Gameday Thread: Angels @ A's 3/5/21: Ohtani on the mound!

[jsnpritchett]

[Justin]

I love that 1-2 punch.

(I also love that 3-4-5... in 2009.) 

Let's go Shohei. 

[jsnpritchett]

This one is only going to be 7 innings, at the Angels request. 

Also, no Rendon.  Hope he gets back in there soon. 

[jsnpritchett]

 

[Erstad Grit]

Def catching inning 1 on the radio today

[eligrba]

Rooting for Upton to continue where he left of last September.  That would have a huge impact on the lineup. 

Still rooting for Adell but he is making it more and more difficult. 

[Justin]

2 minutes ago, eligrba said:

Still rooting for Adell but he is making it more and more difficult. 

I'll root for him as long as he is in the organization. But my hope that he would contribute to the big club this season is gone. He needs a lot of time in AAA. I hope he gets it this season. 

[eligrba]

1 minute ago, Justin said:

I'll root for him as long as he is in the organization. But my hope that he would contribute to the big club this season is gone. He needs a lot of time in AAA. I hope he gets it this season. 

I agree. He makes it hard for me to root for him because he shows no evidence of learning.  He looks the same as he did last season.

[Justin]

1 minute ago, eligrba said:

I agree. He makes it hard for me to root for him because he shows no evidence of learning.  He looks the same as he did last season.

It sure is frustrating. I just keep reminding myself that he has played a grand total of 27 games in AAA. Do I think he will be worthy of that #2 prospect rating? It seems unlikely. But I do believe the finished product will be much better than what we've seen so far. 

[Angelsjunky]

We're just a few games into spring training, but there is a sense of creeping doom about Adell. It isn't unheard of for a top prospect to experience some variation of the yips and never acclimate to major league baseball. See, "Wood, Brandon." Or any of the high profile pitching busts - guys that were called up too early and never recovered, e.g. David Clyde.

I think the Angels just need to put him in AAA and let him play. Take the pressure off of being called up - Marsh is the next guy to get a chance.

That said, given Adell's talent and mentality, I think at some point it will just click. It might not be this year, or it could be in June.

[Second Base]

One of the things that Perry Minasian did this winter that I really liked was that he created the perfect avenue of present and future plans for the Angels outfield. 

Everyone seems to ignore Dexter Fowler, but the guy gets on base at a great clip, and it isn't a fluke, he's done it his whole career. And if Dexter isn't hitting lefties, Taylor Ward has given us every reason to believe he could ask for should be a platoon option. The power and athleticism are real, and he gives us depth behind Upton in LF, as well as 1B, 3B and catcher. He also has one option remaining, so they can stash him in AAA if needs be. That's a useful tool to have at your disposal. 

And as for Adell and Marsh, there's no reason to promote them unless the team is positive they're ready. They can spend the entire year in AAA and it wouldn't be a big deal. In fact it would probably be been been been been beneficial for their development. Adell and Marsh will be our starting corner outfielders in 2022 and beyond. 

There's no need to force anything. Let it play out.

 

 

[Chuck]

Roster - March 5 @ OAK.PDF Spring Training Roster (02-26-21) (1).pdf

[Erstad Grit]

1 hour ago, Justin said:

It sure is frustrating. I just keep reminding myself that he has played a grand total of 27 games in AAA. Do I think he will be worthy of that #2 prospect rating? It seems unlikely. But I do believe the finished product will be much better than what we've seen so far. 

I'd understand the lack of experience impacting his hitting. However his AWFUL defense is far more worrisome. He looks like he has no clue what he is doing in the outfield. 

[rafibomb]

 

 

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, jsnpritchett said:

 

"Rendon is OK" in Angels injury speak can be translated to, "Surgery is imminent."

[yk9001]

"Dehydrated"

[ThisismineScios]

As I've been super annoyed at his little league fielding mishaps, I'm trying to keep it in perspective. He's not played a lot of RF, which is different than CF. In 2018, he played 69/88 games in CF. In 2019, he played about half in RF. He didn't really start playing in RF until he got to Salt Lake that year. In 2019 he played 291 innings in RF. He had 2 errors and 3 assists. If we assume that's about a quarter of a season, conservatively, that's 8 errors and 12 assists. Small sample size, but it is not like this dude can't field. Between 2018 and 2019 he made an error about every 113 innings. Not gold glove quality, but definitely at least average with a plus arm (the assists). 

When you watch the gaffes, it's the routine plays that are getting him. Somebody mentioned he's trying to look the part--that's what I felt a few days ago on the roller in the outfield. Instead of charging or approaching it, he sat and waited on it. It rolled under his glove. The 4-run error last year. The falling down. The bad angles. I don't believe this is a result of better MLB hitting. These are bad plays he would make if Joe Blanton was hitting flyballs to him. It seems to me he has not focused at all on his fielding, assuming he doesn't need to. He's focused on working out, making videos, and his swing. And it shows big time. But his minor league numbers and the film show a quality fielder with a great arm. Remember the Futures game? 

He just needs reps. I truly hope he spends the entire season in AAA. It would be good for his humility and provide needed reps. But recency bias is kicking in big time. This guy has shown himself at every level to be able to perform offensively and defensively. Why the heck people are ready to give up on him is mind boggling. He's freaking 21 years old. You know who is older than him? Almost everyone.  And he has thrived at every level before flopping in the big show, because he wasn't ready. He will be fine. 

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, Second Base said:

One of the things that Perry Minasian did this winter that I really liked was that he created the perfect avenue of present and future plans for the Angels outfield. 

Everyone seems to ignore Dexter Fowler, but the guy gets on base at a great clip, and it isn't a fluke, he's done it his whole career. And if Dexter isn't hitting lefties, Taylor Ward has given us every reason to believe he could ask for should be a platoon option. The power and athleticism are real, and he gives us depth behind Upton in LF, as well as 1B, 3B and catcher. He also has one option remaining, so they can stash him in AAA if needs be. That's a useful tool to have at your disposal. 

And as for Adell and Marsh, there's no reason to promote them unless the team is positive they're ready. They can spend the entire year in AAA and it wouldn't be a big deal. In fact it would probably be been been been been beneficial for their development. Adell and Marsh will be our starting corner outfielders in 2022 and beyond. 

There's no need to force anything. Let it play out.

 

 

Oh, I agree. But whether due to injury or aging, Upton and Fowler will provide opportunities for Marsh (or Adell) to get playing time. Meaning, it isn't a matter of rushing them - it is whether they will show mastery of AAA at the same time that Upton and/or Fowler struggle or get hurt. And I think the key point with the Fowler acquisition is that because he's so cheap and no longer the player he was, he won't block one of the young guys if they're ready. He was a 1.5 WAR player in 2019, which makes him a fringe regular. Unless he bounces back to 2017 form (2.6, 122 wRC+), he won't be a huge obstacle. He gives them a solid threshold to surpass (~2 WAR), but is unlikely to perform to such a level that Adell or Marsh will be rotting on the vine in AAA.

Upton will be given plenty of time, but not all the time in the world. If by late May it is clear that he's done, I think a prospect gets the call - probably Marsh. And even if he bounces back, there's a good chance he'll miss time due to injury.

So the OF depth chart is something like this:

Trout: will play as long as he's healthy.

Upton/Fowler: Will play as long as they perform and are healthy.

Adell/Marsh: Will play if they're doing well in AAA and one or both of the above aren't performing or get hurt. Most likely, Marsh gets a shot first.

Lagares/Ward: Back-up - will start to provide rest days and if Upton/Fowler get hurt or suck and neither Adell or Marsh look ready.

 

 

 

[BTH]

@Chuckster70 thanks for posting the game notes!

[Second Base]

44 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Oh, I agree. But whether due to injury or aging, Upton and Fowler will provide opportunities for Marsh (or Adell) to get playing time. Meaning, it isn't a matter of rushing them - it is whether they will show mastery of AAA at the same time that Upton and/or Fowler struggle or get hurt. And I think the key point with the Fowler acquisition is that because he's so cheap and no longer the player he was, he won't block one of the young guys if they're ready. He was a 1.5 WAR player in 2019, which makes him a fringe regular. Unless he bounces back to 2017 form (2.6, 122 wRC+), he won't be a huge obstacle. He gives them a solid threshold to surpass (~2 WAR), but is unlikely to perform to such a level that Adell or Marsh will be rotting on the vine in AAA.

Upton will be given plenty of time, but not all the time in the world. If by late May it is clear that he's done, I think a prospect gets the call - probably Marsh. And even if he bounces back, there's a good chance he'll miss time due to injury.

So the OF depth chart is something like this:

Trout: will play as long as he's healthy.

Upton/Fowler: Will play as long as they perform and are healthy.

Adell/Marsh: Will play if they're doing well in AAA and one or both of the above aren't performing or get hurt. Most likely, Marsh gets a shot first.

Lagares/Ward: Back-up - will start to provide rest days and if Upton/Fowler get hurt or suck and neither Adell or Marsh look ready.

 

 

 

Yup, we have a similar view. I wonder if your timeline matches mine. I'm thinking...

April-May: LF Upton CF Trout RF Fowler 4th OF: Lagares

June: Taylor Ward is promoted, Lagares is kept on hand, they just shorten bullpen by one pitcher. Ward and Upton split time in LF, Trout is in CF and Ward and Fowler platoon RF. Lagares is 4th OF.

July: Everything changes. Ward is traded in a deadline deal for relief pitching, Upton goes on phantom DL to fix his swing. Lagares goes on waivers. Adell and Marsh are promoted, Adell in LF, Marsh in RF. Trout still in CF. Fowler is the 4th outfielder but doesn't need to backup CF with both Adell and Marsh on the roster. He also still gets plenty of AB's, spelling Adell against tougher RHP. 

August: The Adell-Trout-Marsh-Fowler rotation is working beautifully, Upton goes on rehab in Salt Lake. 

September: Upton is cut loose, he sits out the rest of the season before signing on with another team next winter. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by Second Base

[Chuck]

25 minutes ago, Trendon said:

@Chuckster70 thanks for posting the game notes!

You're welcome! 

[T.G.]

21 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Yup, we have a similar view. I wonder if your timeline matches mine. I'm thinking...

April-May: LF Upton CF Trout RF Fowler 4th OF: Lagares

June: Taylor Ward is promoted, Lagares is kept on hand, they just shorten bullpen by one pitcher. Ward and Upton split time in LF, Trout is in CF and Ward and Fowler platoon RF. Lagares is 4th OF.

July: Everything changes. Ward is traded in a deadline deal for relief pitching, Upton goes on phantom DL to fix his swing. Lagares goes on waivers. Adell and Marsh are promoted, Adell in LF, Marsh in RF. Trout still in CF. Fowler is the 4th outfielder but doesn't need to backup CF with both Adell and Marsh on the roster. He also still gets plenty of AB's, spelling Adell against tougher RHP. 

August: The Adell-Trout-Marsh-Fowler rotation is working beautifully, Upton goes on rehab in Salt Lake. 

September: Upton is cut loose, he sits out the rest of the season before signing on with another team next winter. 

@Second Base you sure like to throw a lot of shit against the wall!  Not that it's a bad thing... just an observation.

[eligrba4ever]

GO ANGELS!!!

Go Ohtani Shohei!

[Second Base]

Why is it that everytime Ohtani is on the mound, he's facing the A's?

[Bronson]

Rare Fletcher caught looking strikeout.