Alex Wood signs with the Dodgers (1 year, $4 million)

[mulwin444]

Eppler, who for 4 seasons has seen his pitching rotations ravaged by injuries, didn't want to sign an injury-prone Wood who was only healthy enough to make 7 shitty starts last season?  Weird...

[eligrba]

35 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Would you trade Marsh + more prospects, not named Adell for Clevenger?

No, but I would trade Vinnie Pestano for Clevenger if they were dumb enough to do it.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

16 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Eppler, who for 4 seasons has seen his pitching rotations ravaged by injuries, didn't want to sign an injury-prone Wood who was only healthy enough to make 7 shitty starts last season?  Weird...

Harvey and Cahill weren't injured...

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

5 minutes ago, eligrba said:

No, but I would trade Vinnie Pestano for Clevenger if they were dumb enough to do it.

l would absolutely trade Marsh + for Clevenger... We would have good chance to even win the division with him. I'm just not sure Cleveland would do it anyway.

Edited January 13, 2020 by Ace-Of-Diamonds

[Lou]

I doubt we had any interest in Wood. 

[eligrba]

Just now, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

l would absolutely trade Marsh + for Clevenger... We would have good chance to even win the division with him.

No argument by me. I am not against trading Marsh, I am against trading him now. Who knew Clevenger would become the pitcher he is when the Angels traded him. I am betting on an improved scouting department to more cautious about who promising prospects are traded for.

[mulwin444]

6 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Harvey and Cahill weren't injured...

Are you talking before signing in 2019, because Cahill missed 10 starts due to an Achilles injury and Harvey missed most of 2016 and 2017 with surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome and a fractured scapula respectively and, as of 2018, was still a project dealing with mechanical issues.

Or after signing in 2019 when Harvey went on the DL before being released and Cahill continued his streak of not getting near 150 IP for the 6th season in a row.

 

[Claude]

Lol. Since we didn’t sign Wood he sucks. If we had signed him there would be people here praising his upside and shuffling their starting rotation baseball cards. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

15 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Are you talking before signing in 2019, because Cahill missed 10 starts due to an Achilles injury and Harvey missed most of 2016 and 2017 with surgery for thoracic outlet syndrome and a fractured scapula respectively and, as of 2018, was still a project dealing with mechanical issues.

Or after signing in 2019 when Harvey went on the DL before being released and Cahill continued his streak of not getting near 150 IP for the 6th season in a row.

 

Their signing was a big mistake along with Cody Allen and Lucroy. A disaster even without injures. Even if Harvey was healthy he was a disaster, probably better he did go on the DL. Eppler doesn't get a pass on last season either. He still has time to finish this off season with 1 more decent pitcher. 

[mulwin444]

All these "project" signings are what Eppler did before what had no internal options, was building his barren farm, dealt with a ridiculous amount of elbow injuries and did not have the financial flexibility to make an impact signing.

So we got Tim Lincecum and Alex Meyer and Jesse Chavez and Parker Bridwell and Trevor Cahill and Matt Harvey and converted guys like J.C Ramirez and Felix Pena to starting to fill in the gaps and they gave us the mixed results that you'd expect and people bitched about the fact that we take on these projects to begin with.  So, Eppler signs/trades for two pitchers with a recent history of health and durability who happen to be under the age of 30 to support talented but recovering pitchers like Ohtani and Heaney and talented but young starters like Canning, Sandoval, and Suarez and next thought is "Man, I really wish we could inject a little more uncertainty into this by signing a couple of injury-related question marks like Walker or Wood?

 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

All these "project" signings are what Eppler did before what had no internal options

And now; pitching is still a mess.

[floplag]

I still feel like maybe were jumping the gun on the "were done" talk.
No one, literally no one, is done at this point i dont think.  Everyone is looking at what might make sense for them trade wise at this point.
The problem i see is that almost none of the trades make sense.  Everyone is asking for the moon and stars, which who can blame them, but at some point they will need to come back to earth if they actually want to get deals done.
I think now that arbitration is done, we might see some movement there and heading into ST.

[mulwin444]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

And now; pitching is still a mess.

The pitching is not a "mess" and it is a lot better than 2016-2019.  

2016: Weaver was in his death throws at 5.06 ERA 178 IP, Shoemaker put a quality 3.88 ERA 103 ERA+ in 160 IP while the rest were at or near 100 IP

2017: Ricky Nolasco was bad (4.92 ERA 86 ERA+) in 181 IP,  J.C. Ramirez was decent (ERA 102 ERA+) in 147 IP. Jesse Chavez was bad, and Parker Bridwell peaked (3.64 ERA 117 ERA+) in 121 IP, never to be repeated again.

2018: Heaney showed flashes of his 3 starter ability (4.15 ERA 101 ERA+) at times in 181 IP, Barria surprised in (3.41 ERA 123 ERA+) in 129.1 IP monitored innings, while Skaggs started fast but fell apart...everyone else was under 100 IP

2019: Complete disaster

This is best rotation we've had since 2015.  You have two durable starters at least (Bundy and Teheren) another with recent enough success (Heaney) and young, legit starters with upside (Ohtani, Canning, Sandoval and Barria).  It could be better but this is the best it has been in a while.

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 minute ago, mulwin444 said:

The pitching is not a "mess" and it is a lot better than 2016-2019.  

2016: Weaver was in his death throws at 5.06 ERA 178 IP, Shoemaker put a quality 3.88 ERA 103 ERA+ in 160 IP while the rest were at or near 100 IP

2017: Ricky Nolasco was bad (4.92 ERA 86 ERA+) in 181 IP,  J.C. Ramirez was decent (ERA 102 ERA+) in 147 IP. Jesse Chavez was bad, and Parker Bridwell peaked (3.64 ERA 117 ERA+) in 121 IP, never to be repeated again.

2018: Heaney showed flashes of his 3 starter ability (4.15 ERA 101 ERA+) at times in 181 IP, Barria surprised in (3.41 ERA 123 ERA+) in 129.1 IP monitored innings, while Skaggs started fast but fell apart...everyone else was under 100 IP

2019: Complete disaster

This is best rotation we've had since 2015.  You have two durable starters at least (Bundy and Teheren) another with recent enough success (Heaney) and young, legit starters with upside (Ohtani, Canning, Sandoval and Barria).  It could be better but this is the best it has been in a while.

Maybe better than the last few years for sure, but 4th best in division. Probably in the bottom third in AL. It's not enough to suit me.

[floplag]

4 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Maybe better than the last few years for sure, but 4th best in division. Probably in the bottom third in AL. It's not enough to suit me.

Heres the thing though, i think people are over stating Epplers "failures" in regard to pitching this off season.
By the reports weve read, Almost all of them wanted to be elsewhere so short of a huge overpay, which would be perhaps an even larger failure, what was he to do?
Cole and Stras i dont think we were ever really in the picture.
Bumgarder had his preference.
Wheeler supposedly preferred the east coast.
About the only one of the top guys we might have dropped the ball on was Kuechel and let be honest he wasnt the "ace" everyone wanted.
I get the disappointment, but really, i kinda feel like its misplaced to a large degree at this point based on what weve read.

[fan_since79]

15 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

In before "WTF, Eppler should have offered $5 million."

Trent Rush was going on and on yesterday about getting Wood for $9 million.

So much for that dream.

[mulwin444]

27 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Maybe better than the last few years for sure, but 4th best in division. Probably in the bottom third in AL. It's not enough to suit me.

Okay?  I'm sure it's not enough suit Eppler or Moreno either which is why he's not done but the idea is to improve the team which he's done to this point.  

Edited January 13, 2020 by mulwin444

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

Like Fletcher said, what ever you pay for a free agent is an over pay if you're the only team willing to pay it. We could have got Kluber but apparently Marsh is better?

Edited January 13, 2020 by Ace-Of-Diamonds

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

2 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

Okay?  I'm sure it's not enough suit Eppler or Moreno either which is why he's not done but the idea is to improve the team which he's done to this point.  

The point is to get Trout to the playoffs ask anyone.

[stormngt]

11 hours ago, RendZone said:

The Rendon signing was terrific. They needed more punch in the lineup. They missed out on a frontline pitcher because a very obsolete contract is hitting home. There’s no denying that Albert’s $29M this season and $30M next season would’ve easily allowed us the flexibility to sign a solid arm. 

Are you saying we would have been able to sign Cole, Bumbgardner, Ryu, Wood, or Kuechel had we not had Albert on the books?

GTFO Cole is the only one we arguably couldn't afford.  Come back to reality!

[Docwaukee]

34 minutes ago, mulwin444 said:

All these "project" signings are what Eppler did before what had no internal options, was building his barren farm, dealt with a ridiculous amount of elbow injuries and did not have the financial flexibility to make an impact signing.

So we got Tim Lincecum and Alex Meyer and Jesse Chavez and Parker Bridwell and Trevor Cahill and Matt Harvey and converted guys like J.C Ramirez and Felix Pena to starting to fill in the gaps and they gave us the mixed results that you'd expect and people bitched about the fact that we take on these projects to begin with.  So, Eppler signs/trades for two pitchers with a recent history of health and durability who happen to be under the age of 30 to support talented but recovering pitchers like Ohtani and Heaney and talented but young starters like Canning, Sandoval, and Suarez and next thought is "Man, I really wish we could inject a little more uncertainty into this by signing a couple of injury-related question marks like Walker or Wood?

 

if there is an option to get a player who's good and reliable then I'm all for it.  

but at this point it seems we have one of two options.  reliably shitty or unreliably good.  neither takes away what we already have and that core group of young guys have options so there is some roster flexibility there.  I'm definitely more inclined to the latter as the former probably just takes innings from guys with more potential.  So taking a flyer on a guy like Wood doesn't add additional uncertainty, but increases your overall depth of uncertain guys.  The more of those guys you have, the more likely that a couple will work out.  

If Wood pitches well for 150 innings and Suarez sits in the minors then fine.  

If Wood pitches well for 75 innings and half a season then ok but that's still 75 innings you don't need from way down your depth chart of starters and/or your pen

If Wood pitches crappy or gets injured then you cut bait and you're no worse off than you are now.  

Good yet unspectacular innings still available

[mulwin444]

Cole took the most money ever offered to a pitcher to play for the Yankees.

Strasburg was offered 7 years, at age 32, and a shit-ton of money by the team he just won a World Series, who also still has Corbin and Scherzer, to come back.

Wheeler took less money to stay back east with family.

Bumgarner took less money to be with his horses in AZ.

Ryu is awesome when he's not injured and got $80 million guaranteed for 4 years at age 33.

Keuchel: Career 3.67 ERA 110 ERA+ 1.260 WHIP vs Teheren Career 3.67 ERA 110 ERA+ 1.211 WHIP and 3 years younger...why would you pay $46.5 million more for Keuchel?

After Strasburg set the market and the Yankees made money no object in regards to Cole, that was pretty much it for the ace-level starters.  After that, every other option was problematic for one reason or another.  This is reality of things.

[stormngt]

10 hours ago, RBM said:

Well Teheran was the Braves opening day starter for each of the past six seasons.

And an opening day starter is by definition a front line starter.

Therefore Teheran is a front line starter.

Cahill is a frontline starter?

[mulwin444]

12 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

The point is to get Trout to the playoffs ask anyone.

Pretty sure Eppler is still allowed to make moves past January 13th...

[mulwin444]

7 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

if there is an option to get a player who's good and reliable then I'm all for it.  

but at this point it seems we have one of two options.  reliably shitty or unreliably good.  neither takes away what we already have and that core group of young guys have options so there is some roster flexibility there.  I'm definitely more inclined to the latter as the former probably just takes innings from guys with more potential.  So taking a flyer on a guy like Wood doesn't add additional uncertainty, but increases your overall depth of uncertain guys.  The more of those guys you have, the more likely that a couple will work out.  

If Wood pitches well for 150 innings and Suarez sits in the minors then fine.  

If Wood pitches well for 75 innings and half a season then ok but that's still 75 innings you don't need from way down your depth chart of starters and/or your pen

If Wood pitches crappy or gets injured then you cut bait and you're no worse off than you are now.  

Good yet unspectacular innings still available

If can be signed for $4 mil with incentives with his track record for success just a couple of years ago while other teams are desperate for pitching, what does that tell you about the confidence in Wood's ability to make through a season healthy?  

I wouldn't minded signing Wood at all for $5-$9 million for one season to take a shot but it's clear, with Ohtani, Heaney, and Canning all with recent injury issues, he prioritizing predictability and stability in the rotation versus potential upside on an injury-plague player.