Feinsand: Angels are “very interested” in Blake Snell

[floplag]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

Yes of course depth guys move the needle in the standings. Snell, Gray, Yamamoto, are all very good starting pitchers that move the needle.  Burnes, Glasnow, Cease and Bieber are all on the trade block and will move the needle. Even guys like Flaherty and Giolito (with a reasonable bounce back) would be better than starting guys we had starting games at times last year. 
I mean this with all due respect, you tend to discredit good players because they aren’t great or because they are highly paid. 

Strad, Snell, Gray, and Yamamoto are not "depth" guys and not what im talking about.  You know that.  This class is deep with depth, a ton of 3, 4, 5 guys... very few 1s and 2s.   Those 3, 4, 5 arent moving that needle, weve been there done that how many times now?  You are aware of the common definition of insanity yes? 

Do i discredit over payed players, yes i do, especially at positions that continue to lose value year after year in this game as it evolves.   Even moreso when it cripples a team from doing more things it needs to do.  If we didnt let tit do that, i wouldnt care, but we do so it changes everything. 

You want to know who i would overpay, easy... trade for Soto.   Make a move like that that helps every night for 9 innings.. not every 5th or 6th for 5. 

[Angels 1961]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

I disagree, they need to get a TOR arm, and a MVP Caliber hitter. They will not rebuild while Arte owns the team, they are retooling each year and expect to compete. 

I understand retooling each year but it is not working.. Angel's bottom of barrel in farm system. 

[Angels 1961]

4 minutes ago, floplag said:

Strad, Snell, Gray, and Yamamoto are not "depth" guys and not what im talking about.  You know that.  This class is deep with depth, a ton of 3, 4, 5 guys... very few 1s and 2s.   Those 3, 4, 5 arent moving that needle, weve been there done that how many times now?  You are aware of the common definition of insanity yes? 

Do i discredit over payed players, yes i do, especially at positions that continue to lose value year after year in this game as it evolves.   Even moreso when it cripples a team from doing more things it needs to do.  If we didnt let tit do that, i wouldnt care, but we do so it changes everything. 

You want to know who i would overpay, easy... trade for Soto.   Make a move like that that helps every night for 9 innings.. not every 5th or 6th for 5. 

Halos do not have players to get Soto.

[Angels 1961]

Young pitchers like Silseth and Daniels add these 2 with Canning, Detmers and Sandoval. Angel's please do not spend 100 or 150 or 200 mill on a pitcher

[Stradling]

7 minutes ago, floplag said:

Strad, Snell, Gray, and Yamamoto are not "depth" guys and not what im talking about.  You know that.  This class is deep with depth, a ton of 3, 4, 5 guys... very few 1s and 2s.   Those 3, 4, 5 arent moving that needle, weve been there done that how many times now?  You are aware of the common definition of insanity yes? 

Do i discredit over payed players, yes i do, especially at positions that continue to lose value year after year in this game as it evolves.   Even moreso when it cripples a team from doing more things it needs to do.  If we didnt let tit do that, i wouldnt care, but we do so it changes everything. 

You want to know who i would overpay, easy... trade for Soto.   Make a move like that that helps every night for 9 innings.. not every 5th or 6th for 5. 

Yea, I disagree.  If you sign a number 3 starter he takes away starts from all the guys that shouldn’t have started the last couple of years.  He takes starts away from Barria, Suarez, Rosenberg and the rest of the 9 guys who had less than 10 starts last year.

[Torridd]

5 hours ago, Buttercup said:

I get the feeling Arte is going to go all in this winter. Didn’t work out well the first time but this could be like the Albert Pujols and CJ Wilson winter meetings. 

I agree. And also going all in gets Ohtani more interested in staying. Is it possible that Ohtani is waiting on what the Angels will do?

[HBAngel13]

I agree they expect to compete. I just don’t agree they can get over the hump with the phantom payroll constraints and two additional mega-contracts. As @jsnpritchett said early in the thread, Snell plus Ohtani in 2024 basically puts you status quo for where we were last year. 
 

I know Snell was the NL Cy Young, but I don’t think he is a perennial TOR arm and he certainly isn’t a guy that’s going to consistently put up 180-200 IP.

[Torridd]

5 hours ago, Hubs said:

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/los-angeles-angels//payroll

Spotrac has a $150M projection as the roster sits today. If you think the Angels get Snell for what Nola got or a bit more, that's $26M say, and Ohtani costs $45M That puts them at $221M. They wont have much left to upgrade other positions. 

What other upgrades do you think we need and how much would they cost? 

[mmc]

2 minutes ago, Torridd said:

What other upgrades do you think we need and how much would they cost? 

An outfielder, an infielder, another starter and about 3 relievers…

[Robrock30]

I like Seth Lugo who has excelled as a SP, middle reliever & closer.  He does it all.

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Robrock30 said:

I like Seth Lugo who has excelled as a SP, middle reliever & closer.  He does it all.

So do a lot of teams.

Sounds like he’s gonna get PAID.

[Taylor]

3 hours ago, floplag said:

Strad, Snell, Gray, and Yamamoto are not "depth" guys and not what im talking about.  

Strad isn't a depth guy?

[Stradling]

31 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Strad isn't a depth guy?

Sigh

[Angel Oracle]

8 hours ago, Hubs said:

It's a middling prospect and relief of Anderson's $13M contract. 

Need to stop giving players like Rengifo away then, just to rid themselves of contracts.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[m0nkey]

Big pass on Snell for me

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

I don’t know jack shit about advanced stats and how to compare players, but how does Snell compare to CJ Wilson when we signed him? 

[Erstad Grit]

12 minutes ago, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

I don’t know jack shit about advanced stats and how to compare players, but how does Snell compare to CJ Wilson when we signed him? 

CJ didn't win 2 cy youngs, and I don't think he was the bust most here think he was. 

[Blarg]

36 minutes ago, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

I don’t know jack shit about advanced stats and how to compare players, but how does Snell compare to CJ Wilson when we signed him? 

Wilson was a strange cat for the Rangers. For four seasons he was an above average reliever in a brutal hitters Park. Then for two seasons he was nails as a starter with a combined 3.42 era and 140 era+ in a stadium that any line drive could be a home run. 

The Angels pick him up and in a completely neutral hitting park has a 3.87 era that makes you think he didn't regress much but when you look at park neutralized stats he was a 96 era+ or just under league average. A crash and burn from his Texas performance. 

Blake Snell has had 2 Cy Young seasons, last season his era+ was 182.  Wilson at his best was 6th in Cy Young. That year Weaver was second to Verlander who also won the MVP.

So between the two, Snell is the far better pitcher. That doesn't mean Snell will be good next year or the next 5 but odds are he will be better than Wilson's 5 years with the Angels.  

[Dtwncbad]

11 hours ago, Taylor said:

You and dtwncbad love your car metaphors that have nothing to do with the situation being discussed.

Wouldn’t need dopey, dumbed down car analogies if certain people could just understand simple points made in normal baseball context.

[Blarg]

Mine use better cars. 

[Halodays]

7 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

Young pitchers like Silseth and Daniels add these 2 with Canning, Detmers and Sandoval. Angel's please do not spend 100 or 150 or 200 mill on a pitcher

Minasian has stated that they want to win and will be aggressive this offseason. I don’t see how adding Daniel’s and Silseth qualifies as being aggressive and helps them win this year. This team needs top of rotation pitchers. Ohtani,Snell and trade for Corbin Burnes. Snell and Burnes lead the staff in 2024 then Ohtani, Snell in 2025. The Angels can extend Burnes(who grew up an Angels fan) or trade him at the deadline for pitching prospects. Would love to see a rotation in 2025 with Ohtani,Burnes and Snell at the front.

[Angel Oracle]

12 hours ago, Pancake Bear said:

Depends whether they go 5 or 6. Also depends whether they trade someone. Currently rotation is Sandoval, Detmers, Canning, and Anderson. Does Canning have options? Because Anderson obviously doesn't, and they aren't sending Detmers or Sandoval down. 

It’s time to go with 5 starters.

Detmers, Canning, Sandoval, Silseth, and Anderson, and use Daniel as long relief and spot starter to allow him to slowly build up innings at a realistic pace.  

Wait a year and then sign one of several FA starters who grew up in SoCal (Burnes, etc.), and then trade Anderson if needed with only a year left on contract.

Focus on the pen, and have starter depth in the high minors.

Edited November 30, 2023 by Angel Oracle

[Inside Pitch]

6 hours ago, Blarg said:

So between the two, Snell is the far better pitcher. That doesn't mean Snell will be good next year or the next 5 but odds are he will be better than Wilson's 5 years with the Angels.  

Its' a lot closer than many people realize -- Snell obviously has had the best individual seasons and the longer track record but the gap isn't as wide as people may believe.

Looking at their most previous seasons you get this

Age 28-30, 83 GS, 436.2 IP, 125 ERA+ 3.36 FIP 1.232 WHIP, 6.6 H/9, 0.9 HR/9, 4.5 BB/9, 11.9 K/9
Age 29-30, 67 GS, 427.1 IP,  142 ERA+ 3.30 FIP, 1.215 WHIP, 7.4 H/9, 0.5 HR/9, 3.5 BB/9, 7.9 K/9

The biggest takeaway for me here and my biggest concern with Snell sticks out like a sore thumb.  Despite starting 16 fewer games (one less season), Wilson only pitched 9.1 fewer innings. Snell is a 5 inning guy in most years.

Snell's walk rate is also worse, yes his K rate is significantly better but some of that is the era we are in. Wilson did a much better job of keeping the ball in the park, the difference in hits allowed is noise considering the environments they pitched in.  Snell's home parks have always been extreme pitcher parks, even after all the changes in SD it's had a pitcher park factor of 93 (100 the average). Wilson by comparison pitched in a park where the pitcher park factor averaged out to 114 his two seasons as a SP.

Snell is talented when he's 100%.  The problem is to be 100% he's tended to need a lot of rest.  Now, if the Angels were to continue having a 6 man rotation maybe they get a lot more out of him but the guy's sketchy health record should be concerning to people, particularly Angel fans that have seen many a season done under by SP injuries.

I think Snell the person is kind of fun, he pops off, says what's on his mind and can be an entertaining interview -- guys like that can have a positive effect on other pitchers to be honest there's a bit of John Lackey in the way he speaks his mind which I always liked about Lackey.  But I do wonder how long he will pitch and how effectively. Guys who rely on being effectively wild (Snell's BB/9 last season was 4.95), are prone to falling off a cliff when they do start to lose their stuff and the movement quiets down.

The sad reality is that dipping into the mid tier of SP tends to end up worse than the top of the FA world so it might be a situation where they are stuck with a highly overpriced slightly better than average or league average SP or a less overpriced and significantly less effective pitcher. 

Pick your poison.

[Inside Pitch]

Snell BTW has been quoted by Cotillo and others as really wanting to pitch for the Mariners -- he's a local from Shoreline just north of Seattle -- chances are as a M's fan he grew up hating the Angels because that's their side jobs.

[Robrock30]

9 hours ago, BTH said:

So do a lot of teams.

Sounds like he’s gonna get PAID.

He deserves a nice deal and his Mom is on Twitter