Feinsand: Angels are “very interested” in Blake Snell

[Angels 1961]

5 hours ago, Halodays said:

Minasian has stated that they want to win and will be aggressive this offseason. I don’t see how adding Daniel’s and Silseth qualifies as being aggressive and helps them win this year. This team needs top of rotation pitchers. Ohtani,Snell and trade for Corbin Burnes. Snell and Burnes lead the staff in 2024 then Ohtani, Snell in 2025. The Angels can extend Burnes(who grew up an Angels fan) or trade him at the deadline for pitching prospects. Would love to see a rotation in 2025 with Ohtani,Burnes and Snell at the front.

What young talent do Angels have to get Burnes? So many other teams would have better players to offer. Maybe Silseth or Daniels can be the next Burnes given some time. Brewers will be in rebuild wanting good young players who are MLB ready. They are going to extend 19 year old and build a team around him. 

[Inside Pitch]

13 hours ago, Stradling said:

Yea, I disagree.  If you sign a number 3 starter he takes away starts from all the guys that shouldn’t have started the last couple of years.  He takes starts away from Barria, Suarez, Rosenberg and the rest of the 9 guys who had less than 10 starts last year.

This team hasn't sniffed the postseason in nearly 10 years -- a rotation of five number 3's, 165 IP league average (100-105 ERA+). would go a long ways towards getting them there than what they have had.

The last time they were over .500 they had three guys top 150 IP, and four guys with an ERA+ between 97 (CJ WIlson), and 108 (Heaney).

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

This team hasn't sniffed the postseason in nearly 10 years -- a rotation of five number 3's, 165 IP league average (100-105 ERA+). would go a long ways towards getting them there than what they have had.

The last time they were over .500 they had three guys top 150 IP, and four guys with an ERA+ between 97 (CJ WIlson), and 108 (Heaney).

Been saying this for years. If we could have five guys give us 20+ starts of #3 production we would’ve made the playoffs a handful of times the last decade.

We have a lot of inconsistent/ceiling of #3’s, not a rotation of #3s. 

Snell is way too risky and I like next years big money arms more. Get 2 guys this year on 1-3 year deals and plunk down pen money, add a mid-tier bat if you’re able. 

[Erstad Grit]

Snell isn't perfect, but he's a damn good pitcher 

Aren't y'all tired of signing the Terehan, quintana, Noah S, etc? 

I'd rather have 25 mil per year for snell than 15 mil per year on another bust.

If our franchise excelled at finding or fixing SP it would work but we don't

[totdprods]

6 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Snell isn't perfect, but he's a damn good pitcher 

Aren't y'all tired of signing the Terehan, quintana, Noah S, etc? 

I'd rather have 25 mil per year for snell than 15 mil per year on another bust.

If our franchise excelled at finding or fixing SP it would work but we don't

He’s a good pitcher, but there are a lot of good pitchers available next year too who feel a whole heck of a lot safer investment.

If they sign Snell, cool, let’s do this, but man I think that contract is gonna hurt. I know he’s effectively wild now, but signing a guy who led the league in walks, has a .500 WP% if you remove his best year, is coming from a pitcher-friendly ballpark and division, all while averaging just a hair over 5 innings per game screams a landmine. He’s been brilliant in his two Cy seasons, but a 1-2 WAR pitcher in every other. 

If we’re gonna sign a frontline lefty, I’ll say go land Eduardo Rodriguez for a 4-5 year deal around $100m/$20-25m AAV, then try to sign Burnes or one of the other SoCal guys next winter. Burnes, ERod, Detmers, Canning, Sandoval.

[Halodays]

2 hours ago, Angels 1961 said:

What young talent do Angels have to get Burnes? So many other teams would have better players to offer. Maybe Silseth or Daniels can be the next Burnes given some time. Brewers will be in rebuild wanting good young players who are MLB ready. They are going to extend 19 year old and build a team around him. 

That’s the thing, the Angels are not in the want to wait mode. Either one of the pitchers you mentioned or both in a package for Burnes might help get it done but they will probably have to include a couple more prospects. Maybe the Brewers would be willing to take Sandoval or Detmers to lessen the prospect load.

[Dtwncbad]

Angel fan:  We need better players and we need starting pitching.  Arte needs to step up.

Media report:  Angels interested in front line starting pitching.

Angel fan: That guy has flaws (like 99.9% of pitchers) and will be expensive.  Pass.

Angel fan:  We need better players and we need starting pitching.  Arte needs to step up.

 

 

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Halodays said:

That’s the thing, the Angels are not in the want to wait mode. Either one of the pitchers you mentioned or both in a package for Burnes might help get it done but they will probably have to include a couple more prospects. Maybe the Brewers would be willing to take Sandoval or Detmers to lessen the prospect load.

I’d move Sandoval for Burnes, but it’d have to be close to a 1:1 and that ain’t happening. Unless they threw in Yelich or Adames. Also not happening. 

We don’t match up particularly well with the Brewers, unless we’re sending them pitching, and even then it’d likelier be for some of their ridiculous outfield depth. Maybe Adames. Maybe Devin Williams. Sandoval being able involved in a Burnes trade basically just opens another rotation spot they need to spend to fill. 

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

Angel fan:  We need better players and we need starting pitching.  Arte needs to step up.

Media report:  Angels interested in front line starting pitching.

Angel fan: That guy has flaws (like 99.9% of pitchers) and will be expensive.  Pass.

Angel fan:  We need better players and we need starting pitching.  Arte needs to step up.

You know it’s not that black and white. 

Blake Snell and Eduardo Rodriguez are both frontline arms. Both have flaws. One will cost $100m more than the other, yet both have nearly the same career WAR.

Both will be age 31 season next year, ERod has pitched 200 more career innings. Snell’s ERA is 3.20, ERod is 4.00, WHIP is about even 1.23 Snell vs ERod 1.29. FIP is 3.44 Snell to 3.85 ERod.

I’ll take the steadier production from ERod, even if it’s a step down from Snell’s ceiling, and use that extra $100m on more players this year or next.

[EdmontonAngelsFan]

33 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

Snell isn't perfect, but he's a damn good pitcher 

Aren't y'all tired of signing the Terehan, quintana, Noah S, etc? 

I'd rather have 25 mil per year for snell than 15 mil per year on another bust.

If our franchise excelled at finding or fixing SP it would work but we don't

100%.

And we can sign another of those top-tier pitchers next off-season as well. Adding even a #2 starter to this rotation always helps.

[Halodays]

5 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I’d move Sandoval for Burnes, but it’d have to be close to a 1:1 and that ain’t happening. Unless they threw in Yelich or Adames. Also not happening. 

We don’t match up particularly well with the Brewers, unless we’re sending them pitching, and even then it’d likelier be for some of their ridiculous outfield depth. Maybe Adames. Maybe Devin Williams. Sandoval being able involved in a Burnes trade basically just opens another rotation spot they need to spend to fill. 

It’s easier to find starters available to fill the 3-5 slots than a top of the rotation starter so if that were case I’d would welcome it.

[Dtwncbad]

57 minutes ago, totdprods said:

You know it’s not that black and white. 

Blake Snell and Eduardo Rodriguez are both frontline arms. Both have flaws. One will cost $100m more than the other, yet both have nearly the same career WAR.

Both will be age 31 season next year, ERod has pitched 200 more career innings. Snell’s ERA is 3.20, ERod is 4.00, WHIP is about even 1.23 Snell vs ERod 1.29. FIP is 3.44 Snell to 3.85 ERod.

I’ll take the steadier production from ERod, even if it’s a step down from Snell’s ceiling, and use that extra $100m on more players this year or next.

I don’t recall any free agent starting pitcher where a whole population of fans didn’t say “Too expensive, pass” yet still complain that the team needs better players.  That was my point.

[Angels 1961]

33 minutes ago, Dtwncbad said:

I don’t recall any free agent starting pitcher where a whole population of fans didn’t say “Too expensive, pass” yet still complain that the team needs better players.  That was my point.

We need really good players who are cheap.

[Chitown27Fan]

As a fan base it is so easy to look past the flaws of your teams players because many have been there and seen them play or connected to them some how and it blinds you to some of there flaws. While an outsider / free agent most just look at the dollar amount and the flaws as there is no connection to that player other then what they see on TV or read online to make there judgment. Seams we always think the price is to high or we have better then we do at least for the last several years. at some point we have to say the guys are what they are and take the chance to move on from some of them. I am not saying to trade the youngest guys but at this point we know what Ward is and his best season has past us by I think we know that Renjifo is streaky and porobably will be the rest of his MLB days we know Sandavol will have a fit after a bad call or misplay and probably walk the next 2 guys while walking around the mound and pouting. If we can trade any of these guys for a proven #1 guy we should take our chance in my opinion that dont mean I think this group gets us that but if it could you do it. 

[BTH]

2 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

Snell isn't perfect, but he's a damn good pitcher 

Aren't y'all tired of signing the Terehan, quintana, Noah S, etc? 

I'd rather have 25 mil per year for snell than 15 mil per year on another bust.

Exactly.

A bad year from Snell is 24 starts with a league average ERA.

A bad year from Tyler Anderson is borderline un-playable.

Sure, a Michael Wacha could match Snell’s production. He could also match Tyler Anderson’s 2023 production.

[AngelStew43]

If we can sign Snell, then it is possible that we could use one of Canning or Sandoval in a Burnes trade, IMO.  

I wouldn't be against getting Yelich if one of Ward, Moniak, or Adell is moved. 

[Dtwncbad]

32 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

We need really good players who are cheap.

Have you looked at the roster lately?  They are there.  What we need now is to supplement that core of good players that are cheap so that the team can compete.

[Angelsfan1984]

I think taking on Yelich almost makes the deal easier. Would lower the prospect cost and fill an outfield hole.

Give me Yelich and Schanuel in front of Trout all day long.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, Erstad Grit said:

Snell isn't perfect, but he's a damn good pitcher 

Aren't y'all tired of signing the Terehan, quintana, Noah S, etc? 

I'd rather have 25 mil per year for snell than 15 mil per year on another bust.

If our franchise excelled at finding or fixing SP it would work but we don't

The Angels have signed exactly one FA pitcher to a deal worth 15 mil per year in the last 5+ years that I can remember -- Syndergaard who's 105 ERA+ was better than two of Snells last 5 years.

The issue hasn't been them spending on pitchers that cost 15 mil per, the issue has been them NOT spending on pitchers that cost 15 mil per -- mostly reclamation projects or guys looking to rebound.  Of the three guys you mentioned two of them didn't even make more than 9 mil.

Truth is it wouldn't have even taken that much -- they passed over guys who were solid in favor of trying to catch lightning in a bottle.  Wade Miley, Gausman, Pineda, Gibson, all signed deals for less than 10 mil a year -- they just weren't sexy names.  

[T.G.]

3 hours ago, totdprods said:

Been saying this for years. If we could have five guys give us 20+ starts of #3 production we would’ve made the playoffs a handful of times the last decade.

I'm curious, how many teams have had five guys give them 150+ innings in a season recently? Is it a lot? I have no idea.

[Chuck]

20 minutes ago, Angelsfan1984 said:

I think taking on Yelich almost makes the deal easier. Would lower the prospect cost and fill an outfield hole.

Give me Yelich and Schanuel in front of Trout all day long.

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

they passed over guys who were solid in favor of trying to catch lightning in a bottle.

Ironically, that’s Snell to me, just on a much higher level.

22 career WAR, and 13 of that in two seasons of 6 and 7 WAR. Every other year he’s 1-2 WAR max. Griffin Canning was 2 WAR last year.

I know it’s not a fantastic measure of success or indicator of future success, but to me that really emphasizes how erratic he is. When he’s on, he is quite literally one of, if not the, best SP in baseball. Problem is the track record indicates you may only get that once or twice on this deal, and just a #3-4 guy the other years. 

Couple that with the fact he’s getting older and led the league in walks, I can’t see him being a worthy gamble. Not when 2024-25 are probably his best bets be a frontline arm when he have too many other needs. 

[totdprods]

4 minutes ago, T.G. said:

I'm curious, how many teams have had five guys give them 150+ innings in a season recently? Is it a lot? I have no idea.

For one, Rangers last year. At least 5 SP with 20+ GS and 140 IP. Gray, Heaney and Perez all had ERAs in the 4s and profile comfortably as #3-types.

More commonly, browsing around looks like best teams had 3 guys throw around 170-200, maybe a 4th around 120, and then around 90-100 for next most frequent starters. 

My opinion for awhile has been that having a rotation worth of durable guys who are just a hair above-average - #3 types - is more than enough if you have a good, well rounded offense, and a deep bullpen. It’s easier to build for that model than it is to buy/acquire a model with two frontline arms. 

[totdprods]

The Angels need many more good players. Blake Snell is a very good player - but will prevent the Angels from getting other good players. 

[Inside Pitch]

4 minutes ago, T.G. said:

I'm curious, how many teams have had five guys give them 150+ innings in a season recently? Is it a lot? I have no idea.

 
AL West --  Houston had four guys if you look at Verlander's season as a whole and then another guy that gave them 136 innings
Seattle had three, another gave them 130+ and the 5th spot saw them replace one guy with another and they got 130+ out of that spot too. Texas had 5 guys throw at least 141 innings -- all of them posting ERA+ figures above 100 and only two of them were above 108 -- essentially GOOD number three types.

AL East -- Toronto 4 with 160 plus, all of them 110 ERA+ .  BMore 3, only one of them was better than league average (100).  NYY had two but they like TB saw their rotation get hit hard with injuries. 

AL Central -- Minn had 3 over 160 another at 140.  CWS would have had four had they not traded away two of them.  The Royals had 3.

Thats more than people likely expected to see given the age of pitch counts and twice through the lineup.