Who do you got? Darin Erstad or Garret Anderson

[AngelsLakersFan]

46 minutes ago, Torridd said:

I also disagree with this. I mean, I love Erstad, who doesn't, but I think Salmon and Anderson are very close stats-wise.

The entire discussion re: Salmon vs Anderson comes down to the 5936 outs Anderson made with the Angels in 8480 PAs vs the 4468 outs Salmon made 7039 PAs. Thats 1468 more outs in 1441 more plate appearances... In other words, Anderson's entire Angel career beyond Salmon's was all outs.... other than that they are, as you said, 'very close stats-wise.'

[Angel Oracle]

8 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

If the list is for homegrown players and how good their careers were period..

Trout
Edmonds
Finley
Salmon
Glaus
 

Trout

Edmonds

Tanana

Salmon

Anderson

Weaver

K-Rod

Finley

Percival

Glaus

 

 

[Angel Oracle]

6 hours ago, greginpsca said:

Tanana was the best pitcher drafted by the Angels up until his arm injury.

Dominant from 1975-1977 on bad teams 

[ten ocho recon scout]

6 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

You're massively under rating Devo.  Its just unfortunate for us that his best play came after they traded him.  Big knock on him from me is that he was primarily a leadoff guy who wasn't that good at getting on base.  But good lord could he defend and run the bases.

Im just glad to read you and @Angelsjunky mentioning Devo. Aside from @Chuckster70 he doesnt get mentioned a whole lot on here.

Was my fave as a kid. Met him at a signing once and was a really cool guy. Hated that he was let go so early on, then seeing him bounce around the league.

He never turned into what we imagined (like joyner after his huge debut), but like you said, his glove and baserunning were so, so cool.

Weve had some absolute beast CFs in my time. Devo, erstad, pettis, trout, edmonds, etc etc.... one thing weve always seemed to be good at.

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, Stradling said:

He had the ability to go get the ball with those long strides.  We have had some GREAT defensive centerfielders.  Hell Trout is barely top 5 defensively for CFers.  I would go Erstad, Edmonds, Pettis, Devo and Bourjos are all better defensively than Trout.  

To piggyback my last post, shit, forgot about bourjos. Couldnt hit, but was amazing in the field.

[ten ocho recon scout]

45 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

The entire discussion re: Salmon vs Anderson comes down to the 5936 outs Anderson made with the Angels in 8480 PAs vs the 4468 outs Salmon made 7039 PAs. Thats 1468 more outs in 1441 more plate appearances... In other words, Anderson's entire Angel career beyond Salmon's was all outs.... other than that they are, as you said, 'very close stats-wise.'

This is, of course, true. And it cant be ignored.

But I think theres something there about guys like anderson. Advanced stats dont like them but old school does.

Salmon was obviously the better hitter. Guys like him always will be. But I still think the GA types had their own value. SABR has taught us to look past it, and I mostly agree. But i think in the scheme of things, the gap isnt as wide as a simple number.

Better case for me is glaus vs anderson. Glaus got on base at roughly 20 percent higher clip in any given year. But anderson had the higher BA by a larger margin.

Getting on base, less outs, is more valuable. Buuuut, I still think id like the guy who got more hits than walks. Thats just me.

Weve been trained to say rbis are a bad stat, and I disagree. I think theyre bad if you sign a guy because of his rbi totals, or not sign one for low rbi totals, if you dont consider the lineup he played in. But driving in a run still has value. 

But maybe im just old. I do get upset when people dont take care of their yards these days.

[Stradling]

17 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

To piggyback my last post, shit, forgot about bourjos. Couldnt hit, but was amazing in the field.

Some kind of friend you are

[tdawg87]

@Stradling stop arguing with the idiots on facebook. 

[T.G.]

38 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Weve had some absolute beast CFs in my time. Devo, erstad, pettis, trout, edmonds, etc etc.... one thing weve always seemed to be good at.

You forgot the scumbag Chad Curtis.

[tdawg87]

1 minute ago, T.G. said:

You forgot the scumbag Chad Curtis.

He was really disappointing. But he was great in the minors.

[stormngt]

4 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

That's good, because Anderson is ranked higher than them.

You might be surprised to hear that Kendrick had a higher career OPS+ than GA.

I think people remember GA so fondly because of his health and longevity (which is very important, don't get me wrong). But other than that? He played average defense at best in left field, and had a career .327 OBP with the Angels. 

He was a very good pure hit guy, but that's it. He didn't steal bases, didn't have great power, and didn't get on base.

I love Garret, he's one of my all time favorite Angels, but when you take feelings out of the matter, you realize he really wasn't that great.

I remember Anderson multiple All Star appearances (didnt he win an AS MVP?) middle if lineup bat an among most successful teams in history, runner up to Rookie of the year, and he even got MVP votes.  I dont think Kendrick accomplished any of those did he?

[Docwaukee]

3 minutes ago, stormngt said:

I remember Anderson multiple All Star appearances (didnt he win an AS MVP?) middle if lineup bat an among most successful teams in history, runner up to Rookie of the year, and he even got MVP votes.  I dont think Kendrick accomplished any of those did he?

he won the HR derby and was never the same.  

[AngelsLakersFan]

54 minutes ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

This is, of course, true. And it cant be ignored.

But I think theres something there about guys like anderson. Advanced stats dont like them but old school does.

Salmon was obviously the better hitter. Guys like him always will be. But I still think the GA types had their own value. SABR has taught us to look past it, and I mostly agree. But i think in the scheme of things, the gap isnt as wide as a simple number.

Better case for me is glaus vs anderson. Glaus got on base at roughly 20 percent higher clip in any given year. But anderson had the higher BA by a larger margin.

Getting on base, less outs, is more valuable. Buuuut, I still think id like the guy who got more hits than walks. Thats just me.

Weve been trained to say rbis are a bad stat, and I disagree. I think theyre bad if you sign a guy because of his rbi totals, or not sign one for low rbi totals, if you dont consider the lineup he played in. But driving in a run still has value. 

But maybe im just old. I do get upset when people dont take care of their yards these days.

Yeah, you're just old. lol

There are benefits to Anderson's style... which is essentially putting the ball in play. It'd be interesting to see a comparison between Salmon and Anderson in terms of baserunners bases taken. Contact promotes advancement on the bases, which is something that I think it generally ignored in sabrmetrics. Also, this is anecdotal, but I think a contact oriented hitter is more likely to take advantage of a higher quality pitcher. Walks and extra base hits are generally dependent on pitcher mistakes, where as contact tends to take the pitcher out of the equation and the results are more dependent on defense and luck. I think it's good team construction to have both types of hitters as they tend to compliment each other.

[Mark Lemper]

Garrett Anderson because of that sweet left handed swing. Confident, calm, consistent and Mr Clutch. His hit that cleared the bases in game 7 gave them a commanding 4-1 lead and was the decisive factor in winning the World Series. 

[Tank]

5 hours ago, T.G. said:

How quickly you all forget...

 

Ralston Schmidt.

And his signature was clean and beautiful.

[ScottT]

Oh, my

[tdawg87]

20 minutes ago, stormngt said:

I remember Anderson multiple All Star appearances (didnt he win an AS MVP?) middle if lineup bat an among most successful teams in history, runner up to Rookie of the year, and he even got MVP votes.  I dont think Kendrick accomplished any of those did he?

I don't think using AS appearances is a fair way to judge a player.

Tim Salmon had 0 AS games.

[T.G.]

1 hour ago, ten ocho recon scout said:

Weve had some absolute beast CFs in my time. Devo, erstad, pettis, trout, edmonds, etc etc.... one thing weve always seemed to be good at.

Fred Lynn is another.

[Tank]

Four pages in and not a single one of you knuckleheads has mentioned grit.

Im going to have to wear a hat and sunglasses all day tomorrow so none of my friends will know I’ve been part of this discussion. 

[T.G.]

9 minutes ago, Tank said:

Four pages in and not a single one of you knuckleheads has mentioned grit.

[ten ocho recon scout]

42 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Yeah, you're just old. lol

There are benefits to Anderson's style... which is essentially putting the ball in play. It'd be interesting to see a comparison between Salmon and Anderson in terms of baserunners bases taken. Contact promotes advancement on the bases, which is something that I think it generally ignored in sabrmetrics. Also, this is anecdotal, but I think a contact oriented hitter is more likely to take advantage of a higher quality pitcher. Walks and extra base hits are generally dependent on pitcher mistakes, where as contact tends to take the pitcher out of the equation and the results are more dependent on defense and luck. I think it's good team construction to have both types of hitters as they tend to compliment each other.

So along those lines. One of the moments I always cringe when I remember. 

Glaus taking the called 3rd strike in the 04 playoffs against Boston to end the series. Kind of ties in to what youre talking about right there.

And Im not old. I just think theres too much swearing on television these days.

[ten ocho recon scout]

28 minutes ago, T.G. said:

Fred Lynn is another.

He was, but i didnt put him in there because it was so brief, and he didnt start here. Same for Torii.

And GMJ

 

(Just to piss everyone off)

 

Man. Remember how much we hated matthews? And how when compared to what came next... wells, albert, etc.... how that was like the no big deal shitty big contract?

[ten ocho recon scout]

17 minutes ago, Tank said:

Four pages in and not a single one of you knuckleheads has mentioned grit.

Im going to have to wear a hat and sunglasses all day tomorrow so none of my friends will know I’ve been part of this discussion. 

 

[T.G.]

22 minutes ago, Tank said:

Four pages in and not a single one of you knuckleheads has mentioned grit.

Im going to have to wear a hat and sunglasses all day tomorrow so none of my friends will know I’ve been part of this discussion. 

[Pancake Bear]

1 hour ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

Contact promotes advancement on the bases, which is something that I think it generally ignored in sabrmetrics.

Is it ignored, though? Or does the data show it leads to more outs and less runs?