math teacher that tried to reason with him to put down a gun in Spaks Nevada this week. That math teacher served two campaigns in Afghanistan only to be blown away by a kid so to act as though it is unreasonable to treat a teenager with a weapon as a serious threat is plain stupid. There is not age limit on dangerous individuals.

[Blarg]

By the way MT that is not a toy gun, that is a non firing replica of an AK47, completely undistinguishable from the real weapon.

[arch stanton]

Maybe it just doesn't get publicized but I'd sure like to hear at least one story where the authorities use a means other than deadly force to diffuse a situation. Is this the extent of their training or just the extent of their will to do the right thing?

[Blarg]

You would like to usenon leathal force against someone holding an AK47? Good luck with that.

But anecdotal story, a cousin in law that lived in Long Beach was waving a shotgun around in a drunk rage and the LBPD took him down without firing a shot. He was jailed and did time. No real hapoy ending, the sob was an abusive alcoholic that eventually commited suicide but at least the police didn't help him.

Edited October 24, 2013 by Eric Notti

[mtangelsfan]

It was a 13 year old that killed a math teacher that tried to reason with him to put down a gun in Spaks Nevada this week. That math teacher served two campaigns in Afghanistan only to be blown away by a kid so to act as though it is unreasonable to treat a teenager with a weapon as a serious threat is plain stupid. There is not age limit on dangerous individuals.

 

 

 

Those two situations are not connected at all eric.  Not at all.  

[Lifetime]

They are in the sense that it is illogical to dismiss a 13 year old from being old enough to be a deadly threat.