Official 2022-23 Offseason Hot Stove Thread

[Warfarin]

20 minutes ago, Make Angels Great Again said:

 

I'm really struggling to understand this one for the Braves.

They trade away a good catcher (all-star actually), to get a different good catcher (who is possibly slightly worse, but probably a lateral move) who is 3 years older and has less control, while also expending multiple prospects in the process.

There have been some really strange, unexplainable deals made this off-season.

You know, this is an excellent point / question.

How much value is there in a great defensive catcher?  We have all sorts of metrics to capture offense (wRC+, BB%, K%, etc etc), pitching, and defense, but it is really difficult to capture how much value a catcher adds to the game in terms of their defense.  How much do they impact pitch calling / sequencing?  Does a really "great" pitch caller impact the game to a huge extent?

This move suggests to me that the Braves place a tremendous emphasis on this, more than metrics (that are public) appear to capture.   They traded a good offensive, but questionable defensive catcher, and various other pieces, to acquire a strong defensive catcher.

The Braves have drafted and signed a number of catchers.  Anthopolous served one year under Friedman.  Friedman is well known to highly priority catching.  It seems that "tree" of PBOs/GMs put more emphasis than others.  It would be very interesting to learn what their proprietary information indicates, and how much value they assign a great defensive catcher.

[Dtwncbad]

1 hour ago, CanadianHalo said:

3/63 is a fantastic deal for the Jays

Bassitt and Contreras are huge misses by Perry. Same old song and dance again this offseason 

None of us know what the real budget is for 2023.

But if the Angels are close to their max (I hope they are not), then that’s not how I want the team to spend their last chunk of change.

They need a SS that can hit their weight.

[jsnpritchett]

10 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

You know, this is an excellent point / question.

How much value is there in a great defensive catcher?  We have all sorts of metrics to capture offense (wRC+, BB%, K%, etc etc), pitching, and defense, but it is really difficult to capture how much value a catcher adds to the game in terms of their defense.  How much do they impact pitch calling / sequencing?  Does a really "great" pitch caller impact the game to a huge extent?

This move suggests to me that the Braves place a tremendous emphasis on this, more than metrics (that are public) appear to capture.   They traded a good offensive, but questionable defensive catcher, and various other pieces, to acquire a strong defensive catcher.

The Braves have drafted and signed a number of catchers.  Anthopolous served one year under Friedman.  Friedman is well known to highly priority catching.  It seems that "tree" of PBOs/GMs put more emphasis than others.  It would be very interesting to learn what their proprietary information indicates, and how much value they assign a great defensive catcher.

You've said this a couple times now, but I'd also just like to point out that earlier this year, the Braves traded Shea Langeliers (a top 75 prospect, who's a C who's solid on both defense and offense) and multiple prospects for Matt Olson.  Langeliers will likely replace Murphy as the A's starting C in '23.

So just this calendar year, the Braves have traded two very good young catchers, 7 prospects (two of whom were at one point top 75 prospects and another who was the 24th overall pick in the '21 draft), and Manny Pina for Murphy and Olson.  They have tremendous depth in their system (majors and minors), so that allowed them to make these deals--but that's a LOT to give up for three seasons of Murphy and two seasons of Olson. 

[mmc]

 

[Warfarin]

2 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

You've said this a couple times now, but I'd also just like to point out that earlier this year, the Braves traded Shea Langeliers (a top 75 prospect, who's a C who's solid on both defense and offense) and multiple prospects for Matt Olson.  Langeliers will likely replace Murphy as the A's starting C in '23.

So just this calendar year, the Braves have traded two very good young catchers, 7 prospects (two of whom were at one point top 75 prospects and another who was the 24th overall pick in the '21 draft), and Manny Pina for Murphy and Olson.  They have tremendous depth in their system (majors and minors), so that allowed them to make these deals--but that's a LOT to give up for three seasons of Murphy and two seasons of Olson. 

Given you can only play so many catchers, I am sure part of the thought process behind that is that there are only so many good catchers, so perhaps it makes sense to accumulate a number of them, so that you can either retain/play them, or use them as a valuable trade asset.

Prospects are a currency.  They can certainly be used to add and improve your team, but if you have a good one at a difficult-to-fill spot, you can trade them and acquire a very useful piece for your team.

[Warfarin]

7 minutes ago, mmc said:

 

Oh boy?  More reliever depth I guess.  

[mmc]

 

[Angels 1961]

Lot of moves today. Something big brewing for Angels?

[beatlesrule]

3 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Lot of moves today. Something big brewing for Angels?

[mmc]

 

[Warfarin]

 

[Angels 1961]

28 minutes ago, beatlesrule said:

We are signing Joe DiMaggio?

[beatlesrule]

3 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

We are signing Joe DiMaggio?

I saw him at Dinky Donuts.

[Erstad Grit]

26 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

 

He was in the rotation with Lorenzen at Fullerton. The team with Chapman.  At that time most thought he was better than Lorenzen

[jsnpritchett]

6 minutes ago, Erstad Grit said:

He was in the rotation with Lorenzen at Fullerton. The team with Chapman.  At that time most thought he was better than Lorenzen

His freshman year was fantastic.  Been a bit downhill since then.

[Angelsfan1984]

1 hour ago, Dtwncbad said:

None of us know what the real budget is for 2023.

But if the Angels are close to their max (I hope they are not), then that’s not how I want the team to spend their last chunk of change.

They need a SS that can hit their weight.

The last 4 shortstops have been anorexic. 

[BTH]

1 hour ago, Warfarin said:

This move suggests to me that the Braves place a tremendous emphasis on this, more than metrics (that are public) appear to capture.   They traded a good offensive, but questionable defensive catcher, and various other pieces, to acquire a strong defensive catcher.

I think the Braves don't like William Contreras' defense, know d'Arnaud is getting older, and saw an opportunity to get one of the best catchers in the game in order to fill the catching position long-term.

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, Warfarin said:

This time of year is fun, but it is also a reminder that anyone can make up anything and pose it as a rumor.  The Padres trading Tatis, with his value at the lowest it can possibly be due to his suspension, would just make absolutely no sense at all.

Getting clear of that contract would make sense. 

[Blarg]

2 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

Gio and Renfroe combined will make roughly what Bassitt will this season

There’s no way a new owner is going to make a gripe over the remaining 2 years 42 mill for a starter like Bassitt

This is the issue with having a revolving door at Gm and pressure to win every year. They miss out on good deals because they’re busy trying to fill all of their holes from the previous year. It’s not realistic to bring this team from zero to hero in an offseason and yet they try to every single offseason. Hopefully with new ownership comes some stability throughout the organization 

Maybe they don't need Bassit since they picked up Anderson for half the cost. The open rotation spot has been filled with the guy Minasian wanted. It just not the guy you think the Angels need. 

[Warfarin]

2 hours ago, CanadianHalo said:

Gio and Renfroe combined will make roughly what Bassitt will this season

There’s no way a new owner is going to make a gripe over the remaining 2 years 42 mill for a starter like Bassitt

This is the issue with having a revolving door at Gm and pressure to win every year. They miss out on good deals because they’re busy trying to fill all of their holes from the previous year. It’s not realistic to bring this team from zero to hero in an offseason and yet they try to every single offseason. Hopefully with new ownership comes some stability throughout the organization 

?

Urshela and Renfroe addressed very significant needs.  We also signed a SP in Anderson.  We have 5 guaranteed starters in our rotation, and various decent options for the 6th spot.  It is possible we can sign a 6th starter too, as the offseason is not over.

I probably would rather have Urshela + Renfroe than Bassitt.  A legit backup 3B/1B (who is likely to play the same as our starters) and starting OF were greater needs for us than a second FA SP.

[Stradling]

I’d much rather have Urshela and Renfroe than Bassitt. 

[AngelStew43]

I think that Bassitt was a huge overpay, especially since he's going to a launching pad of a park. 

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, beatlesrule said:

I saw him at Dinky Donuts.

Great episode

[beatlesrule]

8 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Great episode

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Stradling said:

I’d much rather have Urshela and Renfroe than Bassitt. 

I'd rather have Swanson and Lorenzen and Ortega than Bassitt