Player A vs. Player B

[TroutField]

3 hours ago, Dochalo said:

his first two starts accounted for 11 earned runs and he had a 3.64 era after that.  

2.66 era in his last 11 starts.  

Not that a quality start is a great moniker of success but it at least shows some consistency.  

Zack Wheeler had 18 quality starts.  The Angels as a team had 22.  

The Angels had a pitcher go 7 or more innings 10 times the whole season.  Zack Wheeler went 7 or more innings 15 times.  

 

This is sad. 

[ettin]

6 hours ago, totdprods said:

I have a fun trade candidate I'd like to propose for Player C - someone I'd like to see the Angels target if they magically land Cole and Wheeler.

He will be entering his age 27 season in 2020, and had his TJS in June 2013, throws right-handed, and is controlled through the 2021 season, projected to make $5.7m in arbitration, and is a former 1st rounder, taken around the same time as Wheeler.

• Player C: 4.30 ERA, 8.7 H/9, 1.6 HR/9, 2.6 BB/9, 9.2 K/9 in 67 games, 334.2 IP (through his age 26 season)
• Wheeler: 3.90 ERA, 8.6 H/9, 0.9 HR/9, 4.0 BB/9, 8.5 K/9 in 66 GS, 371.2 IP (through his age 27 season)

Now, there's some cherry pickin' here. Player C's stats are omitting his work against the AL East, where he owns a 5.12 ERA in 280 IP, with a H/9 over 9, allowing one more walk per 9 innings, and striking out one less per 9 than his stats above.

Player C is Dylan Bundy, and he needs to get the heck out of the AL East. I can understand Baltimore's reasoning in hoping he puts it all together and becomes a desirable trade chip, but his club control is starting to disappear, and his results aren't improving to the point that would justify the return they've likely hoped to get. Their system is garbage, and they have MLB playing time to offer folks as well. 

Bundy feels like the type of guy you try to acquire before he breaks out. He's young. The kind of arm the Astros fix. The kind of arm that savvy clubs pick up. Boyd, Ray, Thor...these folks will cost a bunch in trade capital. Bundy might not. Bundy might flourish outside of the AL East, maybe learning beside Cole and Wheeler. Someone you could acquire with a package built around something like Suarez, Jones, Hermosillo.

I would be a bit wary of Bundy, he has lost 3.5 mph since 2016, when he was a premium prospect and since 2017 he has lost a full tick and sits at about 91.5 mph.

I too have followed him with interest but the price we pay will have to be for current Dylan not the young hot prospect version.

[totdprods]

9 hours ago, ettin said:

I would be a bit wary of Bundy, he has lost 3.5 mph since 2016, when he was a premium prospect and since 2017 he has lost a full tick and sits at about 91.5 mph.

I too have followed him with interest but the price we pay will have to be for current Dylan not the young hot prospect version.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-dylan-bundy-zack-greinke-20191007-a45nbca53fc67jgcwrrkuzcl5a-story.html

Good article from a couple days ago on Bundy, and how he’s adjusted fo finished velocity. Ironically, a start vs. the Angels was his turning point on dealing with the velocity issues...from the article:

His following starts after had a dramatic decrease in fastballs (he settled in at 49% fastball rate the rest of the season), but Bundy’s mix made him a different pitcher. He allowed three earned runs or fewer in 16 of his last 22 starts, dramatically cut his home run rate and grew confident throwing his off-speed pitches for strikes and using them in any count.

I think he’s at a point where he can be had for a fair price. To have only two years of control left, without having had a breakout season, there is finite time left for the Orioles to get anything truly substantive for him. We’ve seen how even very good rentals are bringing very little at the deadline recently, so before, during, or after 2020 might be their best chance to get something for him, and I think that matches well with some of the Angels more expendable prospects. For instance, if the Angels are bringing in Bundy as a third arm behind two strong signings, parting with someone like Suarez or Barria or a wild-card like Jones isn’t too painful, and it might be Baltimore’s best and last shot at getting two Top 150 types for Bundy. Guys like Ward, Walsh, Rojas, Hermosillo are fringe for the Angels, but could have value on an Orioles team struggling to find everyday players. They wouldn't be key pieces in a trade, but might tip the scale to help keep Eppler from having to part with anyone too integral.

Edited October 18, 2019 by totdprods

[Inside Pitch]

10 hours ago, ettin said:

I would be a bit wary of Bundy, he has lost 3.5 mph since 2016, when he was a premium prospect and since 2017 he has lost a full tick and sits at about 91.5 mph.

I too have followed him with interest but the price we pay will have to be for current Dylan not the young hot prospect version.

....  I should have kept reading, before posting...

[T.G.]

16 hours ago, True Grich said:

I thought Al's son name was Bud?

Nothing?

Screw you guys!

@Lou did I do it right?

[Inside Pitch]

58 minutes ago, totdprods said:

https://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/bs-sp-orioles-dylan-bundy-zack-greinke-20191007-a45nbca53fc67jgcwrrkuzcl5a-story.html

Good article from a couple days ago on Bundy, and how he’s adjusted fo finished velocity. Ironically, a start vs. the Angels was his turning point on dealing with the velocity issues...from the article:

His following starts after had a dramatic decrease in fastballs (he settled in at 49% fastball rate the rest of the season), but Bundy’s mix made him a different pitcher. He allowed three earned runs or fewer in 16 of his last 22 starts, dramatically cut his home run rate and grew confident throwing his off-speed pitches for strikes and using them in any count.

I think he’s at a point where he can be had for a fair price. To have only two years of control left, without having had a breakout season, there is finite time left for the Orioles to get anything truly substantive for him. We’ve seen how even very good rentals are bringing very little at the deadline recently, so before, during, or after 2020 might be their best chance to get something for him, and I think that matches well with some of the Angels more expendable prospects. For instance, if the Angels are bringing in Bundy as a third arm behind two strong signings, parting with someone like Suarez or Barria or a wild-card like Jones isn’t too painful, and it might be Baltimore’s best and last shot at getting two Top 150 types for Bundy. Guys like Ward, Walsh, Rojas, Hermosillo are fringe for the Angels, but could have value on an Orioles team struggling to find everyday players. They wouldn't be key pieces in a trade, but might tip the scale to help keep Eppler from having to part with anyone too integral.

That article was a nice attempt at painting a positive picture  but the results are far more telling than the wishful thinking of a local beat writer..

June -- ERA, 5.68 -- OPS allowed .864 
July -- ERA, 6.75 -- OPS allowed .914

He had a nice finish to the year over his final 10 games but he also benefited from facing 2 of the bottom three offenses in the AL 5 times during that run.   

[Inside Pitch]

8 minutes ago, True Grich said:

Nothing?

Screw you guys!

@Lou did I do it right?

I actually missed that post -- but if we are going there, Id rather trade for Kelly than Dylan...

[totdprods]

1 hour ago, Inside Pitch said:

That article was a nice attempt at painting a positive picture  but the results are far more telling than the wishful thinking of a local beat writer..

June -- ERA, 5.68 -- OPS allowed .864 
July -- ERA, 6.75 -- OPS allowed .914

He had a nice finish to the year over his final 10 games but he also benefited from facing 2 of the bottom three offenses in the AL 5 times during that run.   

But again, a lot of that was being torched by teams that have long torched him...Yankees (9 ER in two GS, 11.1 IP) and Rays (9 ER in 2 GS, 6 IP), teams he'd face a lot less in the AL West.
In fact, his performance against teams .500+ or better and against teams less than .500 was fairly comparable -

• he held the Astros to 4 ER, 1 HR in 2 GS, 12 IP with 2 BB, 12 K,
• Cleveland to 0 ER in 5.2 IP,
• Dodgers to 2 ER in 5.2 IP,
• Boston to 2 ER in 5 IP
• Arizona to 2 ER in 6 IP

He did beat up on Toronto, which is the only AL East team in which he's always handled- 4 GS, 24 IP, 6 ER, 6 BB, 23 K.

In those last 22 starts...

• vs .500 WP% or better: 51.2 innings pitched, 4.88 ERA, 9.8 hits per 9, 3.1 BB per 9, 8.7 K per 9, and 0.7 HR per 9
• vs. -.500 WP% or less: 69.1 innings pitched, 4.41 ERA, 8.8 hits per 9, 2.6 BB per 9, 8.8 K per 9, and 2.1 HR per 9

I'm not saying he's a breakout candidate or a sure thing by any means, but he is someone who would really benefit from a change of scenery and could come at a reasonable, opportunistic price...as our first or second arm? No way.
But if we have netted Cole and another top FA SP and he comes at a reasonable prospect cost, there are worse arms we could take a gamble on, IMO. 

Vs. AL West:

• Houston - 4.91 ERA, 1.36 WHIP, 10 BB, 31 K in 29.1 IP, 6 G, 5 GS, 16 ER
• Texas - 2.65 ERA, 1.03 WHIP, 8 BB, 28 K in 34 IP, 7 G, 5 GS, 10 ER
• Oakland - 5.04 ERA, 1.32 WHIP, 4 BB, 36 K in 25 IP, 5 G, 4 GS, 14 ER
• Seattle - 2.70 ERA, 0.90 WHIP, 4 BB, 24 K in 20 IP, 4 G, 2 GS, 6 ER
• Not counting the Angels, but they've torched him to a 7.00+ ERA...

That comes out to a 3.82 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, 26 BB, 119 strikeouts in 108 innings, and he's never really had a season that would quality as a particularly strong campaign, so there isn't a certain time that skews these numbers. Historically, he's done well vs. the AL West, and horrible against the AL East. Diminishing velocity? His highest strikeout-per-9 totals have come in his last two seasons, 9.0 in 2019, and 9.6 in 2018. Walks, allowing a hit per inning, and 2 HR per game have been his downfall...ideally, a move from AL East bandboxes help with that too.

Something like Jahmai Jones, Taylor Ward/Jared Walsh, and one of Dillon Peters/Jose Suarez/Luis Madero doesn't hurt the Angels really, and it also clears up two 40-man roster spots to protect someone fringey like Oliver Ortega or Adrian De Horta, allows an extra waiver claim, or perhaps a Rule 5 selection on a reliever. There are other implications beyond the players dealt that it could benefit too. We've seen some pitchers immediately improve leaving Baltimore too, like Arrieta, and initially, Gausman.

Edited October 18, 2019 by totdprods

[Inside Pitch]

12 minutes ago, totdprods said:

That comes out to a 3.82 ERA, 1.15 WHIP, 26 BB, 119 strikeouts in 108 innings, and he's never really had a season that would quality as a particularly strong campaign, so there isn't a certain time that skews these numbers. Historically, he's done well vs. the AL West, and horrible against the AL East. Diminishing velocity? His highest strikeout-per-9 totals have come in his last two seasons, 9.0 in 2019, and 9.6 in 2018. Walks, allowing a hit per inning, and 2 HR per game have been his downfall...ideally, a move from AL East bandboxes help with that too.

I can cherry pick the numbers to support my opinions too --  thankfully the normalized and weighted data takes all that into consideration and those are arguing that he is trending in the wrong direction and has been for years.  As far as his K rate being the best it's ever been the last two years -- K rate is up across ALL of MLB the last two years.   The AL average K/9 last year was 8.81 -- Bundy came in at 9.0.   

Look, you like him -- that's fine.   People liked Harvey too and talked up how he finished strong and his velocity was up to finish the year -- I saw a guy that looked to be teetering at the edge of the abyss  Small samples and short stretches of good performance happen -- I wanted no part of Harvey last year, I want no part of Bundy next year.    I'm sure people will point to Homer Bailey's season and think he's worth taking a chance on as well.  My position is that the Angels can ill afford to waste resources on guys that at best are trending back towards mediocrity.

You might be right, Bundy may have discovered how to pitch with diminished velocity -- I simply don't want to bet against the averages in this case.

[totdprods]

14 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

I can cherry pick the numbers to support my opinions too --  thankfully the normalized and weighted data takes all that into consideration and those are arguing that he is trending in the wrong direction and has been for years.  As far as his K rate being the best it's ever been the last two years -- K rate is up across ALL of MLB the last two years.   The AL average K/9 last year was 8.81 -- Bundy came in at 9.0.   

Look, you like him -- that's fine.   People liked Harvey too and talked up how he finished strong and his velocity was up to finish the year -- I saw a guy that looked to be teetering at the edge of the abyss  Small samples and short stretches of good performance happen -- I wanted no part of Harvey last year, I want no part of Bundy next year.    I'm sure people will point to Homer Bailey's season and think he's worth taking a chance on as well.  My position is that the Angels can ill afford to waste resources on guys that at best are trending back towards mediocrity.

You might be right, Bundy may have discovered how to pitch with diminished velocity -- I simply don't want to bet against the averages in this case.

We'll see how it plays out...I just tire of the same 'Sign Cole, Sign Odorizzi, Sign Grandal' discussion every day. 

It's cherry-picking a bit, sure, but, it's also a pretty reasonable split to consider. Dude has been torched his whole career against teams familiar with him, in extremely hitter-friendly environs. Getting him out for a year might be enough to coax 160-180 IP of 4.30-4.50 ERA out of him, which by no means is sexy, but, and I'll admit the same expectations of Harvey, seems like a reasonable floor for him, one that would still be an improvement at #4-#5 in our rotation.

[Hubs]

I'd also consider Andrew Cashner as a bargain signing. Or Tanner Roark.

Cole gets less than people expect. Strasburg more.

Ryu less. Hamels More.

Bumgarner Less. Odorrozi Less. Wheeler More.

[Inside Pitch]

33 minutes ago, totdprods said:

it's cherry-picking a bit, sure, but, it's also a pretty reasonable split to consider. Dude has been torched his whole career against teams familiar with him, in extremely hitter-friendly environs. Getting him out for a year might be enough to coax 160-180 IP of 4.30-4.50 ERA out of him, which by no means is sexy, but, and I'll admit the same expectations of Harvey, seems like a reasonable floor for him, one that would still be an improvement at #4-#5 in our rotation.

When I said I could cherry pick the numbers, I wasn't intending it as a snipe -- I'm saying it as an accurate depiction of how this would play out if I wanted to go that route.

You like him, so you see him in his best light and you view the data accordingly -- I don't particularly dislike him but anytime I see a guy who's velocity is in a steady decline I see the potential for implosion and I just don't like where the data is heading -- both of us are focusing on what we like/dislike and our views are a result of those differences.  You're not going to get me to ignore the red flags I might see anymore than I will be able to convince you those red flags are real and that the numbers you are looking at are a mirage.  We similarly disagreed about Matt Boyd, we likely still do there.   

For me it's less about Bundy and more about the Angels situation and resources..    I was in favor of taking risks last year on guys that weren't sure things, pitchers that would have charitably described as "volatile" in the kindest of lights -- Bucholtz, Ross, Moore.  Moore actually looked great then blew out his arm.  Both Ross and Bucholtz regressed from what looked to be bounce back seasons in 2018..   I don't think the Angels should be looking at guys that you have to squint to find positives for (my view).

The Angels situation requires them to be looking to add to the front of the rotation, that doesn't mean they only need to focus on brand names, and anyone that has read me for any amount of time knows I don't really go that route.   There are values to be had, I'd rather focus on the ones that wouldn't require the Angels giving up players to get them.    
 

[totdprods]

3 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

When I said I could cherry pick the numbers, I wasn't intending it a snipe -- I'm saying it as an accurate depiction of how this would play out if I wanted to go that route.

You like him, so you see him in his best light and you view the data accordingly -- I don't particularly dislike him but anytime I see a guy who's velocity is in a steady decline I see the potential for implosion and I just don't like where the data is heading -- both of us are focusing on what we like/dislike and our views are a result of those differences.  You're not going to get me to ignore the red flags I might see anymore than I will be able to convince you those red flags are real and that the numbers you are looking at are a mirage.  We similarly disagreed about Matt Boyd, we likely still do there.   

For me it's less about Bundy and more about the Angels situation and resources..    I was in favor of taking risks last year on guys that weren't sure things, pitchers that would have charitably described as "volatile" in the kindest of lights -- Bucholtz, Ross, Moore.  Moore actually looked great then blew out his arm.  Both Ross and Bucholtz regressed from what looked to be bounce back seasons in 2018..   I don't think the Angels should be looking at guys that you have to squint to find positives for (my view).

The Angels situation requires them to be looking to add to the front of the rotation, that doesn't mean they only need to focus on brand names, and anyone that has read me for any amount of time knows I don't really go that route.   There are values to be had, I'd rather focus on the ones that wouldn't require the Angels giving up players to get them.    

Who in your eyes would be reasonable for the theoretical third arm the Angels need to require this winter, assuming they're essentially out of money for that arm (less than $10m AAV), and won't part with top prospects, say, no one that costs a Marsh, Thaiss, Rengifo, Sandoval or such. That's sort of where I zeroed in on Bundy. The third arm. The guy that doesn't really cost us anything, the guy we get after we've secure the front of the rotation. I'm not convinced the Angels need to get that arm this winter - it may be better for them to wait until July and see how things are going - but I think most would agree that acquiring three SPs this winter is a pretty likely outcome, even if the third is someone fringey.

It's funny you mention Moore - I actually hope he's on their radar this winter, though I believe he destroyed his knee, not his arm. He looked great in two starts for Detroit. Drew Smyly also had a nice rebound with Philly. Kyle Gibson probably gets a better offer, but he has a few metrics working in his favor if his price tag drops. Pineda might wind up a bargain depending on how teams react to his suspension. Wacha and Wood could also fall into that tier. Ivan Nova doesn't check a lot of Eppler boxes, but he's been dependable if boring, but a steady, cheap presence helping hold down #5 that brings weak contact and ground balls could do well here.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, totdprods said:

Who in your eyes would be reasonable for the theoretical third arm the Angels need to require this winter, assuming they're essentially out of money for that arm (less than $10m AAV), and won't part with top prospects, say, no one that costs a Marsh, Thaiss, Rengifo, Sandoval or such. That's sort of where I zeroed in on Bundy. The third arm. The guy that doesn't really cost us anything, the guy we get after we've secure the front of the rotation. I'm not convinced the Angels need to get that arm this winter - it may be better for them to wait until July and see how things are going - but I think most would agree that acquiring three SPs this winter is a pretty likely outcome, even if the third is someone fringey.

It's funny you mention Moore - I actually hope he's on their radar this winter, though I believe he destroyed his knee, not his arm. He looked great in two starts for Detroit. Drew Smyly also had a nice rebound with Philly. Kyle Gibson probably gets a better offer, but he has a few metrics working in his favor if his price tag drops. Pineda might wind up a bargain depending on how teams react to his suspension. Wacha and Wood could also fall into that tier. Ivan Nova doesn't check a lot of Eppler boxes, but he's been dependable if boring, but a steady, cheap presence helping hold down #5 that brings weak contact and ground balls could do well here.

It was definitely his knee (Moore).

Are you asking for trade targets?   Because I'd much prefer to just throw money at things.  I think Pineda has a very good shot at being a value sign because of his suspension.  Anyone who signs him is basically forfeiting a month of the season and that may drive his price down -- ultimately I think the teams most likely to look at him will look beyond that so -- it may all be for naught.     

As I have said in a few posts -- I think this is Arte's offseason.  

[Angel Oracle]

If Cole proves to be too much money, and the Halos prefer to add 3 pitchers, would signing Wheeler and Hamels help the rotation enough while Canning, Sandoval, Barria, and Suarez get more seasoning?    And leave enough money to sign Grandal? 

For sure, they need at least two solid starters to put less pressure on Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, etc.

Since Grandal's pitch framing skill is actually solid, and of course the hitting is there, I've come around to him being a potential important Halos signing.

Would Cole, Hamels, and Grandal be payroll fitting?      Hope that by 2022, Ohtani, Heaney, Canning, and Sandoval are all ready to join Cole in a solid 5 man rotation with Barria and Suarez on deck? 

[totdprods]

18 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

It was definitely his knee (Moore).

Are you asking for trade targets?   Because I'd much prefer to just throw money at things.  I think Pineda has a very good shot at being a value sign because of his suspension.  Anyone who signs him is basically forfeiting a month of the season and that may drive his price down -- ultimately I think the teams most likely to look at him will look beyond that so -- it may all be for naught.     

As I have said in a few posts -- I think this is Arte's offseason.  

Either or - trade or free agency. And I agree it's Arte's offseason, I think that will be what secures our top two arms. It's that third piece that has my curiosity because there are so many ways it can go. I like Pineda a lot as well.

I waffle on where the third arm is sourced...the Angels presumably will be tight on money, so even a cheaper commit like Nova, Gibson, Pineda, Smyly might be reasonable, but similarly priced players in arbitration or another Dillon Peters could also be brought in. And we will still need to spend some money likely on a catcher, maybe a bench bat, maybe a mid-reliever. I'd hope for something a lot more bankable than Dillon Peters, but targeting a cheap AAA SP prospect with control is a total Eppler buy. And I still think, and this really depends on who arms #1 and #2 are and how good/expensive they are, Eppler, if he's truly feeling some fire, could still pull the trigger for a major third arm.

And as mentioned in the Bundy proposal, there's some added benefit in the Angels finding a trade partner to help clear up some of the 40-man/positional player logjam we could find ourselves in. It isn't dire right now, but we're at a point where legit talent will be protected every winter for the next few seasons. This winter, we do have a glut of IFs on the 40-man with more to add (likely Jones, maybe Rojas) and a glut of AAA/#6 SPs we both need for depth, and could have a surplus on, depending on who we sign. Next winter, the OF will be logjammed with Adell, Marsh, Hermosillo all having been added, and the SP depth will also see the addition of likely Yan, Soriano, and hopefully Rodriguez. 

I'm not saying we have to trade prospects - the 40-man is definitely not a bottleneck yet - but we are at a point where it's worth considering who can be dealt instead of protected, or what surplus can be packaged for a clear-cut need. We should add Jahmai Jones this winter, but we have La Stella, Cozart, Fletcher, Rengifo, and Wong, and technically Cowart (easy DFA though) all ahead of him on the 2B chart. Even with two of those hitting FA at end of 2020, it's excessive. Hermosillo and Lund should be expendable within a year. Walsh, Rojas, Ward...it's great to have that depth, but at some point again, it becomes excessive. We don't need to move those guys now, but we're not far away from being in a position where these guys will start getting cut/DFA'ed/out-of-optioned. Not to mention, it limits our ability to claim and Rule 5 draft others too, and considering how strong Eppler's track record is at finding guys on waivers and minor trades (Pena, Goodwin, La Stella, Ramirez, Bridwell, Peters, Smith) there's benefit in keeping the 40 as flexible as we can.

If by some miracle you can get a good piece of the puzzle in return for a trio of Ward, Walsh, Hermosillo, Suarez, Anderson, Peters, Jones, Rojas and free up some 40-man room to add a fringe guy like De Horta or Ortega, or to get one extra shot at claiming the next Goodwin or open space for the next Pena/La Stella, it's an addition there as well.

Edited October 18, 2019 by totdprods

[Inside Pitch]

Well, not sure how to say this more clearly..  I think trades should be a last resort -- I'd sooner trade prospects for prospects than seek out a trade for established back end starters..   As such, I'd rather wait for until after the non-tenders are out and we have a full view of everyone readily available.   

A guy I can't make heads or tails of is Michael Wacha  -- dude posted a career best 48% ground ball rate while at the same time seeing his HR rate nearly double.  There is all kinds of noise associated with him in the numbers that I struggle to full understand and I don't know if he's ever healthy anymore - he's another guy that has seen his velocity fluctuate.  Is he someone that would see his performance improve just by having MLB switch the balls back -- maybe.    is Alex Wood healthy?  Kyle Gibson was looking like a potential decent move and then he fell off a cliff the second half of the year.

Edit:  About those non-tenders -- not sure why I keep seeing it, but there is talk the Braves might move off from Julio Teheran just because they may need the money at other spots and still have a ton of SP prospects to turn to.  

[Angelsjunky]

I don't think the Angels need a third arm. Ohtani is the third arm.

Two free agents, Ohtani, Heaney, and Canning are your primary starters.

Sandoval, Barria, Pena, Peters, and Suarez are your first layer of depth - guys that probably all will get starts, maybe one or two gettin 10-15+.

Beasley, Castillo, Madero, J Rodriguez, Wantz, plus several relievers (Bard, N Ramirez, Cole) are your second layer of depth - guys that won't get starts, unless the fit really hits the shan.

I could see Eppler adding to that second layer with a few clean peanuts to stash in AAA. But I don't see more than two major league starters being added.

[Inside Pitch]

1 minute ago, Angelsjunky said:

I don't think the Angels need a third arm. Ohtani is the third arm.

Two free agents, Ohtani, Heaney, and Canning are your primary starters.

Yep ...  Focus on the front end...  

[Angelsjunky]

4 minutes ago, Inside Pitch said:

Yep ...  Focus on the front end...  

That's what she sa...

Never mind.

Seriously, though, yeah - focus on the front end, and add a bit of depth through clean peanuts. But we've already got some solid "middle" pieces - that is, mid-rotation #3-4 starters, and fill-in #5-6 types. The Angels need an ace, a solid innings eater, and some guys who can fill in if they get hit by injuries. They don't need more mid-to-late rotation types like Bundy, who will cost more than they're worth. Bundy would have been an alternative to Cahill/Harvey types, and I think we're past that point.

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 10/17/2019 at 10:39 AM, Taylor said:

dochalo is smarter than most GMs.

 

On 10/17/2019 at 10:42 AM, Dochalo said:

thanks, but that's not even remotely true.  

I think he meant smarter than weve had in the last decade.

[Angel Oracle]

5 hours ago, True Grich said:

Nothing?

Screw you guys!

@Lou did I do it right?

I thought he was King Kong Bundy's son.

[VariousCrap]

On 10/17/2019 at 12:57 PM, Angel Oracle said:

This, with Hamels being the third addition for two years, and bringing back Machete is what I want to see.    Then for the next two seasons, the starters are Cole, Wheeler, Hamels, Ohtani, Heaney, and Canning.   Which allows Sandoval, Suarez, and Barria extra development in the minors.   

Sign Wheeler and Hamels first, and then it's not so much pressure on signing Cole.    Hopefully, Cole likes the ides of returning home and playing for a solid manager who has led two different teams to the WS. 

Grandal's so-so work behind the plate concerns me some.   The hitting is certainly there. 

 

I would love to see the Angels sign Cole, Wheeler, Hamels and Machete.  That would turn this team into serious competitors in 2020.

If they went with Grandal, I wouldn't complain though.

[VariousCrap]

On 10/17/2019 at 9:55 AM, Second Base said:

A potential 5 win pitcher with upper echelon velocity and low miles? Yeah, he's going to have plenty of potential suitirs. My guess is he gets 5/105.

I just don't see it.  Especially with the recent decline in huge contracts last off-season.  Either way, I want him for the Angels.

[DCAngelsFan]

Even if Strasburg opts out, I'd push hard for Wheeler - with Cole and Strasburg both Boras players, we can't put all of our eggs in the Boras basket - he'll want to string it out - can't let the market pass us by while we wait.  

Make an early run at all 3, but I'd see us making a strong push to sign Wheeler quickly, then Cole.  

Of course, can hope Cole wants to play for the Angels, and will settle quickly on a contract.