Is prime Trout a better regular season performer at his sport (MLB) than prime Kobe was at his (NBA)?

[JustATroutFan]

Both guys are legends at their sport. Obviously, Kobe had a better career at his sport than Trout due to his great playoff resume but if we're just talking about both players' in the regular season, is Trout (prime) better than Kobe (prime)? Trout does have more MVP's in the regular season than Kobe. It's astonishing that Kobe only won one NBA MVP in the regular season being as great as he was. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, JustATroutFan said:

Both guys are legends at their sport. Obviously, Kobe had a better career at his sport than Trout due to his great playoff resume but if we're just talking about both players' in the regular season, is Trout (prime) better than Kobe (prime)? Trout does have more MVP's in the regular season than Kobe. It's astonishing that Kobe only won one NBA MVP in the regular season being as great as he was. 

I think trout has had very few peers who have ever been an actual threat to being better than him. Kobe not so much.

[Second Base]

If you had to choose between corn or flour tortillas, would you put pineapple on your pizza in Florida? 

[Taylor]

56 minutes ago, Second Base said:

If you had to choose between corn or flour tortillas, would you put pineapple on your pizza in Florida? 

Only if the crow farts west on Thursday.

[Second Base]

43 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Only if the crow farts west on Thursday.

[angelsnationtalk]

Two completely different sports. Both set records, both Hall of Fame bound, both legends. 

[stormngt]

Looking at the comparison of numbers that was posted on Twitter it appears Trout wasn't as good as Pujols in their primes.  

At least not in the hitting department. 

[ScottT]

27 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Looking at the comparison of numbers that was posted on Twitter it appears Trout wasn't as good as Pujols in their primes.  

At least not in the hitting department. 

Where are those?  I suspect they are counting stat dominant and gloss over context.  Hitting is pretty close.  When Albert was in St Louis, it was a better run scoring environment.   

This is Trout's career and Pujols in STL. Chose these numbers because they were easy to grab from Baseball Reference.

Trout 176 OPS+, 74.2 oWAR (5514 PA)

Pujols 170 OPS+, 74.5 oWAR (7433 PA)

 

[Angelsjunky]

Basketball Reference uses a Win Share stat which is somewhat similar to WAR. With the caveat that individual stats mean less in basketball, it does give us something.

Kobe ranked in the top 10 in WS seven times, in 2001 (8th), 2002 (6th), 2005-07 (4th all three years), 2008 (8th), and 2012 (9th). From 1999 to 2012 he was a consistent 10-15 WS performer, with three seasons below due to injuries. His best year, according to WS, was 2005 with 15.3, which would have led the league in most years, but he was behind Nowitzki (17.7), James (16.3), and Billups (15.5) that year.

In other words, from the perspective of WS at least, Kobe was one of the ten best players in the NBA for a decade and a half, but never the most dominant player. As someone who only follows basketball sporadically, my memory supports that finding: there were always guys better than him: Shaq early on, then Nowitzki, Duncan and Garnett, then, of course, LeBron, as well as Chris Paul and Kevin Durant.

Now again, basketball players are harder to judge by any statistical measurement. Kobe was also a team leader for a franchise that won the championship five times during his tenure. 

On the other hand, Trout has been a top 2 WAR performer in all but two of his nine seasons: his injury-shortened 2017 season in which he played only 114 games, and the covid-shortened 2020 season. To find a recent equivalent in the NBA you have to look at none other than LeBron James, who led the NBA in WS five years in a row (2008-12), was second four times (2005-07 and 2013) and top 10 in five other seasons. Or even Michael Jordan, who led the league nine times including seven years in a row (1986-1992) and then two years after he came back (1995-96), as well as two #2 rankings.

To find a comparable MLB player to Kobe, you'd need to find a guy who was consistently really good for a long time, but never really the best. As well as someone who was on really good teams. Someone like Derek Jeter, but a bit better.

But again, basketball and baseball are very different sports, especially when it comes to statistical analysis. I find people frequently make the mistake of mis-judging baseball players based upon how many WS they've won, when the performance of individual players has a far smaller share in baseball than it does in basketball or (for quarterbacks, at least) football.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Angelsjunky

[ScottT]

Comparing players that played 50 years apart is  kinda silly.  Comparing  players in different sports?   I'm out. 

 

[Angels 1961]

Kobe was such a great clutch player. Kobe also holds record in NBA that will never be broken, most missed shots.

[T.G.]

@Angelsjunky be like...

Whenever you need an answer to anything...

 

[Dtwncbad]

Is Trout better in the regular season than Ron Jeremy was at foreplay?

[stormngt]

5 hours ago, ScottT said:

Where are those?  I suspect they are counting stat dominant and gloss over context.  Hitting is pretty close.  When Albert was in St Louis, it was a better run scoring environment.   

This is Trout's career and Pujols in STL. Chose these numbers because they were easy to grab from Baseball Reference.

Trout 176 OPS+, 74.2 oWAR (5514 PA)

Pujols 170 OPS+, 74.5 oWAR (7433 PA)

 

I just saw it on Twitter so I do not know where the stats came from.  They used their numbers with the same amount of at bats.  Pujols had a better OPS+.   It made me appreciate how good Albert was when he was younger.

As for WAR:  as I have seen it used more often the more I believe it's a crappy stat.

[Angelsjunky]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

I just saw it on Twitter so I do not know where the stats came from.  They used their numbers with the same amount of at bats.  Pujols had a better OPS+.   It made me appreciate how good Albert was when he was younger.

As for WAR:  as I have seen it used more often the more I believe it's a crappy stat.

[tdawg87]

1 hour ago, stormngt said:

Pujols had a better OPS+.

No he didn't.

[ten ocho recon scout]

6 hours ago, ScottT said:

Comparing players that played 50 years apart is  kinda silly.  Comparing  players in different sports?   I'm out. 

 

So i take it you didnt dvr that michael phelps vs the great white shark race?

 

And also not a fan of the mtv rock and jock softball games?

[ten ocho recon scout]

Someone sent me the same trout vs pujols thing. Surprisingly i believe pujols had a higher WAR, but id have to go back and check

[Angelsjunky]

Fine, I'll check.

Trout: 1252 games, 75.7 WAR, .304/.418/.582, 172 wRC+

Pujols (Cardinals): 1705 games, 81.3 WAR, .328/.420/.617, 167 wRC+

Very similar, but Trout has been slightly better than Pujols. The main difference is position and base-running, and also era adjustment.

But another way to look at it is that Trout is basically the same hitter Pujols was with the Cardinals, but with better baserunning and playing a premier defensive position. Peak Trout > Peak Pujols. Not by a huge amount, but solidly so.

Or to put it one more way, WAR per 162 games played:

Trout 9.8 (2nd highest in MLB history after Ruth)

Pujols 7.7

Peak Pujols was basically an 8 WAR player. Peak Trout is a 10 WAR player.

 

[yk9001]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

So i take it you didnt dvr that michael phelps vs the great white shark race?

 

And also not a fan of the mtv rock and jock softball games?

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 minutes ago, yk9001 said:

...... that actually would be a pretty good fight.

[ten ocho recon scout]

Peak trout is the better all around player. I think peak pujols may have been a scarier hitter though.

Tough to say with park factors and other things. But even though it was a million years ago, peak pujols was a monster.

The irony is you can argue "yeah, but pujols had so and so in his lineup for protection!"

And then you add "and trouts been stuck with pujols for protection"

[Jay]

9 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

In other words, from the perspective of WS at least, Kobe was one of the ten best players in the NBA for a decade and a half, but never the most dominant player.

For me it's hard to use the word "dominant" to describe a baseball player, unless maybe if the player is a pitcher.

A guy that comes up to bat 4 times a game, reaches base 2 times, and scores maybe once, isn't dominant, but can still be the best player in the game.

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

Fine, I'll check.

Frickin' junky

[T.G.]

54 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

...... that actually would be a pretty good fight.

C'mon. Ali would have kicked his ass and danced all over his cape.