OC Register: Angels manager Joe Maddon wants impending free agent Andrelton Simmons to stay

[AngelsWin.com]

ANAHEIM — If it were up to Joe Maddon, Andrelton Simmons would be back with the Angels next year.

“How could you not love Andrelton Simmons playing shortstop for you?” Maddon said before Saturday’s doubleheader. “I always want to wish whomever the best for them and their family. I’m not here to negotiate for Andrelton or against the Angels. He’s just a really good baseball player that I think any team would love to have.”

Simmons, who turned 31 on Friday, will be a free agent at the end of the season. The Angels seemingly have a replacement shortstop ready in David Fletcher, but if they can bring back Simmons, they could play Fletcher at second and have Luis Rengifo either as a utility player or an asset to be used in trade.

Simmons’ salary this season was a pro-rated $15 million. The qualifying offer figure is likely to be just under $18 million, so it remains to be seen whether the Angels would offer that to Simmons. If they do and Simmons rejects it, the Angels would get a draft pick when he signed elsewhere. If he accepts it, he’d be signed for one more year at that figure.

The most pressing question about Simmons’ future is how much longer he can be an elite shortstop.

Maddon, for one, believes he will age well.

“He’s got years left,” Maddon said. “The tank is far from empty, and especially the brain. The brain works really well on a baseball field. I’m a big fan.”

LATE START

Jared Walsh is finally back to where he wanted to be, past the two frustrating camps and a bout with the coronavirus in between.

Walsh, who homered in Friday’s game, said he’s been feeling better about his swing, finally, after going hitless in his first 13 at-bats. One of the issues is he always starts slowly because it takes him more than just spring training to get his swing down.

That also applies to summer camp, and this year he came into summer camp with an added issue.

Walsh, who spoke to the media for the first time since the season started, confirmed his late arrival to summer camp was because he contracted the coronavirus in June.

He said his symptoms were mild, but for about 25 days he didn’t do much but sit on the couch.

“I didn’t work out,” he said. “I didn’t get to hit. So when I showed up to camp, if we’re being totally honest, I hadn’t picked up a bat for probably about three weeks. So I felt a little bit rusty, but I also knew other people were in my position. So you don’t want to use that as a crutch.”

Teams don’t reveal which players are placed on the injured list because of COVID-19, so it’s up to the individual players to disclose it if they choose. Julio Teheran, Patrick Sandoval, Jose Suarez and Matt Thaiss also confirmed they had the coronavirus in June, before the start of camp.

For Walsh, his baseball season also began with an arm issue during spring training, which is why he is not a two-way player any more this season. Walsh said he plans to work out this winter with the idea of resuming his role as a pitcher and hitter next season.

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ALSO

One of the big moments somewhat lost among so many others in Friday night’s 11-inning victory was Luke Bard escaping a bases-loaded jam in the eighth inning. Bard had not been used in many high leverage spots throughout his young career, but Maddon said he’s been encouraged by what he’s heard about Bard and seen from him, so he may get more opportunities in big spots, even over more established pitchers. “We’re at the point now where I can’t worry about hurting anyone’s feelings,” Maddon said. “Everybody has an opportunity. I’m just looking for guys to get people out.” …

Franklin Barreto also got a positive review from Maddon after his first big-league game in the outfield. “I think it was really something to grow off,” Maddon said.

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[Pancake Bear]

I’d love to see Simmons finish his career with the Angels. I love watching him play. Biggest concerns are contract - even at a 10-12m per that’s money that could be saved for pitching with Fletcher/Rengifo/Barrett, etc. if they’re able to put up comparable overall production - and durability. If Simmons wasn’t having recurring injuries every season, I’d be more willing to say screw it and let’s keep him. Problem is if he’s going to annually miss a month or more, that really cuts into his value. A lot. 

[failos]

I’d like him to stay too. Rengifo is not the future

[stormngt]

13 hours ago, failos said:

I’d like him to stay too. Rengifo is not the future

I would like him to stay.  I am not convinced either Regifro or Berretto are full time players.

Edited September 6, 2020 by stormngt

[Tyler]

I just don't see a team willing to throw out what he currently makes out to him in FA. I feel like you offer him, have him reject it, sit in FA when nobody gives him 10+ a year then sign him back for 3 years 24 mill.

[axalar]

If he keeps up this approach at the plate vs his pull-happy, HR-hungry version last year, then definitely need to re-sign him as long as its not too hefty of a price or more than 4 years (at most)

[ScottT]

I'm down for a two year deal.  Plus an option?

It'll be an interesting free agent market.

[Angel Oracle]

No more slides into 1B

[Warfarin]

I like Simba, but the truth is we need to use that money for pitching.  While Fletcher is not Simba at SS, he's not bad.

If he ends up terrible, and we decide we really need a SS, there are FIVE star SS who are free agents in 2021-2022 (Lindor, Story, Correa, Seager, Baez), so there is always the chance to bring in one if we really feel we need it.

That said - spend it on pitching.  Sign Bauer (will likely cost 25mil AAV-ish, depending on length of deal).  Having Bauer with Bundy at the top of the rotation will help a lot, and just maybe, Ohtani can recover and pitch effectively at some point.

Lots of "IFs," but if by some stroke of good fortune Ohtani does recover to pitch like he did in his first year, we suddenly have a very nice rotation - Bauer, Bundy, Ohtani, and Heaney at the top, with Canning, Barria, Sandoval, Suarez, etc to round out the rotation as needed.

[Ariamus]

I would love to see him stay as well. Frankly I was surprised they didn't trade him last week and I'm hopeful that's a sign they intend to do what they can to keep him.

I also don't worry about the money. I really doubt there's a club out there that's willing to give a 30+ shortstop a big contract. I think he's bound for a "show-me" type contract like the one that Didi Gregorious got from the Phillies. So I think if the Angels offer him two years, $24-26 million with a third year incentives-laden option that wouldn't be too hard to attain, he probably would take it. I can live with that.

What I can't live with is if it's a matter of either Simba or more pitching. I think the Angels have the wherewithal to do both and more. What they lack, or specifically Arte lacks is the will.

I also can't live with Simba being the the fourth-best offensive player in the lineup.

I love Simmons and the trade to get him (Eppler's first move with the club) can not be categorized as anything but an epic win. He's a fantastic defender; arguably the best at his position since the Wizard himself. And he's become a better than average hitter, developing from the veritable black hole he was in Atlanta's lineup earlier in his career. But even with his improvements at the plate, he's still a bottom-half of the order hitter. Or at least he has to be if you're talking about a legitimate contender.

[Angelsjunky]

8 hours ago, stormngt said:

I would like him to stay.  I am not convinced either Reginfro or Berritto are full time playets.

Well said.

I'd love to see Barrett get a shot, too, in addition to Reginfro and Berritto. We need more playets.

[tdawg87]

I'm coming around to re-signing Simmons. Our defense has been atrocious this year, and Fletcher/Rengifo is so much worse than Simmons/Fletcher.

[Jay]

I would fully expect Maddon to say this, regardless of what he really thinks.

That said, I have no problem with the Angels extending a QO to Simmons.

 

[stormngt]

8 hours ago, Game 6 said:

Yeah, It would be great to have Simba back but I didn't think it a possibility because of his salary and our need for pitching. I still don't think he'll get an $18 M qualifying offer but I now think there is a way to re-sign him. With all the uncertainty going into to 2021 I think the FA market is going to be soft so maybe he stays with the Angels for a two year deal. The Angels would have Simba at SS, Fletcher at 2B and Rengifo as the utility infielder.

Are needs to go over the cap for one year.  If he wants to compete he needs to do it.

[eligrba]

I understand the idea of using Simmon's money for pitching and going with a different option at SS.  I would argue that this is the wrong way to look at Simmon's contract.  The money to use for pitching is currently playing first base......and not shortstop.  The reality is that the money needed for pitching is still unavailable until 2022 unless Arte wants to pay a luxury tax.  Not signing Simmons in order to use that money for pitching is precisely the thinking that got the Angels into mediocrity. 

For example, Eppler drafts Will Wilson as the Angels #1 pick and promptly trades him away to make up for an earlier fuck up.  This move hurt the Angels future in an attempt to improve the present by signing a pitcher like Julio Teheran.  I would rather have Wilson as a prospect than a one year contract with a marginal pitcher.

The past couple of years looks to me that Eppler is feeling the pressure of results and has started to abandon whatever plan he had previously.  I have no idea what GM could have done more than Eppler given the challenges because I don't follow other GM's.  All I know is the approach for the last two seasons have not worked and should be abandoned.

[totdprods]

FWIW, Rengifo has a walk rate around twice the MLB average.

I’m not giving up on him yet. 

[Angelsjunky]

The team is better with (a healthy) Simmons, Fletcher at 2B and Rengifo/Barreto as the UT. But is it $18M better? That depends upon which version of Simmons we get. 2017-18, definitely (5 WAR); other versions, it is more debatable (2-3 WAR). If we split the difference and project 3-4 WAR, that's probably better than Rengifo/Barreto, but how much better?

I'd be happy if they give him a QO, if it doesn't impede their ability to improve the pitching staff. But funds are limited. 

[Angel Oracle]

3 hours ago, Warfarin said:

I like Simba, but the truth is we need to use that money for pitching.  While Fletcher is not Simba at SS, he's not bad.

If he ends up terrible, and we decide we really need a SS, there are FIVE star SS who are free agents in 2021-2022 (Lindor, Story, Correa, Seager, Baez), so there is always the chance to bring in one if we really feel we need it.

That said - spend it on pitching.  Sign Bauer (will likely cost 25mil AAV-ish, depending on length of deal).  Having Bauer with Bundy at the top of the rotation will help a lot, and just maybe, Ohtani can recover and pitch effectively at some point.

Lots of "IFs," but if by some stroke of good fortune Ohtani does recover to pitch like he did in his first year, we suddenly have a very nice rotation - Bauer, Bundy, Ohtani, and Heaney at the top, with Canning, Barria, Sandoval, Suarez, etc to round out the rotation as needed.

Great defense helps to produce solid enough pitching.

Imagine by mid 2021, having solid defense everywhere except 1B.

Adell, Trout, Marsh OF

Rendon, Simba, Fletcher, ?  INF

Edited September 6, 2020 by Angel Oracle

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

The team is better with (a healthy) Simmons, Fletcher at 2B and Rengifo/Barreto as the UT. But is it $18M better? That depends upon which version of Simmons we get. 2017-18, definitely (5 WAR); other versions, it is more debatable (2-3 WAR). If we split the difference and project 3-4 WAR, that's probably better than Rengifo/Barreto, but how much better?

I'd be happy if they give him a QO, if it doesn't impede their ability to improve the pitching staff. But funds are limited. 

Good post! It really shows how key these next couple weeks are for Rengifo and Barreto. If Rengifo can start realizing some offensive potential or Barreto can prove he can handle defense all over, it makes things interesting.

While the QO is a reasonable thing to debate, I think if the Angels really would like to see him back, it’d simply be easier to sign a new contract before winter. Give him a 3/$39m like Cozart, or even as much as a 4/$48m to 5/$50m to get AAV down. His defense is probably worth close to $10m annually anyways, at least initially. He seems to like it here and made decent money already through his Braves deal so maybe he won’t cost an arm and a leg. Backload it by a couple mil if possible.

 

[Angel Oracle]

19 minutes ago, stormngt said:

Are needs to go over the cap for one year.  If he wants to compete he needs to do it.

Exactly, no lost draft pick (except FA signing) and no lost int’l slot money 

Just make sure any FA signing is vetted well enough.

No more Hackilton type contracts!

[totdprods]

I also wouldn’t be surprised if the Angels went cheap up the middle next year with Fletcher, Rengifo, and Barreto and Arte looked at the mega-FA SS class next offseason. Not suggesting it would be wise or ideal but with Pujols and Upton money coming off these next two offseasons, and no real big FA SP targets set to hit free agency, they could stick to smaller and short-term deals for other FA and go big there.

[Angelsjunky]

8 minutes ago, totdprods said:

I also wouldn’t be surprised if the Angels went cheap up the middle next year with Fletcher, Rengifo, and Barreto and Arte looked at the mega-FA SS class next offseason. Not suggesting it would be wise or ideal but with Pujols and Upton money coming off these next two offseasons, and no real big FA SP targets set to hit free agency, they could stick to smaller and short-term deals for other FA and go big there.

MI does seem like an area they can go budget next year, and see if one or both of Rengifo and Barreto develop, or Jahmai Jones for that matter. If just one of them does, they probably wouldn't go to free agency and stick with Fletcher and Rengifo/Barreto for years to come. And then they have Jackson, Vera, and Paris on the way up.

[totdprods]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

MI does seem like an area they can go budget next year, and see if one or both of Rengifo and Barreto develop, or Jahmai Jones for that matter. If just one of them does, they probably wouldn't go to free agency and stick with Fletcher and Rengifo/Barreto for years to come. And then they have Jackson, Vera, and Paris on the way up.

Flip-side, I can see the stocking of SS prospects to be another way to trade for an impact arm in a couple years, as trading for arms seems to be the most effective in terms of immediate impact and safe financials. We just haven’t had the prospect depth to do it without also hurting the MLB club.

[Angelsjunky]

Just now, totdprods said:

Flip-side, I can see the stocking of SS prospects to be another way to trade for an impact arm in a couple years, as trading for arms seems to be the most effective in terms of immediate impact and safe financials. We just haven’t had the prospect depth to do it without also hurting the MLB club.

As much as I'm in the School of Stoneman (hoarding prospects), at some point the Angels are going to trade from their areas of greatest depth: outfielders and, to a lesser extent, middle infield prospects. I think we'll see one of Marsh/Adams traded, one or more of Knowles/Deveaux/Ramirez, probably Jones, and maybe eventually one or two of Jackson/Vera/Paris - although those guys are too young to really know what they'll become.

[totdprods]

21 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

As much as I'm in the School of Stoneman (hoarding prospects), at some point the Angels are going to trade from their areas of greatest depth: outfielders and, to a lesser extent, middle infield prospects. I think we'll see one of Marsh/Adams traded, one or more of Knowles/Deveaux/Ramirez, probably Jones, and maybe eventually one or two of Jackson/Vera/Paris - although those guys are too young to really know what they'll become.

Totally agree. I think it’s been one of Eppler’s drafting strategies and is quite Yankee-esque.

Draft a bunch of very young, hyper-toolsy athletes at either prime positions (SS) or where you know you’ll have depth (OF, Trout), promote them aggressively, let them put up shiny numbers at levels advanced for their age (perhaps before being truly tested at AA/AAA) and then move them for big-league talent in trades. To a lesser extent, Eppler’s drafting of redundant pitching also demonstrated this. He essentially drafted the same three players - toolsy OF, toolsy MIF, safe, cheap, low ceiling college arms, over and over. 

While he has yet to do that, I think that’s been the plan. It just hadn’t worked out. This season could have proven that theory had it not been for the virus. 

The Yankees were so good at moving young, hyped prospects who were supposedly future superstars before they had been exposed at higher levels. Knowles or Jackson or Paris could have put up gaudy Cal League numbers this year and pulled in something.