Apparently the Angels are sellers (according to Fangraphs)

[Stradling]

2 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Minasian may be in tough spot if halos get to 500 and only 4 to 5 games back.  Heaney, Cobb and even Bundy pitch well what do you do. Offers will come in do you trade them or try with a slim chance of making playoffs. Could end up losing all of them with nothing in return. Trout coming back and Rendon starts to hit. Angels 8 and 4 when Stassi starts. Could halos move out of sellers list and jump over the bubble and become BUYERS?

Both. Trade the guys you are going to extend for whatever prospect capital you can. And if a TOR with 2-4 years of control becomes available move prospects to get that arm. 

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, nate said:

So our pitchers are mental midgets that can't pitch well cause they are worried about the defense duffing a ball in play?

Since these pitchers all historically have had poor control and overall have been bad, why is it different this time?

Oh??  I see we opted to double down on the cherry picked stat..  LOL

Career BB/9 rates for our historically poor control pitchers.

Heaney 2.5 BB/9, this year 3.0
Cobb  2.6 BB/9 ,this year 3.2
Quintana 2.6 BB/9, this year 7.0
Canning 3.4 BB/9, this year 4.0
Bundy 2.9 BB/9, this year 2.5
Ohtani 3.8 BB/9 (18), this year 6.4

The MLB average BB/9 this year is 3.4   The lowest it's been ACROSS MLB in the last 5 years is 3.2

Not only do the facts not support your position, it's painting you out to be a "mental midget."

 

[Inside Pitch]

11 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Minasian may be in tough spot if halos get to 500 and only 4 to 5 games back.  Heaney, Cobb and even Bundy pitch well what do you do. Offers will come in do you trade them or try with a slim chance of making playoffs. Could end up losing all of them with nothing in return. Trout coming back and Rendon starts to hit. Angels 8 and 4 when Stassi starts. Could halos move out of sellers list and jump over the bubble and become BUYERS?

What would you want him to do?   If they don't go sell mode, I'd like to see a pitcher extended.  I think not moving them or going into the offseason with 4 pending FA pitchers would be a huge mistake.

[Blarg]

Last night Walsh ranged far to his right to field a ball right in front of Wong who was in position to make the play. Had Walsh "stayed at home" (fielded his position at 1st) instead of a heroic job of taking away the second baseman's ball, the out would have been recorded.

Instead there was no one at 1st to receive a throw since this was a play the pitcher never should have to cover. That set off a series of events that ended up ending Heaney's night and the runner scored. It was not recorded as a fielding error even though it obviously was. 

But let's talk FIP.  

[Angel Oracle]

23 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

What would you want him to do?   If they don't go sell mode, I'd like to see a pitcher extended.  I think not moving them or going into the offseason with 4 pending FA pitchers would be a huge mistake.

Right now, Cobb and Heaney are the ones to focus on re-signing.

Cobb has pitched solidly, and with better defense would be even better.  Main issue is the blisters.

Heaney when on is solid.  The main issue though is once he loses the feel for his second best pitch, the heat is much more vulnerable to being hit hard.

Tentatively for 2022, there are Ohtani, CRod, Canning, and maybe Detmers.

[Angel Oracle]

6 minutes ago, Blarg said:

Last night Walsh ranged far to his right to field a ball right in front of Wong who was in position to make the play. Had Walsh "stayed at home" (fielded his position at 1st) instead of a heroic job of taking away the second baseman's ball, the out would have been recorded.

Instead there was no one at 1st to receive a throw since this was a play the pitcher never should have to cover. That set off a series of events that ended up ending Heaney's night and the runner scored. It was not recorded as a fielding error even though it obviously was. 

But let's talk FIP.  

This is one of the downfalls of not having continuity in the field.

That play plus Upton and Wong colliding

Once they finally get a set lineup, maybe that could help the defense a little.

[Angels 1961]

27 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

What would you want him to do?   If they don't go sell mode, I'd like to see a pitcher extended.  I think not moving them or going into the offseason with 4 pending FA pitchers would be a huge mistake.

I think Heaney will test FA. He has had problems with being pulled early in games. Trade him and maybe a prospect for a young pitcher under team control for 3 years.

[Blarg]

I didn't see Stassi let a strike go through his glove to the backstop last night. 

But let's talk FIP with Kurt Suzuki as catcher. 

[Inside Pitch]

10 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Right now, Cobb and Heaney are the ones to focus on re-signing.

Cobb has pitched solidly, and with better defense would be even better.  Main issue is the blisters.

Heaney when on is solid.  The main issue though is once he loses the feel for his second best pitch, the heat is much more vulnerable to being hit hard.

Tentatively for 2022, there are Ohtani, CRod, Canning, and maybe Detmers.

While I want to see the team compete, a part of me is quietly hoping for a sell off.  Sandoval, Suarez, Barria..  I'd love to see all three get extended looks this year.  Suarez is looking as comfortable as he ever did in the minors, he was thrown to the wolves as a 21 year old when he wasn't remotely ready.   We know what Barria can be, and what his limitations are but the other two both have upsides and are still developing.

I genuinely would like to see them sign a guy, maybe two of them, then trade off everyone else who is a FA and insert Rengifo at 2B etc etc...   The big trade chip is Rasiel Iglesias..  If the closer market is it's usual crazy self -- they really need to try to move him..  

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I didn't see Stassi let a strike go through his glove to the backstop last night. 

But let's talk FIP with Kurt Suzuki as catcher. 

To say nothing of his amazing framing.  I particularly love when Suzuki catches a ball in the strike zone then jerks his mitt around resulting in a called ball.  But I'm sure that's had no impact AT ALL on the walk totals.  

[Taylor]

7 hours ago, cals said:

Next tell us how peeing sitting down really is the manly thing to do because it’s more polite for the women in the house.

It's better for your bladder health too.

[Angelsjunky]

The tricky part is that we always seem to be in the same place, or at least usually over the last decade: Not good enough to be buyers, not bad enough t be sellers - at least not until it is too late.

But there's still time to figure this out. June is the month in which a team finalizes whether they are sellers or buyers, and July is the month to sell and buy. So while I think Fangraphs is probably right, there's still time (a month or so) to make it official. 

Or let's put a date to it: the All-Star Break, or July 12-15. That gives the Angels 35 games, or a total of 90 by then. Right now the Athletics are 32-25 (.561) and the Astros are 30-24 (.556). To be on the safe side, let's assume that one of them plays well running up to the ASB and is about 52-38, but we'll consider a +/- of 2 games. Right now the Angels are 25-30, so consider two hypothetical scenarios:

Record over next 35 games (Overall ASB record) GB 1st

They play well: 20-15 (45-45) 5-9 GB

The continue as is: 16-19 (41-49) 9-13 GB

So while there's no exact number, and it also depends upon how division rivals play, if I'm Minasian I'm thinking about .500 and the ASB. Have the talks now, but see where the team is at by the ASB. If they're at .500 or over, and with Trout coming back, I don't see them selling. But if they're still 5 or more games below .500, then they should (and probably will) sell. The tricky part is between the two, or within 5 games of .500 but not quite there. Knowing the Angels, that's probably where we'll be.

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

While I want to see the team compete, a part of me is quietly hoping for a sell off.  Sandoval, Suarez, Barria..  I'd love to see all three get extended looks this year.  Suarez is looking as comfortable as he ever did in the minors, he was thrown to the wolves as a 21 year old when he wasn't remotely ready.   We know what Barria can be, and what his limitations are but the other two both have upsides and are still developing.

I genuinely would like to see them sign a guy, maybe two of them trade off everyone else who is a FA and then insert Rengifo at 2B etc etc...   The big trade chip is Rasiel Iglesias..  If the closer market is it's usual crazy self -- they really need to try to move him..  

Can't agree with this enough. Never know, Sandoval, Suarez, Barria, Rengifo, even guys like Higgins, Wantz in the bullpen and the Angels could be just as competitive as they are now and still wind up in WC contention. Would rather lose with the kids than lose with the current pending FAs at this point and get a sense of who might stick for 2022, as we'll need some cheap internal players to help afford whatever help is needed on the pitching staff.

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

The tricky part is that we always seem to be in the same place, or at least usually over the last decade: Not good enough to be buyers, not bad enough t be sellers - at least not until it is too late.

But there's still time to figure this out. June is the month in which a team finalizes whether they are sellers or buyers, and July is the month to sell and buy. So while I think Fangraphs is probably right, there's still time (a month or so) to make it official. 

Or let's put a date to it: the All-Star Break, or July 12-15. That gives the Angels 35 games, or a total of 90 by then. Right now the Athletics are 32-25 (.561) and the Astros are 30-24 (.556). To be on the safe side, let's assume that one of them plays well running up to the ASB and is about 52-38, but we'll consider a +/- of 2 games. Right now the Angels are 25-30, so consider two hypothetical scenarios:

Record over next 35 games (Overall ASB record) GB 1st

They play well: 20-15 (45-45) 5-9 GB

The continue as is: 16-19 (41-49) 9-13 GB

So while there's no exact number, and it also depends upon how division rivals play, if I'm Minasian I'm thinking about .500 and the ASB. Have the talks now, but see where the team is at by the ASB. If they're at .500 or over, and with Trout coming back, I don't see them selling. But if they're still 5 or more games below .500, then they should (and probably will) sell. The tricky part is between the two, or within 5 games of .500 but not quite there. Knowing the Angels, that's probably where we'll be.

They're 7-6 since the Twins doubleheader, the day I made the post about five reasons why the Angels could still win without Trout...so they're at least *sort of* doing what they need to against the "weaker" schedule.

[Chuck]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

To say nothing of his amazing framing.  I particularly love when Suzuki catches a ball in the strike zone then jerks his mitt around resulting in a called ball.  But I'm sure that's had no impact AT ALL on the walk totals.  

And here we have Suzuki designated as Ohtani's catcher. 

[Angelsjunky]

5 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

While I want to see the team compete, a part of me is quietly hoping for a sell off. 

That's pretty much how I feel every year. The problem, though, is the "Angelic Mediocrity" - they're rarely really bad, but usually not good. So we're left in this perpetual state of "a few tweaks and we'll be pretty good."

In the past, though, they've had very few sell-able parts. This year they have a few (especially Cobb, Heaney, and Raisel, maybe Bundy if he improves and one or two other relievers). 

So in my previous post, the best-case scenario for the Angels in the long-term, or even next year and beyond, is that potentially tradable assets play well over the next month or so, but the team overall doesn't play well enough to get to .500. 

Of course I'd rather see them play well and then, when Trout comes back, get super hot and ride into the playoffs. But the chances of that happening are slim, indeed.

[Angelsjunky]

4 minutes ago, totdprods said:

They're 7-6 since the Twins doubleheader, the day I made the post about five reasons why the Angels could still win without Trout...so they're at least *sort of* doing what they need to against the "weaker" schedule.

And 6-3 over the last 9 games. Maybe you have some mojo, too? 

[Angel Oracle]

Personal preference for 2nd catcher behind Stassi?

Just as long as it’s either Benboom or Butera for now, and not “turn strikes into balls and mishandle pitches over the plate” Suzuki

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

And 6-3 over the last 9 games. Maybe you have some mojo, too? 

They need to curb-stomp the Mariners this next series. We need a 4-game sweep. A good 5-2 or 6-1 homestand would feel really nice.

[Angels 1961]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

The tricky part is that we always seem to be in the same place, or at least usually over the last decade: Not good enough to be buyers, not bad enough t be sellers - at least not until it is too late.

But there's still time to figure this out. June is the month in which a team finalizes whether they are sellers or buyers, and July is the month to sell and buy. So while I think Fangraphs is probably right, there's still time (a month or so) to make it official. 

Or let's put a date to it: the All-Star Break, or July 12-15. That gives the Angels 35 games, or a total of 90 by then. Right now the Athletics are 32-25 (.561) and the Astros are 30-24 (.556). To be on the safe side, let's assume that one of them plays well running up to the ASB and is about 52-38, but we'll consider a +/- of 2 games. Right now the Angels are 25-30, so consider two hypothetical scenarios:

Record over next 35 games (Overall ASB record) GB 1st

They play well: 20-15 (45-45) 5-9 GB

The continue as is: 16-19 (41-49) 9-13 GB

So while there's no exact number, and it also depends upon how division rivals play, if I'm Minasian I'm thinking about .500 and the ASB. Have the talks now, but see where the team is at by the ASB. If they're at .500 or over, and with Trout coming back, I don't see them selling. But if they're still 5 or more games below .500, then they should (and probably will) sell. The tricky part is between the two, or within 5 games of .500 but not quite there. Knowing the Angels, that's probably where we'll be.

Chances of them winning division are slim. In wildcard if you have 6 to 8 teams in front of you that would also be a long shot. Right now you have to be thinking sell.

[Chuck]

1 hour ago, totdprods said:

They need to curb-stomp the Mariners this next series. We need a 4-game sweep. A good 5-2 or 6-1 homestand would feel really nice.

You ain't kidding. 

[notherhalo]

Could Walsh and Ohtani do for us what Sale and Eaton did for the Chisox?  

 

In theory would you trade those 2 for Kopech, Eloy, Giolito and Dunning? (what the Sox got)

[Angelsjunky]

37 minutes ago, Angels 1961 said:

Chances of them winning division are slim. In wildcard if you have 6 to 8 teams in front of you that would also be a long shot. Right now you have to be thinking sell.

Agreed, but you don't close the door...yet. Thus my contention that we'll know more clearly a month from now.

[IEAngelsfan]

4 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

Oh??  I see we opted to double down on the cherry picked stat..  LOL

Career BB/9 rates for our historically poor control pitchers.

Heaney 2.5 BB/9, this year 3.0
Cobb  2.6 BB/9 ,this year 3.2
Quintana 2.6 BB/9, this year 7.0
Canning 3.4 BB/9, this year 4.0
Bundy 2.9 BB/9, this year 2.5
Ohtani 3.8 BB/9 (18), this year 6.4

The MLB average BB/9 this year is 3.4   The lowest it's been ACROSS MLB in the last 5 years is 3.2

Not only do the facts not support your position, it's painting you out to be a "mental midget."

 

[WicketMaiden]

That was fun to catch up on.

@Inside Pitch in this thread: