The Best Path Forward

[LaPalma]

31 minutes ago, ylangel said:

He'll be 30 next year.  Can't survive in a 5 man rotation, so forces his team to carry 6 starters (and that 6th starter usually results in a loss), has no position in the field and is showing signs of breaking down (cramping?).  Dude is massively overvalued.  We should wish him well and move on.

He’s had one of the best seasons by any player ever, and this is your take?  Maybe if he didn’t have to be the staff ace AND best player on offense by a mile…..

Whoever gets him will be very happy, maybe Angels fans don’t deserve him if they’re this thick.  But at least we still have Trout at 35 million a year and 3 WAR if we’re lucky.

[gurn67]

They blew up the path forward when they thought this team could actually make the playoffs. lol

The only way this team is going to make the playoffs any time soon is if Arte sells, and the new owners are able to petition Manfred into moving into the AL Central.

[Chuck]

We cover this and more in our podcast that we recorded tonight. 

[cjcinec]

6 hours ago, ScottSted said:

The best step forward is Arte to sell, the entire FO cleaned out, Nevin gone, only keep Trout and try to win when he’s an old man. Reality sucks. 

I agree. I would actually try to find a home for Trout as well and give him a shot a the post season. Tired of being the red headed stepchild of LA so a new owner with the resources to build a new stadium would really go far in turning things around. Forget about Ohtani because as good as he is he can’t save this team and while a really long term Pujols contract might look good for the first part it will be an albatross once this unicorn two way player begins to age. Retool the farm system and get a young manager that’s not a retread and has the confidence and commitment to build a roster that can compete for a decade without the huge mega bucks type superstar contracts. Steal some front office personnel from models like the Astros, Rays, Blue Jays and Orioles that find a develop people Every year. This current organization doesn’t have a clue.

[Blarg]

4 hours ago, Lhalo said:

I don’t mind Nevin but Arte is pure shit on a stick. This organization has been raped, lit on fire, robbed and raped. They won’t make the playoffs until he sells. 

 

[ylangel]

1 hour ago, LaPalma said:

He’s had one of the best seasons by any player ever, and this is your take?  Maybe if he didn’t have to be the staff ace AND best player on offense by a mile…..

Whoever gets him will be very happy, maybe Angels fans don’t deserve him if they’re this thick.  But at least we still have Trout at 35 million a year and 3 WAR if we’re lucky.

Nice sound bites.  I stand by my position.  He doesn't help his team win.  Should have traded him last year when his values was at its peak.  Arty decided to Milk him for revenue.  Time to move on.

[AngelsLakersFan]

5 hours ago, UndertheHalo said:

It doesn’t make any sense to trade Detmers, Canning, Sandoval, Silseth, Neto, O’Hoppe, and Moniak.  These are all young controlled players.  Why the fuck would you trade players like this for prospects?  Completely pointless.  What’s the saying? A bird in hand is worth two in the bush? In this case it’s more like 4 in the bush.  And to be clear.  These are the assets that the Angels have that are valuable.  These are they guys you’re moving for your rebuild. 

They should re sign Giolito, since he’s the kind of FA pitcher they’ve been needing anyway to anchor the rotation of young guys with Anderson.  It’s good they have Drury as he’s a needed hole plugger. Hopefully they can keep Ohtani.  Otherwise they don’t have any choice really but to spend the money to plug the holes in the roster. 
 

Again, why do we think they’ll execute a successful rebuild if they can’t manage putting a winner on the field with the built in handicap that is Ohtani and Trout.  Now is not the time to bail on the young group they have which is better then what they’ve had in a while.  They’re $$$ committed to Trout and that worthless asshole Rendon.  “Rebuilding” is just subbing the young players we have that are big leaguers for more young prospects that may or may not be big leaguers and watching Trout get older. 

There probably isn’ta path forward that leads to contention in the next 4-5 years, barring Minasian acquiring some sort of crystal ball.

[UndertheHalo]

48 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

There probably isn’ta path forward that leads to contention in the next 4-5 years, barring Minasian acquiring some sort of crystal ball.

All they can do is try and keep Ohtani, hope the young guys they’ve got pan out to some degree and smartly plug the holes with money.  That’s it.  Also, if they can’t keep Ohtani that’s also all they can do. There’s nothing else. They can’t actually do a rebuild.  Hopefully they draft well.  
 

they can also try and be opportunistic and steal good prospects from loser franchises like royals, reds, guardians, pirates, etc.  that sort.  You can literally buy good prospects from these clubs if you eat shit on guys they don’t want to pay.  Fat chance Arte will do that tho.  Anyway. 

Edited August 7, 2023 by UndertheHalo

[SoCalDucksFan]

3 hours ago, cjcinec said:

I agree. I would actually try to find a home for Trout as well and give him a shot a the post season. Tired of being the red headed stepchild of LA so a new owner with the resources to build a new stadium would really go far in turning things around. Forget about Ohtani because as good as he is he can’t save this team and while a really long term Pujols contract might look good for the first part it will be an albatross once this unicorn two way player begins to age. Retool the farm system and get a young manager that’s not a retread and has the confidence and commitment to build a roster that can compete for a decade without the huge mega bucks type superstar contracts. Steal some front office personnel from models like the Astros, Rays, Blue Jays and Orioles that find a develop people Every year. This current organization doesn’t have a clue.

No team is going to be dumb enough to take on Trout's contract at this point.  Especially now that he's starting to become more injury prone.  The time to trade him would have been 2 years ago.  He needs a team that's dumb enough to overpay an aging former superstar like Pujols.  Unfortunately, that's the team he's already on.

[Blarg]

The Yankees would take Trout the moment Minasian makes the call. But Trout decides if Trout gets traded, no one else, so your argument is null. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Blarg said:

The Yankees would take Trout the moment Minasian makes the call. But Trout decides if Trout gets traded, no one else, so your argument is null. 

Philly would also take him. Possibly Baltimore. 

[SoCalDucksFan]

Point on Trout is moot, because he'll soon be the only marketable player the Angels will have on their roster.  They're already going to take a big hit on ticket sales when Ohtani leaves.

[LaPalma]

9 hours ago, SoCalDucksFan said:

No team is going to be dumb enough to take on Trout's contract at this point.  Especially now that he's starting to become more injury prone.  The time to trade him would have been 2 years ago.  He needs a team that's dumb enough to overpay an aging former superstar like Pujols.  Unfortunately, that's the team he's already on.

Three of the last four seasons at or below 3 WAR yet people think anyone would take his nearly 40MM dollar per year contract.  Delusional.

[Amazing Larry]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

Philly would also take him. Possibly Baltimore. 

I would love to see Trout paired up with Harper.

[Blarg]

3 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

I would love to see Trout paired up with Harper.

They would make a really good bridge team on the IL together.

[Angelsjunky]

11 hours ago, ylangel said:

Arty decided to Milk him 

Gross.

[Angelsjunky]

A lot depends upon Shohei, but maybe not as much as we might think. It seems unlikely that the Angels will be doing a complete overhaul anytime soon, with or without Ohtani. And maybe they shouldn't. I mean, they have a core of solid players. This year is disappointing, but they hung around or over .500 for most of the year, despite losing nearly everyone to injury.

It is easier said than done, but perhaps the biggest question going into the offseason is: How to avoid injuries, at least to this degree? And what are the contingency plans?

Part of the reason they hung in there is that Perry at least partially addressed depth. It wasn't enough, but given the amount of injuries, it could have been a lot worse. I mean, consider that the Angels were healthier in 2022 and did significantly worse.

The best solution to injury is having a thriving farm, with numerous prospects in the high minors chomping at the bit for a chance. But the Angels don't have that, so Perry has to be crafty - perhaps take one from the Billy Beane toolbox and look for player's whose perceived value is less than their actual (or potential) value. The Scott Hattebergs of the world.

Perhaps the most unfortunate aspect of this year is that the full collapse (the last week or two) didn't happen until after the deadline. Otherwise Perry could have made some savvy trades for Hatteberg types, to build up depth.

 

[Anthony Tendon]

Lolol this thread is more knee jerk than the reddit sub. Cheapskate Arte and trade O'Hoppe? Smfh

[Slegnaac]

15 hours ago, ylangel said:

He'll be 30 next year.  Can't survive in a 5 man rotation, so forces his team to carry 6 starters (and that 6th starter usually results in a loss), has no position in the field and is showing signs of breaking down (cramping?).  Dude is massively overvalued.  We should wish him well and move on.

Ohtani is counted as a Non-Pitcher on the roster.

You have to have the same number of pitchers with him or without him.

His starts should really be considered a Bonus.  If the team cannot find 5 decent starters that is on Management,  not Ohtani.

[AngelsFaninGA]

10 hours ago, Stradling said:

Philly would also take him. Possibly Baltimore. 

Why Baltimore? They seem to have too much prospect depth to take on Trout's salary. Philly wouldn't surprise me though. 

[Stradling]

4 minutes ago, AngelsFaninGA said:

Why Baltimore? They seem to have too much prospect depth to take on Trout's salary. Philly wouldn't surprise me though. 

For that exact reason. They have a ton of good young affordable talent. They can afford a couple big contracts and have zero big contracts. 

[UndertheHalo]

Assuming Ohtani walks and Trout ok’s the exploration of a trade.  Even if Arte is agreeable and the Angels keep half of Trouts salary - what kind of prospect package do we think we’ll get back? 
 

I don’t know man.  They would probably get a couple of solid prospects, maybe 1 very good one. I really question the value of what they’d get vs. just keeping him.  Would 2 or 3 good prospects really do much for a rebuild? I don’t know.  I doubt it .  Again, eating half of his salary.  And considering the core group of young guys they finally have.  It’s hard for me to see it making sense.  

Edited August 7, 2023 by UndertheHalo

[Angelsjunky]

19 hours ago, TroutField said:

I think it’s going to take a LONG rebuild. That includes trading Sandoval, Detmers, Canning, Drury, hell even O’hoppe and Moniak. Plan on competing again in 2027-2028. This shit is broken and there is nobody that’s going to impact the major league roster to the point of us being competitive in our minor league system. 

I'm sorry, but there is literally zero reason to trade O'Hoppe. He's a 23-year old catcher who is plus on both sides of the plate, the pitchers like him, and he's got FIVE full seasons of club control after 2023. He's almost certainly going to be at least a 3-4 WAR player. There's literally no rebuilding plan in which you get rid of a guy like this (i.e. no one plans to compete in 6+ years).

Now if the Angels still suck in 3-4 years, maybe you trade O'Hoppe. Maybe.

I can see Moniak, if someone over-values him due to his hot streak this year and offers a higher upside prospect or good young pitcher.

Edited August 7, 2023 by Angelsjunky

[Jason]

35 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

Assuming Ohtani walks and Trout ok’s the exploration of a trade.  Even if Arte is agreeable and the Angels keep half of Trouts salary - what kind of prospect package do we think we’ll get back? 
 

I don’t know man.  They would probably get a couple of solid prospects, maybe 1 very good one. I really question the value of what they’d get vs. just keeping him.  Would 2 or 3 good prospects really do much for a rebuild? I don’t know.  I doubt it .  Again, eating half of his salary.  And considering the core group of young guys they finally have.  It’s hard for me to see it making sense.  

Not to sound like an ass but if you could get some young, legit talent for a player that rarely plays, then you have to consider it. 

[AngelFanInTheATL]

19 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I'm sorry, but there is literally zero reason to trade O'Hoppe. He's a 23-year old catcher who is plus on both sides of the plate, the pitchers like him, and he's got FIVE full seasons of club control after 2023. He's almost certainly going to be at least a 3-4 WAR player. There's literally no rebuilding plan in which you get rid of a guy like this (i.e. no one plans to compete in 6+ years).

Now if the Angels still suck in 3-4 years, maybe you trade O'Hoppe. Maybe.

I can see Moniak, if someone over-values him due to his hot streak this year and offers a higher upside prospect or good young pitcher.

That's a lot to assume from 53 at-bats this season. You're putting him up there with Matt Olson, Jose Ramirez and Cody Bellinger.