Gameday Thread (8/21/22): Angels @ Tigers - Ohtani pitching

[daygloman]

Awwwwwwww fuck!

It was inevitable!

Sigh............................

Go Halos!

[eligrba4ever]

4 h, 25 min. until Doctor Who tackles the dragon thing.

 

[eligrba4ever]

Oh well. Flat tires in Motor City. And Matty promises the return of O'Neal the rest of the road trip. Matty has a show to present in New York 2 pm weekdays on MLBN.

[Blarg]

4 minutes ago, BliaYang6 said:

Yes.  I'll take the criticism.  I just felt nervousness typing this because of what I had to say.  I'm on a crappy tablet as well.  Just consider what I have to say and please respond. Thanks in advanced.  It's been a long time coming.

No big deal, no need to be nervous or apologize. If you haven't noticed the regulars on this board all respect players of any ethnicities. Clowns like the troll that just got bounced will be removed once their intentions are known. Feel free to post your thoughts about the game, the players and the present and future of the team.

[eligrba]

17 minutes ago, BliaYang6 said:

Another start another screw job for Ohtani.  He's probably ranked #1 in non-called in-the-zone strikes especially during a high count/full count RISP high stakes situations.  It all adds up.  Ohtani has given up runs that way due to attrition via bad call after bad call and also rarely getting any dubious calls which is typically the complete opposite treatment for the opponent he faces on that day.  I'm done watching baseball until robo-umps are administered.  The hate Ohtani gets is either from the non-stop coverage - which I completely understand is grating to people.  The other is plain old bigotry and trust me, there are, i.e., (paraphrasing) "Asians aren't that athletic hence he's on steroids", "This Asian aint going to win over Judge this year", etc.,.  Whatever.  It is what it is.

 

What I don't stand for is unfair treatment towards an individual based on their ethnicity, race, group, background, or accomplishments, and that's exactly what Ohtani has been going through since last year after the AS break.  His numbers should be noticeably better than even now.  The attrition of getting dubious calls over and over again adds up and it shows on the stat sheets.  Poor Ohtani is too damn nice to do anything about it.  I might as well do something about it.  Hate all you want, it's your right, but if you support the unfair treatment of a single player the you are also part of the problem.  

 

I had to register here to speak my thoughts because I have start somewhere and this is the only blog I go for the game threads for the Angels incidentally.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree Ohtani has experienced bad calls. In all honesty, he is the only reason to continue watching the Angels.   He is amazing.

[Blarg]

He had a bad game today and obviously something wasn't right. Ohtani wouldn't have removed himself from DH if he was feeling like he could play. My guess is the next opponent will wish he had taken their series off the next time he pitches. 

[eligrba4ever]

12 minutes ago, BliaYang6 said:

Yes.  I'll take the criticism.  I just felt nervousness typing this because of what I had to say.  I'm on a crappy tablet as well.  Just consider what I have to say and please respond. Thanks in advanced.  It's been a long time coming.

My response to your initial post was rude and I am sorry for that. The reverse white on black type was difficult to read but I could have been less curt about it. 

[Blarg]

Just now, eligrba4ever said:

My response to your initial post was rude and I am sorry for that. The reverse white on black type was difficult to read but I could have been less curt about it. 

Drop and give him 20 push ups!

[Blarg]

Lost during the fools interruption was Adell's triple in the 8th. Nice swing and he was on it from batters box to the slide into third. His first triple of the season and I hope we start seeing more of them and a bunch of doubles. 

[WicketMaiden]

27 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

My response to your initial post was rude and I am sorry for that. The reverse white on black type was difficult to read but I could have been less curt about it. 

That's a classy response @eligrba4ever, fair play to you, sir.

[BliaYang6]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

No big deal, no need to be nervous or apologize. If you haven't noticed the regulars on this board all respect players of any ethnicities. Clowns like the troll that just got bounced will be removed once their intentions are known. Feel free to post your thoughts about the game, the players and the present and future of the team.

Thanks for your reply!  That poster just happens to be on this thread the moment I registered.  Nothing really to do with him.  It's an uncomfortable topic and it pains me to say that Ohtani is getting the unfavorable treatment start in and start out relative to his opponent that day whether it is never getting any dubious calls as oppose to his opponent getting those very same dubious calls all start long, etc.

Umpires are human so we would expect bad calls every game sprinkled throughout for and against both teams BUT the problem here is that Ohtani almost always gets the bulk of the bad calls and rarely any of the good calls which defies fair treatment down the middle.  It's not just Ohtani but Aaron Judge gets terrible calls all the time at the plate too.  Ohtani just happens to be screwed both on the mound and at the plate.  Robo-umps are needed more than ever.  A lot of these games should've been Angels wins too when sports in general all come down to a game of inches.  I really can't bear to watch anymore Ohtani starts for now.  It's just too painful.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Angel Oracle]

39 minutes ago, cysomeawfulpitcher said:

Why does this team insist on showing up?  The 2003 Tigers could beat their bum asses.  We're that bad.

28-56 past 84 games

23 of next 26 games against over .500 teams

Yep, franchise records for worst winning% (65-95 in 1980 for .406) and most losses (95 in 1968 and 1980) are well within reach.

Need to go 14-27 to avoid worst winning%, and 15-26 to avoid surpassing the most losses. 

[AngelsFaninGA]

To add some positivity to this thread, I for one am glad to see the offense rolling at full steam with Trout back and averaging 1.3 runs per game as opposed to their usual 0.8 runs per game. 

[BliaYang6]

20 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

My response to your initial post was rude and I am sorry for that. The reverse white on black type was difficult to read but I could have been less curt about it. 

No worries.  From being a reader of the game threads for a good year or so, you guys are mostly class as apparent here as well. 

My beef is strictly UMP bias and no one else.  I should've stated that from the start.  'We need Robo-Umps' should really be my rally point.

[tdawg87]

6 minutes ago, BliaYang6 said:

No worries.  From being a reader of the game threads for a good year or so, you guys are mostly class as apparent here as well. 

My beef is strictly UMP bias and no one else.  I should've stated that from the start.  'We need Robo-Umps' should really be my rally point.

Oh you're preaching to the choir. The umpires seem to be getting worse every year. I don't care about tRaDiTiOn, bring on the robots.

[WicketMaiden]

29 minutes ago, BliaYang6 said:

No worries.  From being a reader of the game threads for a good year or so, you guys are mostly class as apparent here as well. 

My beef is strictly UMP bias and no one else.  I should've stated that from the start.  'We need Robo-Umps' should really be my rally point.

Welcome to the board, @BliaYang6.

Can you pull any stats that support your position? Just wondering whether it's real or maybe just confirmation bias when you see Ohtani get a bad call. Thanks. 

[eligrba]

5 minutes ago, WicketMaiden said:

Welcome to the board, @BliaYang6.

Can you pull any stats that support your position? Just wondering whether it's real or maybe just confirmation bias when you see Ohtani get a bad call. Thanks. 

Here is one possible source..

[eligrba]

34 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

My response to your initial post was rude and I am sorry for that. The reverse white on black type was difficult to read but I could have been less curt about it. 

[Blarg]

13 minutes ago, BliaYang6 said:

It's an uncomfortable topic and it pains me to say that Ohtani is getting the unfavorable treatment start in and start out relative to his opponent that day whether it is never getting any dubious calls as oppose to his opponent getting those very same dubious calls all start long, etc.

Bad umpiring is a league wide problem. Do the research on just the main Angels pitching staff on blown calls by umpires and you will see that Ohtani is not alone in having to make additional pitches because a strike was called a ball. We saw Herget cheated out of a strike in relief, the umpire just blew the call. 

I'm not saying it all evens out.  Some umpires can see pitches off of a group of pitchers better than others. If you are seeing players whiffing at Ohtani's best slider image how the umpire has to interpret that wicked of a pitch when it catches a corner or bottom of the zone when the batter doesn't swing. It ain't that easy.  

Today Ohtani didn't have his game.  His misses were often wide, he nearly hit 3 batters on both sides of the plate. Being that off his game you know the umpire is under more pressure to find a strike to call between pitches that were not borderline. 

Ohtani couldn't get out of the 5th inning.  He had walked 4 batters, gave up 5 hits and only struck out two.  The Tigers, the leagues worst hitting team, was making his day miserable. That's not the umpires fault because he missed a couple calls. 

Circle back to this discussion after Ohtani's next start.  I think you'll find the better he pitches the better the umpires calls will look.  

[BliaYang6]

1 hour ago, WicketMaiden said:

Welcome to the board, @BliaYang6.

Can you pull any stats that support your position? Just wondering whether it's real or maybe just confirmation bias when you see Ohtani get a bad call. Thanks. 

Thank you!  This is my internal monologue I go through every start "Be as fair with your judgement down the middle as you can for both starting pitchers when observing the game."  Here's what I posted on an MLB.com upload:

Until we get robo-umps Ohtani will continue to get screwed over via umpire bias. Every time a high stakes situation takes place he'll get a timely dubious ball called on a strike throw. He rarely ever gets an out-of-the-strike-zone strike call either. On the flip side the opponent rarely ever gets a dubious ball called on a strike throw. On top of that they'll get a few dubious out-of-the-strike-zone strike calls in their favor. This is when the stakes are high with runners in scoring position and/or a full count for both pitchers. This allows the opponent to strand the runners on base and also screw Ohtani with runners on base costing him runs.

Only when the stakes are low with 0-0 count and/or no runners in scoring position then the ump will subtly give Ohtani some "make-up" calls to appease the fans, Ohtani, etc., whilst taking away some of those favorable calls to the opposing pitcher prior when the stakes were high and also giving him some dubious calls to "even" things out. That's how Ohtani loses out on those close games when it's a game of inches.  /End

 

If I can gather footage from every Ohtani start games.  I'm confident enough to say the umpire bias is there against him.

 

 

 

 

[cysomeawfulpitcher]

Another team that in previous losing seasons that we could beat takes a 3 game series from us.  We're that bad.  We might as go 0-whatever for the rest of the season.

 

[BliaYang6]

18 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Bad umpiring is a league wide problem. Do the research on just the main Angels pitching staff on blown calls by umpires and you will see that Ohtani is not alone in having to make additional pitches because a strike was called a ball. We saw Herget cheated out of a strike in relief, the umpire just blew the call. 

I'm not saying it all evens out.  Some umpires can see pitches off of a group of pitchers better than others. If you are seeing players whiffing at Ohtani's best slider image how the umpire has to interpret that wicked of a pitch when it catches a corner or bottom of the zone when the batter doesn't swing. It ain't that easy.  

Today Ohtani didn't have his game.  His misses were often wide, he nearly hit 3 batters on both sides of the plate. Being that off his game you know the umpire is under more pressure to find a strike to call between pitches that were not borderline. 

Ohtani couldn't get out of the 5th inning.  He had walked 4 batters, gave up 5 hits and only struck out two.  The Tigers, the leagues worst hitting team, was making his day miserable. That's not the umpires fault because he missed a couple calls. 

Circle back to this discussion after Ohtani's next start.  I think you'll find the better he pitches the better the umpires calls will look.  

Thanks for your response.  That's the thing.  He got three non-called strikes (mostly fastballs) in the zone which also played into his psyche + his physical attrition which lead to giving up some of those very runs DUE to the egregious non-calls putting runners in scoring position.  It all adds up towards his ER per game and non-called strikes outs which affects the whole team.

I also remember Gubie saying it's a good thing his sliders are so darn good getting whiffs and swinging strikes because he's apparently not getting these calls in the zone.  The problem is that Gubie says something along those lines like every game or every other game!

 

 

 

[WicketMaiden]

41 minutes ago, BliaYang6 said:

Thanks for your reply!  This is my internal monologue I go through every start "Be as fair with your judgement down the middle as you can for both starting pitchers when observing the game."  Here's what I posted on an MLB.com upload:

Until we get robo-umps Ohtani will continue to get screwed over via umpire bias. Every time a high stakes situation takes place he'll get a timely dubious ball called on a strike throw. He rarely ever gets an out-of-the-strike-zone strike call either. On the flip side the opponent rarely ever gets a dubious ball called on a strike throw. On top of that they'll get a few dubious out-of-the-strike-zone strike calls in their favor. This is when the stakes are high with runners in scoring position and/or a full count for both pitchers. This allows the opponent to strand the runners on base and also screw Ohtani with runners on base costing him runs.

Only when the stakes are low with 0-0 count and no runners in scoring position then the ump will subtly give Ohtani some "make-up" calls to appease the fans, Ohtani, etc., whilst taking away some of those favorable calls to the opposing pitcher prior when the stakes were high and also giving him some dubious calls to "even" things out. That's how Ohtani loses out on those close games when it's a game of inches.  /End

 

If I can gather footage from every Ohtani start games.  I'm confident enough to say the umpire bias is there against him.

 

 

 

 

I see what you're saying, but again I ask, is Ohtani unduly affected by this compared to other pitchers? A review of several million umpire calls was made a few years ago and this was one of the findings:

When batters had two strikes, the error rate for all umpires increased – incorrect calls happen 29 percent of the time, almost double the error rate when the batter had one or no strikes.

So it could be that when Ohtani gets these bad calls you are having a more emotional response because of how it impacts the game, but according to the research it happens to most, if not all pitchers in pressure situations.

Not trying to be difficult here, chap, I just like to fact check everything. Here's a link to a summary of the 2018 analysis: https://theconversation.com/an-analysis-of-nearly-4-million-pitches-shows-just-how-many-mistakes-umpires-make-114874

[AngelsLakersFan]

30 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Here is one possible source..

I’ve been saying all year, it’s all the extra movement Ohtani has been doing in the box this year that is influencing this.

[Inside Pitch]

2 hours ago, NotOhtaniFanBoy said:

Where are the Ohtani fanboys!?  It's raining, so Ohtani shouldn't pitch?!?  Angels lose, it's everybody else's fault.  Angels win, it's Ohtani's credit.  Ohtani just got knocked out of the game!!!  LOL!  Embarrassing Ohtani fanboys, where are you all?

Angels will always be losers.  Who wants to win on a team when other overhyped players always get the credit?  Fact is, Trout and neither Ohtani has elevated the Angels.  Baseball is not just stats - it's about your karma and whether you have that winning spirit to elevate others.  Clearly Trout and Ohtani are losers, not winners.

 

......AaronJudgeFanBoy has entered the chat.