July 19 to now - Mariners vs. Angels

[Angelsjunky]

AL West:

Angels 49-48

Mariners 47-48

Since then:

Angels 13-19

Mariners 24-8

The Mariners are in a wildcard berth and 0.5 GB the Rangers for the division lead, while the Angels are 11 GB 1st and 9.5 GB the wildcard.

That's a bit more than five weeks. If you go back a month further to June 16, the Angels are 40-32, 4 games ahead of the Mariners at 34-34.

Anyhow, the Mariners passed the Angels on July 22 and it has been a tale of two second halves since.

Not really have anything more to say, but I suppose it points out the volatility of baseball. The Mariners were playing .500 ball most of the season, then got hot in late July and have been among the best teams since, with a real chance at winning the West.

The Mariners are a balanced team, their best player being Julio Rodriguez who, at 4.8 WAR, is 9th in the majors among position players. Their next best players is Cal Raleigh (3.4, 30th) and then JP Crawford (2.7, 48th). Their best pitcher is George Kirby (3.9, 6th), then Luis Castillo (2.9, 14th) and Logan Gilbert (2.7, 19th).

Overall, their team pitching WAR of 18.2 is best in the AL and 2nd best in MLB; their position player WAR of 19.8 is 6th in the majors; and their Def Runs of 7.2 is 9th in the majors. In other words, they are a very balanced team, with no significant weaknesses. They're deep, with a range of stars to solid secondary players. 

Anyhow, I hate to say it, but kudos to Jerry Dipoto and his team. They've done well.

[Swordsman78]

Plus not getting ravaged by injuries probably was a factor 

[ScottT]

Crazy.

I could see it happening the other way, too

[thebloob]

1 hour ago, Swordsman78 said:

Plus not getting ravaged by injuries probably was a factor 

Yeah the angels pitching staff was ravaged by injuries all year. Perhaps building an older core makes injuries more of a threat.   Lots of young teams doing well, lots of high dollar older teams doing poorly. 

[Ender]

1 hour ago, Swordsman78 said:

Plus not getting ravaged by injuries probably was a factor 

Not that it has mattered but we did lose robbie ray in the first game he pitched of the year to TJ. Marco Gonzales has been gone a while.

Ray's useful and missed. Marco not so much.

Have not had any devastating injuries offense wise though. Just carried dead weight kolten wong and aj pollock too long.

[gurn67]

I know it's an unpopular thing to say here, but Jerry Dipoto is much better at his job than any of the guys that followed him here. Scoreboard.

[EternalHaloOptimist]

Yup, the Mariners are doing exactly what we Angels fans hoped our squad would be doing. Also, things are breaking right in terms of the AL West / Wild Card teams all trending the wrong direction -- the Rangers are currently in freefall losing 8 in a row. 

How Can You Not Be Romantic About Baseball?

[Taylor]

Must be fun being a Mariners fan right now. 

[bruin5]

7 hours ago, gurn67 said:

I know it's an unpopular thing to say here, but Jerry Dipoto is much better at his job than any of the guys that followed him here. Scoreboard.

DiPoto was given much more latitude to tear down the team he inherited and stock minor league talent. Neither Eppler or Minasian had anything resembling that chance. It’s not like DiPoto lit it up during his tenure in Anaheim. 

Apples to oranges comparison. 

[DMVol]

7 hours ago, gurn67 said:

I know it's an unpopular thing to say here, but Jerry Dipoto is much better at his job than any of the guys that followed him here. Scoreboard.

I think Dipoto gets credit for job he’s done in Seattle… I don’t think you can judge Minasian yet…And I don’t think Dipoto did a great job with the Angels…Eppler inherited a weak farm system and very little international talent from Dipoto…The lack of International talent goes back to Reagins but Dipoto made it worse by using all of his allotted money for an awful signing of Baldoquin…We don’t know the entire story but Pujols and Hamilton were signed on Dipoto’s watch…maybe Arte forced those signings on him but it’s hard to give Dipoto a total pass there.

[totdprods]

I hate Dipoto, thought he was a bad GM then and a bad GM now, but @bruin5 is right in that they can’t be compared. Eppler and Minasian have had to work with much less as a result of Dipoto.

I will say though that I think Dipoto actually learned something about his time as GM in Anaheim - the Angels didn’t. Jerry found a way to still trade aggressively but also build and maintain a young core concurrently. Not a great system but he’s found a way to make it work there that he didn’t know how to do in Anaheim - and I don’t think that’s an Arte thing. Jerry actually learned something and grew from it. Their little 1-2 year rebuild they did is exactly something the Angels should’ve done at least once in the last half-decade.

Edited August 26, 2023 by totdprods

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I think Dipoto gets credit for job he’s done in Seattle… I don’t think you can judge Minasian yet…And I don’t think Dipoto did a great job with the Angels…Eppler inherited a weak farm system and very little international talent from Dipoto…The lack of International talent goes back to Reagins but Dipoto made it worse by using all of his allotted money for an awful signing of Baldoquin…We don’t know the entire story but Pujols and Hamilton were signed on Dipoto’s watch…maybe Arte forced those signings on him but it’s hard to give Dipoto a total pass there.

I have no idea if Arte forced Hamilton, I doubt it, I am positive Arte approved it or the signing wouldn’t have happened. But as @Inside Pitch pointed out years ago, there’s an ESPN the Magazine article from January of 2012, that breaks down Dipotos pursuit of Albert and in that article it states Dipoto went to Arte with the idea and plan very early on after being hired.  He also took every ounce of credit for the signing. I think fans believe it was Arte signings because Arte met with both Albert and Hamilton in person.  Albert to help close the deal and Josh to see if he was a changed man. Fans also believe it was Arte because the signings failed and everyone hates Arte. Gotta have villains these days. 

[Inside Pitch]

I don't like the Mariners, but watching 1995 replay itself with the Rangers in the Angels role is kind of entertaining.

[bruin5]

1 hour ago, DMVol said:

I think Dipoto gets credit for job he’s done in Seattle… I don’t think you can judge Minasian yet…And I don’t think Dipoto did a great job with the Angels…Eppler inherited a weak farm system and very little international talent from Dipoto…The lack of International talent goes back to Reagins but Dipoto made it worse by using all of his allotted money for an awful signing of Baldoquin…We don’t know the entire story but Pujols and Hamilton were signed on Dipoto’s watch…maybe Arte forced those signings on him but it’s hard to give Dipoto a total pass there.

I can’t find the date but wasn’t part of the international talent problem the scandal that caused Arte to pretty much close the operation? 

[bruin5]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I have no idea if Arte forced Hamilton, I doubt it, I am positive Arte approved it or the signing wouldn’t have happened. But as @Inside Pitch pointed out years ago, there’s an ESPN the Magazine article from January of 2012, that breaks down Dipotos pursuit of Albert and in that article it states Dipoto went to Arte with the idea and plan very early on after being hired.  He also took every ounce of credit for the signing. I think fans believe it was Arte signings because Arte met with both Albert and Hamilton in person.  Albert to help close the deal and Josh to see if he was a changed man. Fans also believe it was Arte because the signings failed and everyone hates Arte. Gotta have villains these days. 

IIRC, the prevailing thought at that time was that Arte wanted to make a big splash signing because they had just signed a large broadcasting rights contract with Fox Sports West. It could be both are true- Arte wanted a splash hire, and DiPoto found the right candidate (Pujols was the biggest name out there that year so it’s not like he had to do a lot of research). 

[Stradling]

Just now, bruin5 said:

IIRC, the prevailing thought at that time was that Arte wanted to make a big splash signing because they had just signed a large broadcasting rights contract with Fox Sports West. It could be both are true- Arte wanted a splash hire, and DiPoto found the right candidate (Pujols was the biggest name out there that year so it’s not like he had to do a lot of research). 

Actually, the TV contract was announced just after the Albert signing, if I recall correctly it was days later.  

[bruin5]

Just now, Stradling said:

Actually, the TV contract was announced just after the Albert signing, if I recall correctly it was days later.  

So, it could have been part of the negotiation process. If I was Fox, I would want to announce first and then market the signing of a superstar. I’m just speculating, but I do believe that these events weren’t unrelated. 

[Revad]

13 hours ago, Ender said:

Not that it has mattered but we did lose robbie ray in the first game he pitched of the year to TJ. Marco Gonzales has been gone a while.

Ray's useful and missed. Marco not so much.

Have not had any devastating injuries offense wise though. Just carried dead weight kolten wong and aj pollock too long.

Injuries happen and then it’s about depth.

[AngelsFaninGA]

2 hours ago, totdprods said:

I hate Dipoto, thought he was a bad GM then and a bad GM now, but @bruin5 is right in that they can’t be compared. Eppler and Minasian have had to work with much less as a result of Dipoto.

I will say though that I think Dipoto actually learned something about his time as GM in Anaheim - the Angels didn’t. Jerry found a way to still trade aggressively but also build and maintain a young core concurrently. Not a great system but he’s found a way to make it work there that he didn’t know how to do in Anaheim - and I don’t think that’s an Arte thing. Jerry actually learned something and grew from it. Their little 1-2 year rebuild they did is exactly something the Angels should’ve done at least once in the last half-decade.

That's another downside of hiring novices to save money. Some of them will learn from their mistakes but they'll also tend to make their worst ones at their first stop, like Dipoto did with us. 

[Inside Pitch]

1 hour ago, bruin5 said:

IIRC, the prevailing thought at that time was that Arte wanted to make a big splash signing because they had just signed a large broadcasting rights contract with Fox Sports West. It could be both are true- Arte wanted a splash hire, and DiPoto found the right candidate (Pujols was the biggest name out there that year so it’s not like he had to do a lot of research). 

The article Strad is pointing to was pretty straight forward. 

It was actually a cover story for ESPN The Mag, and had links to other Angels stories including how the Angels front office had come into a StL Cardinals SOP book they were mining for info.  JD and company were bragging about how their cloak and dagger games had led to AP and the Cards inside data.  

Revisionist history won out and JD was pretty much absolved of any blame for AP  -- it also helps that when ESPN shuttered The Mag, a lot of those stories went by bye.  Sucks because the article went a long ways towards scuttling the "IT WAS ARTE" narrative.  I mean, it's not like he hasn't been the guy to blame at times, just not on the AP thing.

To be fair to JD and company -- absolutely NOBODY expected APs decline to be so awful and had it not been for the advent of the shift, it wouldn't have been.

[DMVol]

3 hours ago, bruin5 said:

I can’t find the date but wasn’t part of the international talent problem the scandal that caused Arte to pretty much close the operation? 

Yes, happened under Reagins….but what limited International allotment money we had after the scandal, Dipoto used on Baldoquin…IP is aware of the details with the scandal and he can correct me if I’m wrong…

[stormngt]

11 hours ago, DMVol said:

I think Dipoto gets credit for job he’s done in Seattle… I don’t think you can judge Minasian yet…And I don’t think Dipoto did a great job with the Angels…Eppler inherited a weak farm system and very little international talent from Dipoto…The lack of International talent goes back to Reagins but Dipoto made it worse by using all of his allotted money for an awful signing of Baldoquin…We don’t know the entire story but Pujols and Hamilton were signed on Dipoto’s watch…maybe Arte forced those signings on him but it’s hard to give Dipoto a total pass there.

Baldoquin signing prevented the Angeks from maling a bid for Vlad Jr.

 

Vlad Jr did sign for less than Baldoquin

[m0nkey]

The first place Seattle mariners 

[UndertheHalo]

26 minutes ago, m0nkey said:

The first place Seattle mariners 

Maybe they’re peaking early.  Or maybe the Rangers are going to continue eating shit the rest of the way.  In any case.  I hope everyone has a good time. 

[Angelsjunky]

20 hours ago, stormngt said:

Baldoquin signing prevented the Angeks from maling a bid for Vlad Jr.

 

Vlad Jr did sign for less than Baldoquin

I definitely hear your point, but Vlad has been rather disappointing. I suspect he'll bounce back, but 2021 is starting to look like an anomaly. Here are his wRC+ by year, going back to 2019: 106, 110, 166, 132, 116. 

Hard to know who the real Vlad Jr is. I suppose he might be a bit like Bryce Harper, and range from pretty good to MVP seasons. But a couple years ago he looked like he might be one of the two or three best hitters in the game. Not so sure now.

Still, I'd much rather have him than the sweet memory of Baldoquin.