Trumped

[red321]

4 hours ago, mtangelsfan said:

I remember when the Democrats colluded with Hillary Clinton to win the Primary election.

So, if I understand you correctly...the Democratic Party and DNC showing favoritism (or colluding if that is your preferred word) to one Democratic candidate over another to select their party's' nominee = secretly colluding with a foreign government to impact the results of the national election for President?

 

[Adam]

They both illustrate how silly our democratic elections are. 

[Thomas]

Just now, Adam said:

They both illustrate how silly our democratic elections are. 

or

They both illustrate how undemocratic our silly elections are.

[Adam]

indeed

[mtangelsfan]

1 hour ago, red321 said:

So, if I understand you correctly...the Democratic Party and DNC showing favoritism (or colluding if that is your preferred word) to one Democratic candidate over another to select their party's' nominee = secretly colluding with a foreign government to impact the results of the national election for President?

 

I would not use the word equate.  But you feel safe on your high horse.

[red321]

And yet that's exactly what you did

If being gobsmacked a number of people don't appear to give a shit about the current president having potentially colluded, and being beholden, to the Russian government is feeling safe on my high horse...okie dokie.

 

 

 

[Lou]

I don't stress over things that may have occurred 

[mtangelsfan]

13 minutes ago, red321 said:

And yet that's exactly what you did

If being gobsmacked a number of people don't appear to give a shit about the current president having potentially colluded, and being beholden, to the Russian government is feeling safe on my high horse...okie dokie.

 

 

 

You did the equating.  I made a point.  If you want to believe your hands are cleaner go ahead.  The view from up top is usually skewed.

Also, I am not going to get too excited about any corruption in politics.  If there is real proof then I pray they all go to jail.  Until then, I really couldn't care less about any of them.

[Thomas]

9 minutes ago, red321 said:

And yet that's exactly what you did

If being gobsmacked a number of people don't appear to give a shit about the current president having potentially colluded, and being beholden, to the Russian government is feeling safe on my high horse...okie dokie.

Outrage fatigue is a real thing. How much left outrage can there possibly be left in the average person?  The average person just assumes that whomever takes the office of the POTUS is going to be compromised and corrupted by various interests, both domestic and foreign. Neither major candidate in the last election did anything to change that perception to say the absolute least. Yes Trump is clearly worse but it's hard for most to quantify between bad and terrible. Those on the right feeling disenfranchised aren't going to change sides.  Not when the left have rolled up their welcome sign, triple-locked their door faster than a grand wizard left in charge of Trump's wall, and are enforcing their own ideological cleansing on the inside. Not when the corporate news media on the left and the corporate news media on the right, both blatantly and shamelessly pandering to an eager audience, have lost so much credibility. Should people be upset about possible colluding with Russia? Yeah. But it's hard to see many doing so with much enthusiasm when Putin is essentially just another multi-national corporation that has purchased the loyalty of the POTUS over the needs of the country.

[Adam]

9 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Outrage fatigue is a real thing. How much left outrage can there possibly be left in the average person?  

Do you ever go on twitter? 

[UndertheHalo]

The KGB comment section/social media trolls are tireless. 

[Thomas]

1 minute ago, Adam said:

Do you ever go on twitter? 

Twitter betrays the existence of the fatigue even when limited to 140 bytes. How much of the outrage is retweeting and spreading trending hashtags?

[Adam]

4 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Twitter betrays the existence of the fatigue even when limited to 140 bytes. How much of the outrage is retweeting and spreading trending hashtags?

I can't even muster the energy to run a decent troll account. The leftist blue check marks cannot possibly have blood pressure in the normal range. 

[UndertheHalo]

Haven't you guys noticed the millions of different screen names always parading the exact same messaging ?  It's sort of impressive almost.  I don't think it's that hard to be suspicious about it.  

Its a deliberate campaign to spread bullshit and confuse American citizens. 

I wish people would stop talking about hacking voting machines and stupid shit like that.  That's not what's going on.  It's a massive ongoing propaganda campaign and the Russians are 100 percent the ones behind it.  It would be nice if the executive saw fit to do his duty and protect the country by interdicting it. All he does is deny that it's going on.  Which lends lot of credence to the idea that he or his people are somehow involved.  We may never get to the bottom of it. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Thomas]

Wait NOW there is an information war going on? Just now? And only by the Russians? What do think the US has been doing for the past 15 years? China? The previously mentioned corporatization of the news media. Solicitation of celebrities to spread political messaging.  Misinformation being spread by operatives and by automated means on social media and other online platforms of political discourse. Seeing as every political side is backed by powerful forces pulling the string, if your side isn't participating in any aspect of the war it is only through sheer negligence or incompetence. See also: Scott Baio

[UndertheHalo]

18 minutes ago, Thomas said:

Wait NOW there is an information war going on? Just now? And only by the Russians? What do think the US has been doing for the past 15 years? China? The previously mentioned corporatization of the news media. Solicitation of celebrities to spread political messaging.  Misinformation being spread by operatives and by automated means on social media and other online platforms of political discourse. Seeing as every political side is backed by powerful forces pulling the string, if your side isn't participating in any aspect of the war it is only through sheer negligence or incompetence. See also: Scott Baio

You don't have to tell me man.  I've said many many times on this forum that US has been involved in very plain meddling in other countries for decades. 

The effectiveness of what's going now is fairly new for our country tho.  IMO. 

Edited July 10, 2017 by UndertheHalo

[Thomas]

Perhaps a bit. Online interactions removes barriers of entry for foreign entities. But how much more effective was the spread of "fake news" compared to the Fw:Fw:Fw:Fw emails of the late 90's/2000's, especially before Snopes? The attacks are only getting worse and the effect only increasing but it's more incremental than anything and hardly new. The main difference was being able to take advantage of HRC's boneheaded IT choices. But even that was only effective because she was such a terrible candidate otherwise leaving her vulnerable to well, pretty much anything and everything. Pres. Obama or any decent candidate wouldn't have been fazed by the attempts. The potential backlash may have actually helped him. You'd assume going forwards that campaigns will spend a wee bit more on IT security and training. Not nearly what I would recommend of course but they aren't going to be so naive about it.

[Rico]

Trump's tweet of 33k emails is a very specific number.  Where did he get that number?

[Spirit]

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Russia did that either 1) led Democrat voters to actually vote for Trump or 2) that caused Democrat voters to just stay home. 

Did they meddle in our election?  Absolutely!  But I still don't know what they did that actually changed the outcome. 

Oh wait ... did they do this video?  If they did, then forget everything I just wrote.

 

 

 

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Geoff said:

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what Russia did that either 1) led Democrat voters to actually vote for Trump or 2) that caused Democrat voters to just stay home. 

Did they meddle in our election?  Absolutely!  But I still don't know what they did that actually changed the outcome. 

and still, no one is talking about the info that was revealed by the russians... that's very bothersome to me.

unless they hacked into the computers and changed votes or falsified results, i think i'm with you on this. we've done plenty of election meddling for years/decades, but now, somehow, it's wrong when the shoe is on the other foot.

 

[tdawg87]

It's a classic case of "Look over there!". The left has done a remarkable job making people forget about the content of the emails.

Neither side is clean here.

[Rico]

6 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

It's a classic case of "Look over there!". The left has done a remarkable job making people forget about the content of the emails.

Neither side is clean here.

Working with a foreign government to get illegally obtained dirt on your opponent is actually worse than anything that ever was in those e-mails.  

[mtangelsfan]

I agree rico.  However that doesn't change the facts of those emails.  This is why we vote at about 50%.  There is nobody to trust anymore.  We almost expect our leaders to be corrupt.  As if that is the only way to be.  Hard to be passionate about that.

[Glen]

But her emails.

Seems like every day we get more info that our president, directly and/or indirectly, was working with Russia to get elected as POTUS. 

But her emails, that helped her get the DNC nomination. Those are somehow more important.

[tdawg87]

They're more important to him and his supporters. 

And him working with Russia is more important to Dems. 

Neither thing is defensible. Everybody sucks.