Protests and Riots Thread

[Jason]

8 minutes ago, Don said:

I think this is a supremely stupid take on the matter. When people talk about white privilege this is the kind of shit they're referring to.

So taking responsibility for your actions is "white privilege"? 

[Don]

3 minutes ago, Jason said:

So taking responsibility for your actions is "white privilege"? 

No. Taking responsibility for one's actions is a fine and good thing. And why we have a court system. But when I read a post like Tank's it just reeks of "well if you negroes behaved yourselves, the cops wouldn't feel the need to bash your head in." May not be what he meant, but it sure as hell sounds like it.

[Brandon]

I didn't realize Tank referenced negroes or alluded to them.

[Don]

1 minute ago, Brandon said:

I didn't realize Tank referenced negroes or alluded to them.

Like I said, it's what I hear when I read a message like that. Maybe it's not what he meant, but it sounds that way to me. What I do know is that it is an attempt to shift the blame for a policing issue onto the people being policed through an unrealistic utopian hypothetical.

[Kevin]

Maybe blacks and police can both set a New Years goal of changing their culture of behavior. 

[Taylor]

1 hour ago, Tank said:

i'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to address how the 8 billion pound gorilla in the room is for people to stop breaking the law.

Do you think that everyone is treated fairly in the criminal justice system? Do you think everybody who "breaks the law" receives the same treatment and punishment across the map? What about people who didn't break the law, but were arrested and convicted anyway, but are too poor to afford adequate representation?

 

 

Did people suddenly start breaking the law on a massive scale in 1988, or are there perhaps other factors at play?

[Taylor]

Most of you dudes here are against the War on Drugs, but there's a disconnect because the War on Drugs is directly correlated with the amount of money and incentives the police received to "go after" drug criminals.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Don said:

I think this is a supremely stupid take on the matter. When people talk about white privilege this is the kind of shit they're referring to.

wow, don, that's quite a leap of assumption. it certainly isn't anything i was thinking.

this isn't a color issue for me. it's an issue of people being responsible with their own behavior. 

[Tank]

27 minutes ago, Taylor said:

Do you think that everyone is treated fairly in the criminal justice system? Do you think everybody who "breaks the law" receives the same treatment and punishment across the map? What about people who didn't break the law, but were arrested and convicted anyway, but are too poor to afford adequate representation?

i don't think everyone is treated fairly, and i wasn't claiming they were - we've seen a great disconnect between those with money and those without over the decades - but i know that's not the issue you want to engage about.

and i would gladly support reforms in how parts of our criminal justice system works so that everyone is treated fairly in the system.

but it still goes back to my original point - people need to behave responsibly. 

[Taylor]

1 minute ago, Tank said:

i don't think everyone is treated fairly, and i wasn't claiming they were - we've seen a great disconnect between those with money and those without over the decades - but i know that's not the issue you want to engage about.

and i would gladly support reforms in how parts of our criminal justice system works so that everyone is treated fairly in the system.

I think criminal justice reform is something that all people can get on board with.

 

Quote

but it still goes back to my original point - people need to behave responsibly. 

Of course. But personal responsibility isn't the only factor. If that were the case, the prison population would have increased at the same rate as the overall population.

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Don said:

Like I said, it's what I hear when I read a message like that. Maybe it's not what he meant, but it sounds that way to me. What I do know is that it is an attempt to shift the blame for a policing issue onto the people being policed through an unrealistic utopian hypothetical.

it's not at all what i meant. my statement was not about privilege.

since june we've seen riots and protests almost nightly involving a wide spectrum of races. there clearly are some policing issues that need to be addressed. but i have yet to see or hear anyone stand up in front of a mic or a camera and say something along the lines of "the police departments need to make changes, but we as citizens need to do the same with how we behave. you need to make sure no one has a reason to arrest you. live within the law. so act responsibly."

if that sounds like white privilege to you, well, so be it, but it's not what my intention. i'm not trying to make this a race issue.

[Don]

9 minutes ago, Tank said:

wow, don, that's quite a leap of assumption. it certainly isn't anything i was thinking.

this isn't a color issue for me. it's an issue of people being responsible with their own behavior. 

I guess the bigger problem I see is that your mind frame seems to be that if people behave better then police brutality will solve itself. My take is that the police shouldn't assault anybody regardless of their behavior. They are paid to be the adults in the room and to keep everyone (including suspected criminals) safe, and thus need to be held to a higher standard. The only exception to that being when someone is an immediate threat to the safety of others/the officers. Simple poor behavior by a civilian doesn't justify poor behavior by police. 

[Don]

10 minutes ago, Tank said:

it's not at all what i meant. my statement was not about privilege.

since june we've seen riots and protests almost nightly involving a wide spectrum of races. there clearly are some policing issues that need to be addressed. but i have yet to see or hear anyone stand up in front of a mic or a camera and say something along the lines of "the police departments need to make changes, but we as citizens need to do the same with how we behave. you need to make sure no one has a reason to arrest you. live within the law. so act responsibly."

if that sounds like white privilege to you, well, so be it, but it's not what my intention. i'm not trying to make this a race issue.

I know you don't mean it to be a race issue, but it is a race issue unfortunately. There are a lot of places in this country where being non-white results in more interaction with police regardless of behavior. And the same works in reverse a lot of times as well. 

[Tank]

13 minutes ago, Don said:

I guess the bigger problem I see is that your mind frame seems to be that if people behave better then police brutality will solve itself.

you're talking about two separate issues -- the number of people arrested vs. the number of people assaulted by the police.

14 minutes ago, Don said:

My take is that the police shouldn't assault anybody regardless of their behavior.

while i agree with you on this, there is the reality that not everyone confronted by the police goes willingly or quietly. 

there is a perception out there that the police are going around looking for who they can target next just because of their skin color. i disagree that that's what's happening. 

17 minutes ago, Don said:

The only exception to that being when someone is an immediate threat to the safety of others/the officers. Simple poor behavior by a civilian doesn't justify poor behavior by police. 

you and i agree.

[T.G.]

2 hours ago, Tank said:

i'm still waiting for someone - anyone - to address how the 8 billion pound gorilla in the room is for people to stop breaking the law.

there certainly is a need for some police reform, but there's every bit a need for people to stop committing crimes.

The gorilla has a name.... It's King Kong. Have some respect.

[Taylor]

27 minutes ago, Tank said:

there is a perception out there that the police are going around looking for who they can target next just because of their skin color. i disagree that that's what's happening. 

Do you have any evidence to back this up? There is plenty of evidence to support that people of color are more likely to interact with police, even though crime numbers are virtually equal across all races. Those prison numbers I showed you earlier ... guess which ethnic group makes up a disproportionate amount of those in prison?

There are very few police officers who are overtly racist. The vast majority of them are good people with good intentions, and they truly care about keeping communities safe. But it's difficult to explain the statistics without accepting there is a racial dynamic.

Have you seen this video, Tank? It's by the guy who created Veggie Tales.

 

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 hours ago, Taylor said:

It's funny how people take "defund the police" to mean "strip the police of all of its funding," but that's how it is, so I agree with Obama that the movement needs a new marketing slogan.

There are a lot of people who want exactly that.

[AngelsLakersFan]

1 hour ago, Taylor said:

 

Did people suddenly start breaking the law on a massive scale in 1988, or are there perhaps other factors at play?

I dont know if this means anything...

[Kevin]

Even if police get defunded, I think they’ll be okay since they are pretty resourceful. After all, civil forfeiture is still legal in forty seven states.

[Taylor]

11 minutes ago, AngelsLakersFan said:

I dont know if this means anything...

It actually means a lot if you put the two together.

Despite violent crime going down, incarceration rates have gone up at an incredible margin. That means a dramatic increase in the amount of non-violent offenders who have been locked up.

[AngelsLakersFan]

3 minutes ago, Taylor said:

It actually means a lot if you put the two together.

Despite violent crime going down, incarceration rates have gone up at an incredible margin. That means a dramatic increase in the amount of non-violent offenders who have been locked up.

I suppose that is one way to read it.

[gotbeer]

1 hour ago, T.G. said:

The gorilla has a name.... It's King Kong. Have some respect.

 

[Blarg]

11 minutes ago, Taylor said:

It actually means a lot if you put the two together.

Despite violent crime going down, incarceration rates have gone up at an incredible margin. That means a dramatic increase in the amount of non-violent offenders who have been locked up.

Taylor, let me ask you something, can you see why the two graphs can look to be in conflict with each other?

Just because a prisoner is added, that doesn't mean one is subtracted. Over the years the three strike rule has increased the length of stay so there are fewer seeing parole due to multiple felonies. The precipitous rise was evitable considering the extended sentencing increased in 1994 for multiple felony convictions. Not all states have three strike legislation but it doesn't mean they are not following that as guidelines for sentencing.   

 

[Blarg]

How were the drinks?

[Adam]

I agree there are racists mean cops. I think I started a thread about it. I also believe on a per capita basis black people commit more crimes. I wish they would decriminalize many of the things people are being harassed, arrested, charged and convicted of.