The value of keeping Dipoto and Scioscia

[The God of Runs]

In the end, I don't believe that either Scioscia or Dipoto will get fired.  Much of the success of this franchise in the first decade of the 2000's had to do with continuity.  The Halos played baseball the Scioscia way and it worked very well through that decade, when the Halos were able to amass division title after division title. Scioscia was able to get a lot out of the players and I don't believe he's lost his ability. 

 

Dipoto took a lot of gambles the past off-season and pretty much sevened out.  But, there were a lot of factors, including major injuries, that contributed to one of the worst seasons in Angels recent history.  Can we really blame Dipoto for Weaver's and Pujols' injuries?  Is 2 years enough time to undo all of the damage that Reagins did to the farm system and trading for Vernon?  Yes, he's made some questionable signings in Blanton, Pujols, and Hamilton.  But, how much of those signings were his call? 

 

Bottom line, people need to have some leeway as far as making mistakes.  Everyone makes them.  Scioscia's made them.  Dipoto's made them.  Arte's made them.  And, I don't see a scenario where a new GM or a new manager will turn everything around with the core group of players that are currently on the roster and make this a 95 win team.  If it were up to me, I'm willing to go into the 2014 season with the same group of people at management, to see if they can turn it around themselves. 

[kevinb]

It's been two years with Jerry and we've gotten worse each year. And Mike hasn't made the playoffs in 4 years. It's time for a new direction.

[gotbeer]

I agree with what you are saying regarding Dipoto and Scioscia.  But the rest of the coaching staff I think is in jeopardy.  Especially Butcher.  When your pitchers go the wrong way like most of the Angels pitchers are doing, and then you see pitchers leave and do well, it should raise some suspicion that maybe a change is for the better.  

[JAHV76]

I could see Butcher and the bullpen coaches not getting their contracts renewed next season.

[WallyWorld]

re: continuity - they won the World Series in his 3rd year of being a manager, so . ..  no.

[shellback]

will sciosia stand for butcher or any of the coaches being fired? considering his loyalty towards hatcher, i dont think he stays if any of the field staff is let go.

[Angel Oracle]

The hitting had sucked a lot until May 2012 = Hacker was fired.

The pitching sucking the past 2 years = time for Butcher and the bullpen coach to go.

[shellback]

i try to not call for anybodys neck... however the results are obvious- butchy boy needs to go.

[Torridd]

will sciosia stand for butcher or any of the coaches being fired? considering his loyalty towards hatcher, i dont think he stays if any of the field staff is let go.

I agree. I don't see this happening a second time after Hatcher was let go. If Butcher goes, Scioscia will go with him.

[mrwicked]

something about doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results.

[shellback]

something about doing the same thing over and over and over and expecting different results.

sounds like my golf history...

[Docwaukee]

the org mentality of being a perennial contender changed to win a championship at all cost to the future. 

 

I think they recognized this two years ago and tried to bridge a 3-4 year gap in the farm by using free agency to sustain winning during that period.

 

The plan, in theory, can work, yet it failed because they put all their eggs in one basket and picked the wrong basket which left the team completely and utterly unbalanced.   Look at boston for instance.  They were able to get out from under a bunch of bad contracts yet that is not the most important part of the story here.  Even after that they had a core of solid players that they were able to supplement with a few fairly modest free agent signings.  But as a team, they remain fairly balanced on all sides. 

 

The halos on the other hand are stuck with their bad contracts.  So in essence, there isn't as much of an opportunity to restore balance, but they can take a few of those eggs out of the offense basket and put them in a pitching one.  

 

With that, here is the problem I have with current FO and management. 

 

Even assuming that JD wasn't the ring leader with the Albert and Hamilton deals, his other decisions have been ok to poor.  He's left bullpen a wreck, he signed the worst pitcher in baseball to a two year deal knowing that he wasn't very good even before, and he's further weakened what little depth was available in the mid to upper minors.  Not a good showing. 

 

The Angels have also played poor fundamental baseball.  Base baserunning, defense and poor situational hitting.  Some, but not all of that rests in the hands of the manager. 

 

Overall, Arte's philosophy needs to change and if so, I would keep Dipoto and let him try to make things better without the 'restriction' of netting an immediate championship.  I am neutral on Scioscia.  Leave or stay, I am doubtful any manager could turn this group into playoff contenders, but I would like to see better baseball.  I do agree that at the very least eppard and butcher need to go. 

[Homebrewer]

will sciosia stand for butcher or any of the coaches being fired? considering his loyalty towards hatcher, i dont think he stays if any of the field staff is let go.

People that think Scioscia will stand for his coaching staff being canned, haven't been paying attention.

[Angel Oracle]

What factors are contributing to such poor fundamentals?

Players not getting enough of the right coaching in our farm system?

Too many questionable fundamentals players being acquired by Reagins and Dipoto?

This manager and coaching staff has lost the ability to oversee them? 

[Halos of Anaheim]

Fire Butcher. Give Scioscia one more year (and let him know this, so MAYBE he'll try something new for once) Give Dipoto one more year to show he's taking this team in the right direction.

 

Moves I want to see this offseason.

 

Trout extended

Blanton DFA'd

Trout extended

Bullpen fixed

Trade/sign a #3 pitcher

...Trout extended.

[Jay]

If there's really bad chemistry between Scoiscia and Dipoto then one of them needs to go.

[Angel Oracle]

If both Scisocia and Dipoto are kept, then Arte Moreno is doing what few owners would do: permit his manager and GM to be on different pages for 3 straight years.

[tennischmp]

The value of keeping Dipoto and Scioscia is getting closer and closer to the #1 pick for the next few years

[Bruce Nye]

The hitting had sucked a lot until May 2012 = Hacker was fired.

The pitching sucking the past 2 years = time for Butcher and the bullpen coach to go.

 

 

 

Are you seriously going to tell us hitting has improved under Eppard?  What happens when you take out Trout's and Pujol's stats?  Let's see how well the new guy does with Iannetta, Green, Cowgill, Nelson, etc.

[Jay]

Just look at the strides Trumbo has made.  He's swinging at fewer pitches that are over his head.

[austin724]

I would be fine if a new manager came in, but I don't see anyone worthwhile out there right now.  The big changes that need to be made are the pitching and hitting coach.  If we can improve in that area that is a major plus for next year.

[Troll Daddy]

The hitting had sucked a lot until May 2012 = Hacker was fired.

The pitching sucking the past 2 years = time for Butcher and the bullpen coach to go.

 

You really think our hitting has improved? The only reason it may be a little better is because of the emergence of Trout.

[Angel Oracle]

You really think our hitting has improved? The only reason it may be a little better is because of the emergence of Trout.

As much as the RISP hitting has struggled in 2013, it was pretty good in 2012 from mid-May on.

We truly don't know yet what Eppard's influence is, just that (maybe coincidental) the hitting took off after he took over in 2012.

 

Who has Butcher truly fixed that was struggling the past 2 seasons?   

Wilson and Vargas come to mind, but who else?

Frieri doesn't qualify as fixed because he's more hot and cold than running water. 

[Ohtaniland]

They need to keep Sosh to fire Butcher and Eppard.

They need to keep Dipoto to fire Sosh.

Arte will then finish the job.

[stormngt]

I agree. I don't see this happening a second time after Hatcher was let go. If Butcher goes, Scioscia will go with him.

 

Well that would certainly save Arte from buying out Scioscia's contract.  I actually could see this as an option: Entice Mike to resign!

 

I do not want to see Scioscia go like most on this board, but I do believe Arte has to think about a full scale change.  

 

I do agree with the original poster that continuity is probably the best way to get this team turned around.  Constantly changing course does not build a franchise.