Was Chauvin truly guilty of the most serious charge?

[Angel Oracle]

Have at it.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Angel Oracle

[St1ck]

Can you add a I don't care option? 

[Jason]

Ultimately I don't really care as it doesn't have an impact on me. Also my opinion doesn't matter at all 

[Lhalo]

All I know is that peace will reign throughout the country as a result of this verdict. The National Guard can go home and the public can rest at ease.

[fan_since79]

Count 1 was the most serious charge, 2nd degree unintentional murder while committing a felony.

I know, it's confusing.

He didn't intend to kill him but caused Floyd's death by assaulting him (knee to the neck for 9.5 minutes, even after Floyd had stopped breathing and had no pulse)

[Lhalo]

 

[St1ck]

5 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

 

Don't ever change Larry. 

[Dtwncbad]

10 minutes ago, Lhalo said:

 

Wonder if the jury got to see this video. . . Or if they were told (like everyone else) that a knee on a neck is clearly/certainly/surely/obviously just evidence of racism and intent to physically harm people of color.

[Dtwncbad]

16 minutes ago, fan_since79 said:

Count 1 was the most serious charge, 2nd degree unintentional murder while committing a felony.

I know, it's confusing.

He didn't intend to kill him but caused Floyd's death by assaulting him (knee to the neck for 9.5 minutes, even after Floyd had stopped breathing and had no pulse)

Sorry but the use of a known, proven restraint technique (designed to avoid physical escalation) is a tough one for me to categorize as “assault” simply because someone died.

People dying is bad.  But even the safest EFFECTIVE technique will likely result in some people dying just like in rare cases where seatbelts actually cause a death.

I am not for one second arguing for Chauvin’s innocence.  I don’t know his intentions.  I am just noting that a knee on the neck normally doesn’t kill people even for very long periods of time.

I am just saying it probably isn’t solid logic to automatically call the knee on the neck a felonious assault simply because the person died.

[Kotchman]

I have seen Ric Flair use that hold hundreds of times and nobody died. 

[Dtwncbad]

17 minutes ago, Kotchman said:

I have seen Ric Flair use that hold hundreds of times and nobody died. 

Riley Reid also used it throughout the movie “Golden Rain”

[tdawg87]

This forum is pathetic.

[RallyMo]

3 hours ago, Lhalo said:

 

That's weird, he didn't say "I can't breathe" in that video.

The guy that Chauvin murdered did say that he couldn't breathe. This was because he couldn't breathe.

In the hospital, if we have somebody say that they can't breathe, we tend to not keep them in the same position until they stop breathing.

[Jason]

18 minutes ago, fishbulb said:

That's weird, he didn't say "I can't breathe" in that video.

The guy that Chauvin murdered did say that he couldn't breathe. This was because he couldn't breathe.

In the hospital, if we have somebody say that they can't breathe, we tend to not keep them in the same position until they stop breathing.

Yep. Positional asphyxia is a real thing and you don’t have to compress the neck to cause it. Throw in drug use and then it becomes a bigger concern.  Yes, his health issues contributed to his demise but they weren’t the cause of his death. Chauvin’s actions and the charges came down to whether what he did was objectionably reasonable. It was obvious that it wasn’t, especially when the police chief said they do not train that way. Now every arrestee is going to yell that they can’t breath so officers are going to have to assume they are telling the truth. All they have to do is lay them on their side or sit them up and the asphyxia won’t be a major issue. If the person stops actively resisting then the cops have to stop using force. If the arrestee continues to aggressively resist then that’s on them.  If an officer can’t handle these type of procedures then they should find a new line of work. Hell, MMA fighters beat the shit out other people for a living and know when to stop the ass kicking. 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Jason

[RallyMo]

Like I said in another thread:

Let's suppose that we had a patient in the hospital and he was receiving fentanyl (and maybe other meds) for pain management, as some patients do. This patient then starts to become confused, belligerent and unruly, but not violently combative. He's a big dude but for some reason his arms are immobilized and of no use to him (let's say he has bilateral shoulder injuries). He starts to wander a bit in the hallway, but not too far. He is CLEARLY not a true danger to others (can't use arms, has no weapon), but rather a time and resource wasting nuisance at this point. Let's say that security comes and tells him that he absolutely must return to his room, but he states that he finds it to be too small and states that he's claustrophobic. They get him on the ground and hold him down with a knee to his neck for 10 or so minutes, all while he's complaining that he can't breathe. He then dies.

Did we not murder the patient in that scenario? It's roughly the same as that in which Floyd was murdered.

The quality of the individual being murdered matters not. They're still usually somebody to someone, and also... they've been murdered.

[Jason]

11 minutes ago, fishbulb said:

Like I said in another thread:

Let's suppose that we had a patient in the hospital and he was receiving fentanyl (and maybe other meds) for pain management, as some patients do. This patient then starts to become confused, belligerent and unruly, but not violently combative. He's a big dude but for some reason his arms are immobilized and of no use to him (let's say he has bilateral shoulder injuries). He starts to wander a bit in the hallway, but not too far. He is CLEARLY not a true danger to others (can't use arms, has no weapon), but rather a time and resource wasting nuisance at this point. Let's say that security comes and tells him that he absolutely must return to his room, but he states that he finds it to be too small and states that he's claustrophobic. They get him on the ground and hold him down with a knee to his neck for 10 or so minutes, all while he's complaining that he can't breathe. He then dies.

Did we not murder the patient in that scenario? It's roughly the same as that in which Floyd was murdered.

The quality of the individual being murdered matters not. They're still usually somebody to someone, and also... they've been murdered.

This is true and the issue with police misconduct and brutality has two parts and is pretty simple. First, the police need to ALWAYS be professional, respect others as fellow Americans and use only the least amount and reasonable force when it is required. Second, all citizens need to follow enacted laws and not engage in criminal activities that will cause police to interact with them. In the event a police officer gives a person a directive then they should comply as opposed to arguing and running from them. If these two things happen then most of this stuff disappears. Imagine how much the us and states will save on the correctional budgets. 

[Lhalo]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

This forum is pathetic.

Then why the fuck are you here?

[Kotchman]

I guy resisting arrest for using counterfeit would never lie about his ability to breathe.  He told a few lies during the arrest as well. I can see how the cop thought he was lying about his ability  to breathe

[Blarg]

Yeah but I guess his credibility was restored when he died and the idiot still knee'd his neck for the next 8 minutes. 

[RallyMo]

1 hour ago, Kotchman said:

I guy resisting arrest for using counterfeit would never lie about his ability to breathe.  He told a few lies during the arrest as well. I can see how the cop thought he was lying about his ability  to breathe

Yeah, I feel like laboring to breathe and then laying there dead would kinda overcome any suspicion he was lying. If you're going to make the decision to not believe a guy who wasn't a threat at all when he says he can't breathe and he subsequently dies, I guess you'd best be prepared to get convicted of murder.

[UndertheHalo]

It’s difficult for me to understand why this is so confusing for some people.  The cop acted with gross disregard for the guys life and he died.  AO.  You know what that is.  It’s on tape, everyone can see it.  It’s a pretty open and closed case.  All the other shit about who George Floyd was doesn’t matter.  The question isn’t whether he was a good guy or not.  

Edited April 21, 2021 by UndertheHalo

[failos]

As a Trump supporter and someone with cop friends, I say he's guilty.

[Blarg]

I'm hoping the intelligence on this board is greater than the combined IQ of the Missouri and Kansas State residents. 

[failos]

1 hour ago, cals said:

Hey look, Blarg’s hoping for woke points!

MeToo

[Don]

1 hour ago, Blarg said:

I'm hoping the intelligence on this board is greater than the combined IQ of the Missouri and Kansas State residents. 

This feels like a direct attack.