Trades, how far are you guys willing to go?

[floplag]

6 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

That's great.   So in your scenario -- the Angels have added pitching and that's been answered.   Does Myers cost less than 65 million dollars now?    That's the mountain that needs to be overcome in your scenario.

 

Agreed, as said its the cost of getting the kid and not losing our kids in the process.   Its 100% the downside to the deal.  

[Tank]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

myers has 3/68.5 left.  

holy cats. does someone have a link to when dipoto was the padres GM? i seemed to have missed that one.

[HaloMilliVanilli]

Would this discussion be any different if Pads attached Chris Paddock to Myers $$$ to offload him?

[T.G.]

2 hours ago, True Grich said:

Take a letter Mejia...

Address it to my wife...

[beatlesrule]

Prospects are more important/worth more than money.

[floplag]

1 hour ago, HaloMilliVanilli said:

Would this discussion be any different if Pads attached Chris Paddock to Myers $$$ to offload him?

Good question.  

[tdawg87]

We have money. If Eppler has to trade for a pitcher this off-season than either he has fucked up real bad or Arte has gotten cheap.

Now if an opportunity presents itself for a catcher under club control for at least a couple years, then of course you gotta look at it. But only that situation is worth trading prospects for.

[floplag]

5 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

We have money. If Eppler has to trade for a pitcher this off-season than either he has fucked up real bad or Arte has gotten cheap.

Now if an opportunity presents itself for a catcher under club control for at least a couple years, then of course you gotta look at it. But only that situation is worth trading prospects for.

My point was that there is a third option, taking back someones bad money to save the prospects.   since, as you say, we have money, is that not a viable option?
Again this is assuming that the pitchers are taken care of thru FA.  

[tchula]

I really would be hesitant trading any top prospects.  I really think we should explore trading Bedriosian and Simba, for some quality prospects to save some money.  I do believe we may get a good left handed reliever at some teams' AAA for Bedriosian, but I am not sure what we can pull in for Simba since he only has one year left on his contract.  But doing this will give us the flexibility to sign both Cole and Wheeler, and maybe have enough left over to offer someone like Moustakas a 2 year 20 million dollar contract or even Yoshitomo Tsutsugo a nice contract if you want to platoon various players depending on the days Ohtani DH's.  

[totdprods]

It's crazy to me that people would trade Marsh for a catching prospect and freak when it's in regards to a legit MLB SP, or someone like Willson Contreras.
Mathis was a top catching prospect. Mejia was a top catching prospect. Hedges was a top catching prospect. Jorge Alfaro was a top catching prospect. 

Catching prospects are risky as hell...Realmuto only made one list, #70 before '15. 

[angelsnationtalk]

1 hour ago, tchula said:

I really would be hesitant trading any top prospects.  I really think we should explore trading Bedriosian and Simba, for some quality prospects to save some money.  I do believe we may get a good left handed reliever at some teams' AAA for Bedriosian, but I am not sure what we can pull in for Simba since he only has one year left on his contract.  But doing this will give us the flexibility to sign both Cole and Wheeler, and maybe have enough left over to offer someone like Moustakas a 2 year 20 million dollar contract or even Yoshitomo Tsutsugo a nice contract if you want to platoon various players depending on the days Ohtani DH's.  

If they moved Simmons (Which they won't) it'd be straight salary dump probably so don't count on anything good in return. 

[Second Base]

Normally, I'm averse to trading prospects, for several reasons.

1. Every successful team has a core of stars that they've built around. The Nats had Harper, Rendon, Strasburg, Turner and Robles. The Cubs have Baez, Bryant, Rizzo (they traded for him early), Contreras. The Astros have Altuve, Bregman, Correa and Springer. But the Angels.... As far as star caliber home grown talent, there isn't much. There's Trout and Ohtani. That's about it. Maybe Fletcher gets there someday. The Angels only real shot at reaching this level is if they keep their high ceiling prospects, the ones that everyone else wants. Canning, Adell, Marsh and Jordyn Adams specifically.

2. Our most successful GM ever, Bill Stoneman hoarded prospects. Our stupidest GM ever Jerry Dipoto traded them away or never drafted or signed them in the first place. Common sense. Don't trade your best prospects.

3. Young cost controlled talent is the only avenue to sustained success in this business. You need it to offset the cost of extensions and free agents that keep a team competitive.

4. I've always focused on prospects, so it's just a personal thing that I hate to see them go.

So the only prospects I'm willing to trade are the fringe guys. That won't get them much, but so be it. That's the Taylor Ward, Jose Rojas, Jared Walsh, Kyle Bradish types. I believe those guys will be major leaguers, but with the exception of Taylor Ward, I don't think they'll be particularly impactful.

Edited November 8, 2019 by Second Base

[floplag]

28 minutes ago, Second Base said:

Normally, I'm averse to taking prospects, for several reasons.

1. Every successful team has a core of starts that they've built around. The Nats had Harper, Rendon, Strasburg, Turner and Robles. The Cubs have Baez, Bryant, Rizzo (they traded for him early), Contreras. The Astros have Altuve, Bregman, Correa and Springer. But the Angels.... As far as star caliber home grown talent, there isn't much. There's Trout and Ohtani. That's about it. Maybe Fletcher gets there someday. The Angels only real shot at reaching this level is if they keep their high ceiling prospects, the ones that everyone else wants. Canning, Adell, Marsh and Jordyn Adams specifically.

2. Or most successful GM ever, Bill Stoneman hoarded prospects. Our stupidest GM ever Jerry Dipoto traded them away or never drafted out signed them in the first place. Common sense. Don't trade your best prospects.

3. Young cost controlled talent is the only avenue to sustained success in this business. You need it to offset the cost of extensions and free agents that keep a team competitive.

4. I've always focused on prospects, so it's just a personal thing that I hate to see them go.

So the only prospects I'm willing to trade are the Fringe guys. That won't get them much, but so be it.

i think most here agree with you, but it then begs the question of how to get anything of value in trade.  you get fringe for fringe.
Taking on money though changes that, which is the whole point.  We could get value without losing our own kids.
Its a risk, heck every trade is a huge risk, but if were not willing to part with our own kids, there isnt really any other option trade wise, is there? 

[Second Base]

14 minutes ago, floplag said:

i think most here agree with you, but it then begs the question of how to get anything of value in trade.  you get fringe for fringe.
Taking on money though changes that, which is the whole point.  We could get value without losing our own kids.
Its a risk, heck every trade is a huge risk, but if were not willing to part with our own kids, there isnt really any other option trade wise, is there? 

There is, it's just going to require some creativity is all. There had to be a specific need you have, and there has to be someone on a team that either have a surplus, or a team that won't be competing. 

Like when the Angels traded for Martin Maldonado, Cam Maybin or Ian Kinsler. Maldonado was a very good trade, but Maybin and Kinsler didn't work out the way they hoped, though I'd argue Kinsler netting us Buttrey was worth it. But the point is that for each of those players, the Angels didn't give up any particularly elite tooled prospects. 

That's why I hated the Max Stassi trade as much as I did. The Angels traded not one but two prospects with pretty exciting upside that were killing the lower levels at a young age, in return for a backup catcher. Awful deal.

I like Stassi but he wasn't a necessity, and Rivas specifically isn't fringe.

[totdprods]

37 minutes ago, Second Base said:

That's why I hated the Max Stassi trade as much as I did. The Angels traded not one but two prospects with pretty exciting upside that were killing the lower levels at a young age, in return for a backup catcher. Awful deal

That deal doesn’t bother me much, because while Rainier and Raider are exciting, just really how difficult would it be to sign a couple comparable guys this next international period? They were $700k total. I get that we’d just back to being even steven for project Latin outfielders, but they’re far enough away and not elite enough to where they’re irreplaceable. Sign one less toolsy SS and one more OF. 

Edited November 8, 2019 by totdprods

[UndertheHalo]

What do we figure it would take to pry Sandy Alcantara from the Marlins ?

[Second Base]

15 minutes ago, UndertheHalo said:

What do we figure it would take to pry Sandy Alcantara from the Marlins ?

Brandon Marsh, Chris Rodriguez and Jose Suarez. 

Not worth it.

[UndertheHalo]

Just now, Second Base said:

Brandon Marsh, Chris Rodriguez and Jose Suarez. 

Not worth it.

Ya I figure it would be something like this also.  Definitely not something the Angels should do.  Would be a nice player to get tho. 

[Docwaukee]

3 hours ago, totdprods said:

That deal doesn’t bother me much, because while Rainier and Raider are exciting, just really how difficult would it be to sign a couple comparable guys this next international period? They were $700k total. I get that we’d just back to being even steven for project Latin outfielders, but they’re far enough away and not elite enough to where they’re irreplaceable. Sign one less toolsy SS and one more OF. 

yeah, but it return the Angels got Max Stassi.  

[totdprods]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

yeah, but it return the Angels got Max Stassi.  

Definitely wasn't calling it a good trade...and Uceta or Rivas could haunt us one day...but overall, don't think there's any real harm done here.

[tdawg87]

I agree with Doc that trading younger prospects doesn't really make any sense. It's not like trading a couple guys in AA ball where you have a pretty good idea of what you have. It's probable that neither Rivas or Uceta amount to much, but being that they're so young they could easily end up being mega ultra superstars.

Won't be for years, but I don't think whatever return we get for fuckin Max Stassi will be worth that risk.

[Second Base]

I'll be so pissed if Rivas is Yordan Alvarez redux.

[Troll Daddy]

On 11/7/2019 at 10:23 AM, Warfarin said:

This.  As much as I like Marsh, I'd trade him for a legitimate catching prospect like Ruiz, who is considered a top 50 prospect (or better) in the sport.  With Trout, Upton, and (soon) Adell in the OF, we can probably "afford" to part with Marsh in the right deal.  There aren't many I'd trade him for, but if I could flip him in a deal for a stud catching prospect, then I'd do it.  Would solve our catching problem for years to come.

You can also look at this another way. If Ruiz was the Angels prospect ... would you trade him for Marsh? 

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Troll Daddy said:

You can also look at this another way. If Ruiz was the Angels prospect ... would you trade him for Marsh? 

Context does matter, but that said, it'd be a more involved deal than just that.  It'd take more than Marsh to acquire Ruiz.  That said, the Dodgers probably would be more willing to part with a catching prospect than we would be, because they have the best catching pipeline in baseball.  Conversely, their OF pipeline is a bit weaker, so hence why I thought there could be a "match" with the two teams.

[Second Base]

You don't break up the Marsh Adell bromance that's going on. And you certainly don't trade one to the Dodgers. It'd be a giant middle finger to the portion of the fan base that actually know who Brandon Marsh is.

And even if it isn't, just don't trade Marsh. Don't trade Adams either. Certainly not Adell or Trout. Believe it or not, there's room for cc all of them. The Angels would just have to be ok with the Joe Maddon special, which is playing position players out of position to get their bat in the lineup.

2020: Upton in LF, Trout in CF, Goodwin in RF and Hermosillo as the 4th outfielder until Mid May. Then Adell in RF, Goodwin as the 4th OF and Hermosillo in AAA with Marsh. Jordyn Adams is in advanced A Ball. Marsh gets a late season call up. Over the winter, picks up a 1B mitt for versatility.

2021: Upton in LF, Trout in CF, Adell in RF, Marsh platoons at 1B and starts stealing a few AB's from Upton in LF. Hermosillo is the 4th/5th outfielder on the active roster. Jordyn Adams is in AA.

2022: Upton splits his time between DH and LF. When he isn't in LF, Adell is, which moves Marsh to RF. Trout is still in CF. Adell mostly in RF. Marsh plays mostly 1B, except the two days a week Upton is the DH. Jordyn Adams is in AAA and gets a late season call up.

2023: Trout moves to LF and DH's when Ohtani isn't. Jordyn Adams is in CF. Adell is in RF, Marsh at 1B.

 

Edited November 10, 2019 by Second Base