Votto?

[Ochocinco!]

People thinking that Votto would be anything more than an end of bench spot are hilarious. Dude would play 50-60 games max, so essentially Rendon but about 30 million a year cheaper and a better attitude towards the game 

[Tank]

5 hours ago, eaterfan said:

I'd like them to sign him. The team isn't going anywhere this year and I'd rather watch Joey Votto hit (or not) than a marginally better player who I don't care about. This is to say I'd rather win 80 games with Votto than 82 with CJ Cron.

agreed. and i don't see him getting anything more than a one year deal. it's not like we're on the edge of the playoffs.

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Torridd said:

Votto is for a team that's either rebuilding or is the final piece. He would just block someone here who would need the spot.

We’re rebuilding.

[Rollinghard]

Votto knows how to hit. He has been a successful professional for a long time. If he is healthy, I would take him for a year. Leadership and knowledge alone is worth the chance. Maybe he would/could teach Adell how to hit. 

[Halo in Chicago]

If we’re truly rebuilding and he’s an end of the bench guy I’d be okay with it. I think he’d be a good clubhouse influence. If we’re plugging him in for 120 games and hoping he found the fountain of youth - no thanks. 

[tdawg87]

On 1/25/2024 at 10:31 PM, totdprods said:

We’re rebuilding.

We are until Arte signs Bellinger.

[ShotimeDynasty]

If it’s determined Schanuel needs a little space to develop Votto is a guy who wouldn’t block him from coming back up when ready.

Could there be a better mentor for Nolan Schanuel than Joey Votto? Both plate discipline extraordinaires Votto has gone from a guy that sacrificed some power in favor of superior OBP then switched to tapping into max power… understands hitting as well as anybody.

Dismiss the clubhouse presence at your own peril. This team could absolutely use a spokesman on the 26 man and you’d be hard pressed to find a better clubhouse leader and ally for Anthony Rendon than Joey Votto. Votto may now be universally loved but has gone thru stretches where many didn’t like him for both his approach at the plate and fiery personality that has led to his fair share of spats.

Trout hasn’t played with a vet that has charisma like Votto since Torii. I think Votto’s presence would help him on a daily basis too. 

If Schanuel does make the team as the 1B/ DH vs RHP, Votto was great vs LHP in 2023 and has always his same handed pitching well over his career (131 wRC+). Votto is also potentially a better defensive first baseman than Schanuel.

Votto was a bit below average in 2023 while coming back from major shoulder injury, but his .231 ISO was great and he suffered from terrible batted ball luck.

He might be a good contributor, he would definitely be beneficial for the clubhouse, and if Schanuel forces his way into a regular role and Votto can’t earn consistent ABs, he’s not the type (like Pujols was) to make it a clubhouse problem. I don’t really see any downside and think there’s a good bit of upside... maybe a ton. 

[ShotimeDynasty]

On 1/25/2024 at 1:35 PM, totdprods said:

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb/reds/2023/07/06/joey-votto-helped-reds-outfielder-will-bensons-midseason-turnaround/70378770007/

“Cincinnati Reds outfielder Will Benson boarded the plane from Chicago to Boston with a .074 batting average in 2023.

…

On that plane ride on May 28, Reds first baseman Joey Votto started a conversation with Benson. They talked about hitting. Votto explained the importance of Benson making the path of his swing more consistent. Votto said that the first step toward Benson developing a repeatable swing was his pre-game preparation. During the plane ride, the 17-year veteran worked with the 25-year-old outfielder to develop a new and improved plan at the plate. In Benson’s next game, he picked up three hits in a win over the Boston Red Sox, including a fastball that he drove off of the Green Monster for a triple. “I knew at that point that what I was trying to do was correct,” Benson said. “There was a lot I was trying to grasp. I’m thankful Votto took the time and broke down some things for me. He helped a lot of things make sense. Then that triple was the moment where I thought, ‘Yeah, we’re doing this.’”

Since that game, Benson has statistically been one of the best hitters in baseball. He’s hitting .358 with a 1.039 OPS during that stretch. In that 37-day span, Benson has the sixth-best batting average, the best on-base percentage and the seventh-best OPS in MLB.

.…

“He’ll laugh, but I really thank God for Joey Votto,” Benson said. “He really took the time, even while he was dealing with his rehab stuff. He sought me out, he stayed on me, he provided encouragement and he gave me good feedback. It’s been a blessing.”

Every one keeps wondering about how he would impact Schanuel, but we also have O'Hoppe, Thaiss, Neto, Adell, Rengifo and Moniak as other young bats who could stand to gain something still. If he does sign with the Angels, it's not to make 2024 better, but the years following.

Love this

[The Ghost of Bob Starr]

From my friend on the Reds, Votto is a complete class act. Last year, he knew the writing was on the wall, but he was a solid dude the whole time. 
 

He could be a great mentor guy, but not to take ABs from someone. He may have more value from a leadership perspective - something that sadly Trout does not have.  
 

I think he’s washed, but I think he can bring value in to the team with the younger guys. 

[ShotimeDynasty]

8 minutes ago, The Ghost of Bob Starr said:

From my friend on the Reds, Votto is a complete class act. Last year, he knew the writing was on the wall, but he was a solid dude the whole time. 
 

He could be a great mentor guy, but not to take ABs from someone. He may have more value from a leadership perspective - something that sadly Trout does not have.  
 

I think he’s washed, but I think he can bring value in to the team with the younger guys. 

If he were to just replicate the 11.2% BB / 25.6% K / .231 ISO that he posted in 23 he would likely end up with an above average wRC+. .212 BABIP from last year was terribly unlucky.

Furthermore, I think the ISO shows he still has something in the tank.. 14 points higher than his career average. If he was washed his K rate would’ve been worse and I think he’ll just retire when he’s truly washed. 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

 

Jerry Gallo, Jerry Callo, Joey Vallo, Joey Votto....

Who gives shit.... Makes for a funny scene in a movie. The 2024 Angels Baseball season not so much.

 

 

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

On 1/25/2024 at 7:31 PM, totdprods said:

We’re rebuilding.

 

10 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

We are until Arte signs Bellinger.

Tdawg, you know it's coming eventually....

[Angels 1961]

Toronto signing Turner maybe leaves halos alone with interest in Votto.

[Angel Oracle]

After seeing the .231 ISO and unlucky .212 BABIP in 2023 for Votto and his work with the Reds Will Benson, I have come around enough to the idea of the Halos signing Votto.

They do need another lefty hitter, plus he hits lefties relatively well anyway.

[totdprods]

They should be doing all they can to develop Schanuel, O’Hoppe, Neto, Adell, Moniak, any youngster.

If they think Votto can provide another voice and insight that helps any of those guys find another gear it will be well worth the $5M and 200-300 PA or whatever he gets.

I don't think Votto's individual contribution, no matter how good or bad, would significantly alter the Angels' contention hopes in 2024. If he's here, it's because they anticipate him having an effect beyond 2024. 

Edited January 30 by totdprods

[Dtwncbad]

35 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

After seeing the .231 ISO and unlucky .212 BABIP in 2023 for Votto and his work with the Reds Will Benson, I have come around enough to the idea of the Halos signing Votto.

They do need another lefty hitter, plus he hits lefties relatively well anyway.

I don’t know.  It seems like the biggest “lefty/righty” issue with this roster is not the lack of another left handed bat, but the rather modest level of success that some of the right handed hitters on this team have against lefties.  To that end, you can almost argue that they need a right handed bat that just crushes left handers.

[Angel Oracle]

37 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I don’t know.  It seems like the biggest “lefty/righty” issue with this roster is not the lack of another left handed bat, but the rather modest level of success that some of the right handed hitters on this team have against lefties.  To that end, you can almost argue that they need a right handed bat that just crushes left handers.

Trout, Rendon, and RHH Rengifo all have really good career OPS’ vs LHP.   O’Hoppe’s was over .900 in 2023.   Drury’s is almost .800.   Neto’s was almost .800 in 2023.   

Of course, need good team health to utilize that.

Edited January 30 by Angel Oracle

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

After seeing the .231 ISO and unlucky .212 BABIP in 2023 for Votto and his work with the Reds Will Benson, I have come around enough to the idea of the Halos signing Votto.

Well, his BaBIP is low in part because his HRs were up compared to everything else.  Keep in mind that HRs don't count as part of BaBIP, so a guy hitting 40 bombs won't see any of those hits count towards his BaBIP.  The plus side, it's not like his power was park induced -- he actually hit better overall away, and the HR totals home and away were even last year.

1 hour ago, Angel Oracle said:

They do need another lefty hitter, plus he hits lefties relatively well anyway.

He had an 897 OPS last year .vs LHP, but it was under .690 the previous four years combined.  So they may very well be looking at him as a platoon option but the reality his numbers .vs RHPs cratered last year is another reason for concern.  Actually his numbers .vs RHPs actually fell off a cliff in 2022.

There's been talk he was dealing with a shoulder issue and maybe they think he's got some bounce in him still.  Or maybe they just really want him in the clubhouse.  Who knows.

 

[T.G.]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Well, his BaBIP is low in part because his HRs were up compared to everything else.  Keep in mind that HRs don't count as part of BaBIP, so a guy hitting 40 bombs won't see any of those hits count towards his BaBIP.

I always learn new and interesting stuff from you.  Thanks.

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Well, his BaBIP is low in part because his HRs were up compared to everything else.  Keep in mind that HRs don't count as part of BaBIP, so a guy hitting 40 bombs won't see any of those hits count towards his BaBIP.  The plus side, it's not like his power was park induced -- he actually hit better overall away, and the HR totals home and away were even last year.

He had an 897 OPS last year .vs LHP, but it was under .690 the previous four years combined.  So they may very well be looking at him as a platoon option but the reality his numbers .vs RHPs cratered last year is another reason for concern.  Actually his numbers .vs RHPs actually fell off a cliff in 2022.

There's been talk he was dealing with a shoulder issue and maybe they think he's got some bounce in him still.  Or maybe they just really want him in the clubhouse.  Who knows.

 

I would not be surprised if Votto had one last decent half-season's worth of PAs in him if a team utilized him right. Even a .750-.800 OPS wouldn't surprise me, and would be a great part-time option. Would be good to have a PH on the bench with some capability to be a threat with runners on or when they need a walk.

[Inside Pitch]

19 minutes ago, T.G. said:

I always learn new and interesting stuff from you.  Thanks.

Stats can be super annoying, there's always some caveat or some other stat that makes it so you have to consider where it fails. Even worse, there are always new ones that make you feel like a dumbass because they make so much sense that you don't understand why it wasn't obvious before.

I blame people like @ettin, legit rocket scientists that love baseball and start looking at shit like; if Batter A were to angle his bat XX degrees then some smart shit happens that would make fans happy.  Point is... one of the best parts of being a baseball fan is that there is always something new to learn.

Also...  F the Dodgers!

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I would not be surprised if Votto had one last decent half-season's worth of PAs in him if a team utilized him right. Even a .750-.800 OPS wouldn't surprise me, and would be a great part-time option. Would be good to have a PH on the bench with some capability to be a threat with runners on or when they need a walk.

A .740-750 OPS puts him right around league average -- and given his tendency to get on base -- he's not useless, even if he's only hitting .220.  He's got zero defensive value so, trotting him out to 1B can only hurt a team but a .750 OPS off the bench has some value.

I would much prefer they offer him a coaching job, but I can see reasons why someone like Perry may think the clubhouse stuff would be a boost, particularly with a new manager around and the loss of Ohtani.

It's not all Xs and Os or stats...

[Erstad Grit]

8 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I would not be surprised if Votto had one last decent half-season's worth of PAs in him if a team utilized him right. Even a .750-.800 OPS wouldn't surprise me, and would be a great part-time option. Would be good to have a PH on the bench with some capability to be a threat with runners on or when they need a walk.

You never know. Pujols looked cooked, and then back in St Louis he was ridiculous. 

[Angels 1961]

10 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

You never know. Pujols looked cooked, and then back in St Louis he was ridiculous. 

Yeah, he got hot late in season, roids no more tests. Back in St. Louis where fans loved him. Divorce was final, something happened.

[totdprods]

48 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

You never know. Pujols looked cooked, and then back in St Louis he was ridiculous. 

For high-profile HOF vets like these guys, sometimes having a bit of a reality check like being DFAed or a quiet phone in winter may help them tweak their perspective some too. They’ve spent their careers being the top of their field. It’s easy to cling to the framework that brought them their success even as they decline. 

More often than not, it’s too late and they don’t rebound at that age, but like with Pujols perhaps a change of scenery can bring acceptance, release some of the expectations, and allow a vet to approach things new. As such, yeah, Votto could put up a decent season and it wouldn’t shock me. He also might suck. Either way I don’t think he changes 2024 much for the Halos, and if he helps Adell turn into Will Benson or Nolan Schanuel turn into Votto-lite, I think it’s worth the gamble.