AngelsWin.com Today: Angelswin.com's Top 30 Angels Prospects for 2020

[rafibomb]

Personally I'm most excited to see Kyren Paris and Jack Kochanowicz's upcoming season.

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 hours ago, True Grich said:

No Baldoquin?

Dammit. Beat me to it.

[Angelsjunky]

I agree that the Chris Rodriguez ranking is very optimistic, but I think it really comes down to upside: he has the highest in the system -- not including Ohtani, of course. That said, if he isn't healthy this year, he'll most likely plummet.

But yeah, I think C-Rod's ranking is a case of us being a bit enamored with his upside, and maybe turning a blind eye to the obvious concerns. With a fan-based list, you're going to get this kind of homer bias on occasion (and I'm admittedly as guilty as anyone).

 

[tdawg87]

3 hours ago, Chuckster70 said:

btw, shout out to all who contributed on this list and to @Angelsjunky who spent hours putting it together. 

Special thanks to: @Dochalo, @ettin, @Dave Saltzer, @totdprods, @Second Base, @Inside Pitch, @rafibomb for input. We also had some insider info from scouts abroad who contributed to this feature. 

Which one of these turds had Soriano at 23?

[Angelsjunky]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Which one of these turds had Soriano at 23?

The same turd who had Stiward Aquino #8, Luis Madero #10, and Will Wilson #29. 

But I won't name names.

[Second Base]

52 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I agree that the Chris Rodriguez ranking is very optimistic, but I think it really comes down to upside: he has the highest in the system -- not including Ohtani, of course. That said, if he isn't healthy this year, he'll most likely plummet.

But yeah, I think C-Rod's ranking is a case of us being a bit enamored with his upside, and maybe turning a blind eye to the obvious concerns. With a fan-based list, you're going to get this kind of homer bias on occasion (and I'm admittedly as guilty as anyone).

 

I think Kochanowicz has him firmly beat in the upside department.

[ettin]

1 hour ago, tdawg87 said:

Which one of these turds had Soriano at 23?

I will gladly raise my hand!

Soriano's walk rate increased this season and it has been consistently high most of his career. If he wants to succeed as a Major League starter he needs to tame it. What is the point of striking hitters out if you load the bases while you are at it. That leaves little margin for error.

He needs to polish up or he becomes a bullpen arm or even trade bait.

And Will Wilson was completely lackluster in his first partial season. Yes he has a lot of potential but he did not impress me and you have to earn my ranking!!!!

[Docwaukee]

16 minutes ago, ettin said:

I will gladly raise my hand!

Soriano's walk rate increased this season and it has been consistently high most of his career. If he wants to succeed as a Major League starter he needs to tame it. What is the point of striking hitters out if you load the bases while you are at it. That leaves little margin for error.

He needs to polish up or he becomes a bullpen arm or even trade bait.

And Will Wilson was completely lackluster in his first partial season. Yes he has a lot of potential but he did not impress me and you have to earn my ranking!!!!

like Aquino and his 1.591 career whip or Kyren Paris and his 13 plate appearances?  

 

[Lou]

I like the guy who didn't pitch last year

[Docwaukee]

8 minutes ago, Lou said:

I like the guy who didn't pitch last year

I didn't pitch last year.  do you like me?  

[Lou]

3 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

I didn't pitch last year.  do you like me?  

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Lou said:

[Second Base]

5 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

 

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, ettin said:

I will gladly raise my hand!

Soriano's walk rate increased this season and it has been consistently high most of his career. If he wants to succeed as a Major League starter he needs to tame it. What is the point of striking hitters out if you load the bases while you are at it. That leaves little margin for error.

He needs to polish up or he becomes a bullpen arm or even trade bait.

And Will Wilson was completely lackluster in his first partial season. Yes he has a lot of potential but he did not impress me and you have to earn my ranking!!!!

It just seems like walk rate is a really flimsy excuse for the low ranking. No doubt he could stand to improve, but it isn't as if this system has pitchers with better offerings, control and upside to rank ahead of him. 

Canning already graduated, as has Suarez. Sandoval lacks the upside. Rodriguez is too injury prone. Kochanowicz hasn't thrown a single professional pitch. Hernandez has an even greater likelihood of ending in relief, Bradish lacks the arsenal, Yan is in the same boat with more limited upside and Aquino will be 21 next year, already has a TJ surgery under his belt, has not pitched a single inning above rookie ball, where his ERA is over 6 and has posted a largely similar walk rate.

I don't see anything logically justifiable in the ranking. 

But if you said that you simply don't like him, I'd at least understand that. But I can't see any trustworthy justification you could use here other than that.

I mean if Soriano were in the Padres system, I could see it. They have Gore, Patino, Morejon, Weathers, Baez, Bolanos, and Espinoza. 

[tdawg87]

ettin obviously went to USC.

[Angelsjunky]

4 hours ago, Second Base said:

I think Kochanowicz has him firmly beat in the upside department.

Maybe.

[Docwaukee]

22 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

Maybe.

for me that's a tough sell when he's yet to throw a pitch in a pro baseball game.  I'm guessing that has more to do with my lack of knowledge of him than anything so my opinion could change pretty quick.  

[Chuck]

Props to @Blarg for this features image.

[tchula]

First, thank you everyone for these rankings.  You all did a spectacular job.  And I read minor league thread daily (well, at least when there are new posts).  And, of course, I have my internal rankings.  Now, I do not study these guys as much as you, but I have kept up with them.  There will be some guys I follow closely this year, and quite frankly, this will be a make or break year for about ten prospects.  I do agree with some, although Sandoval is technically eligible, I have a hard time viewing him as a prospect.  I am hoping Callaway can do wonders with him, because when he got to the majors his fastball was much better than advertised.  I believe the CRod rankings are a bit high with his injury, but I have to remind myself that Frankie Rodriguez could barely pitch in the minors (if memory serves) because one injury after another.  And then after stringing a few months of healthy appearance made the 40 man roster in September, and of course the rest is history.  But I also think of guys like Alex Meyer (granted I know he's a different body type etc.).  My only question is why didn't they opt to do surgery two years ago when his back issues started manifesting.  It almost seems like they lost an entire year of development.  It was like when Richards spent a year trying to rehab his way through his elbow issues rather than just getting TJ surgery.  He just simply delayed the inevitable.  On another note, I also believe Ortega will be claimed in the Rule 5 draft by someone.  He has the makings of a solid reliever. 

[Blarg]

I think the only way Taylor Ward can be of any value is to move him back to catcher. As a part time backup and player that can cover 1st, 3rd and left field he becomes a solid 26th man even if his bat is tepid. Otherwise the Angels need to package him for trade because I don't see him pushing anyone off the roster for the limited skills he currently has.

[Second Base]

2 hours ago, tchula said:

First, thank you everyone for these rankings.  You all did a spectacular job.  And I read minor league thread daily (well, at least when there are new posts).  And, of course, I have my internal rankings.  Now, I do not study these guys as much as you, but I have kept up with them.  There will be some guys I follow closely this year, and quite frankly, this will be a make or break year for about ten prospects.  I do agree with some, although Sandoval is technically eligible, I have a hard time viewing him as a prospect.  I am hoping Callaway can do wonders with him, because when he got to the majors his fastball was much better than advertised.  I believe the CRod rankings are a bit high with his injury, but I have to remind myself that Frankie Rodriguez could barely pitch in the minors (if memory serves) because one injury after another.  And then after stringing a few months of healthy appearance made the 40 man roster in September, and of course the rest is history.  But I also think of guys like Alex Meyer (granted I know he's a different body type etc.).  My only question is why didn't they opt to do surgery two years ago when his back issues started manifesting.  It almost seems like they lost an entire year of development.  It was like when Richards spent a year trying to rehab his way through his elbow issues rather than just getting TJ surgery.  He just simply delayed the inevitable.  On another note, I also believe Ortega will be claimed in the Rule 5 draft by someone.  He has the makings of a solid reliever. 

Agreed on Ortega. Position players in the rule 5 largely are the Taylor Featherston type, where there just isn't a whole lot of projection. I think the best player the Angels too in that phase of the draft was Ji Man Choi and even then, they couldn't keep him. 

Starting pitchers are equally hard to find in na rule 5 draft. Any of them work having are protected typically. Teams like to stockpile their starters.

But relievers are the guys to target. You'll find several guys each draft that are in AA and throwing in the mid-90's that are worth inviting to camp. And even if they aren't as polished in camp, teams will house them in the bullpen to eat up garbage innings as an audition.

Which all pretty much describes Ortega. And given his starter experience he's the sort that could go multiple innings as well. Personally, I would have protected him. There are a handful of players on the 40 man that aren't very good at all. Taylor Cole, Jose Rodriguez and Zack Cozart come to mind.

[Second Base]

10 minutes ago, Blarg said:

I think the only way Taylor Ward can be of any value is to move him back to catcher. As a part time backup and player that can cover 1st, 3rd and left field he becomes a solid 26th man even if his bat is tepid. Otherwise the Angels need to package him for trade because I don't see him pushing anyone off the roster for the limited skills he currently has.

I don't think it's any coincidence that his bat exploded upon being moved away from catcher. And he has the speed and the arm to be a solid outfielder. The power is real too, and the plate discipline isn't terrible. 

He reminds me a lot of former catcher Wil Myers as far as his abilities go. That's ultimately his upside. Myers sucked last c year but will have stretches where he's a great middle of the order hitter.

[ScruffytheJanitor]

This is too good. You need to sprinkle in some more hot takes so I can complain more!

• Rodriquez at #4 is bold, but I don't hate it. Could easily be a #3 starter before we realize it-- JUST. STAY. HEALTHY.
• Hermosillo was perfectly ranked. Could contribute, could be the classic "AAAA" player.
• Similarly, Jackson was perfectly ranked as well. He's going to be the Brandon Marsh of the 2020/2021 off-season.
• Nailed it on Stallings--- heck, I may have moved him up a couple of spots. He feels like a guy that ends up starting 20 games as a rookie (holding his own) and then being a better-than-he-should-be #5 starter for 10 years.

I still think this group is a tad too low on Will Wilson. I think his bat speed is underrated (not top-shelf, mind you, just underrated) because his swing is longer than it needs to be. I also think there is a better shot that he sticks at short than most people give him credit for.

[ettin]

7 hours ago, Second Base said:

It just seems like walk rate is a really flimsy excuse for the low ranking. No doubt he could stand to improve, but it isn't as if this system has pitchers with better offerings, control and upside to rank ahead of him. 

Canning already graduated, as has Suarez. Sandoval lacks the upside. Rodriguez is too injury prone. Kochanowicz hasn't thrown a single professional pitch. Hernandez has an even greater likelihood of ending in relief, Bradish lacks the arsenal, Yan is in the same boat with more limited upside and Aquino will be 21 next year, already has a TJ surgery under his belt, has not pitched a single inning above rookie ball, where his ERA is over 6 and has posted a largely similar walk rate.

I don't see anything logically justifiable in the ranking. 

But if you said that you simply don't like him, I'd at least understand that. But I can't see any trustworthy justification you could use here other than that.

I mean if Soriano were in the Padres system, I could see it. They have Gore, Patino, Morejon, Weathers, Baez, Bolanos, and Espinoza. 

Why is it a flimsy excuse Scotty? Walk rate is integral to every pitchers evaluation and Soriano's is getting worse not better? Why would you say I hate Soriano? There is a lot to like there but he is not a God-level prospect. I know you heavily like the guy but you are overly protective of a lot of our prospects and i think you let that cloud your judgment too much.

I leaned heavily on statistical results in my rankings, rather than report hype, advertised pedigree, and player potential. Both are perfectly good methods among many methods to evaluate talent, it just so happens I chose the former.

You have your opinion I have mine, that is what makes a wisdom of the crowds process better than 1-2 people doing it.

And as far as Kochanowicz goes you know exactly why I and every other evaluator for this list placed him so high: We trust InsidePitch and his organizational contact. Surprised you threw that out there when you know the source.

Very mature by the way to openly question a fellow team evaluator in the open. Brings a lot of trust to our AW.com process. Makes me recall the old manager line, "Praise in public, criticize in private." (of which I practiced in an initial response to the article posting about you, read above).

[Second Base]

5 minutes ago, ScruffytheJanitor said:

This is too good. You need to sprinkle in some more hot takes so I can complain more!

• Rodriquez at #4 is bold, but I don't hate it. Could easily be a #3 starter before we realize it-- JUST. STAY. HEALTHY.
• Hermosillo was perfectly ranked. Could contribute, could be the classic "AAAA" player.
• Similarly, Jackson was perfectly ranked as well. He's going to be the Brandon Marsh of the 2020/2021 off-season.
• Nailed it on Stallings--- heck, I may have moved him up a couple of spots. He feels like a guy that ends up starting 20 games as a rookie (holding his own) and then being a better-than-he-should-be #5 starter for 10 years.

I still think this group is a tad too low on Will Wilson. I think his bat speed is underrated (not top-shelf, mind you, just underrated) because his swing is longer than it needs to be. I also think there is a better shot that he sticks at short than most people give him credit for.

My thing with Wilson is that despite the great approach, contact ability, bat speed and gap power, there really isn't much in the way of power projection which makes it difficult to justify the first round selection.

My hope is that he thickens up, fills out and takes that middle infield ability and slides over to 3B, and some of those doubles end up leaving the park. He'd turn into a good hitting, good fielding, power 3B.

I won't deny that the kid can hit though.