Angels in on Moose

[Stradling]

I don’t hate the idea and for one year I really like the idea, but if it’s 2-3 years and it’s over $10 million a season I see very little value there.  I also think Cozart will get on base at a higher clip this season.  What it comes down to is I don’t want any financial reason to not bring in an Ace next year.  If we sign him then we spent over $40 million to fill holes this year.  Next year a few of the holes (catcher, a starter or two, possibly a closer) will still exist and we really need a top of the rotation arm to pair with Ohtani. 

[totdprods]

19 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I don’t hate the idea and for one year I really like the idea, but if it’s 2-3 years and it’s over $10 million a season I see very little value there.  I also think Cozart will get on base at a higher clip this season.  What it comes down to is I don’t want any financial reason to not bring in an Ace next year.  If we sign him then we spent over $40 million to fill holes this year.  Next year a few of the holes (catcher, a starter or two, possibly a closer) will still exist and we really need a top of the rotation arm to pair with Ohtani. 

2/$18m would be about as high as I’d possibly consider. What I’m hoping is happening is that Moose is looking around and thinking “not this shit again” and is wanting to get to a camp and sees the hometown Angels as an option, and is willing to replicate his last-minute reunion 1/$6m deal with KC. That’d be a no-brainer, and I think Arte and Eppler would acknowledge that, but Moose’s camp might also be trying to get two years still and that’s the hold-up.

[DMVol]

10 minutes ago, totdprods said:

2/$18m would be about as high as I’d possibly consider. What I’m hoping is happening is that Moose is looking around and thinking “not this shit again” and is wanting to get to a camp and sees the hometown Angels as an option, and is willing to replicate his last-minute reunion 1/$6m deal with KC. That’d be a no-brainer, and I think Arte and Eppler would acknowledge that, but Moose’s camp might also be trying to get two years still and that’s the hold-up.

I doubt he is that desperate, though Boras hasn't done much for him, for sure....in fairness, he probably does need to wait until Machado signs....the 3b market changes once that happens...

[Stradling]

I agree that there is no reason for him to sign until Machado signs.  I actually would think the only way he signs before is if he is coming home, so either us or possibly the Padres or if he gets a nice contract offer from the Brewers, but you’d think they would have made that offer by now.  

[totdprods]

23 minutes ago, DMVol said:

I doubt he is that desperate, though Boras hasn't done much for him, for sure....in fairness, he probably does need to wait until Machado signs....the 3b market changes once that happens...

All possible, but ST has started and there’s still no sign a Manny signing is imminent. It makes all the sense in the world for him to wait and see how that plays out, but we also can’t rule out that he might just want to play ball, and what @Stradling said sums it up nicely. If he just wants to go somewhere comfortable and quickly to get his season going, the Brewers, Royals, Padres, and Angels might be the winner depending on who offers the best offer in coming days. 

He’s banked $25m to date - not that big payday contract yet, but still a decent career, and with the way FA is playing out, he may be thinking less about that big contract and more about going where he wants to go. The Angels tend to ‘take care of their own’ too. They wanted Upton, and were quick to sign him. Calhoun and Cozart wound up being a bit of an overpay. Boras’ Harvey got an ‘overpay’ early in the offseason from the Angels. I can see the Angels being opportunistic here.

I still think this could be Moose/Boras trying to woo the Angels more too, rather than the Angels pursuing, so in that case it may just come down to whether Moose goes low enough for Eppler to feel its worth it. 

Edited February 16, 2019 by totdprods

[floplag]

10 hours ago, Dochalo said:

when was the last time we were able to bar injury?  If they're ready, they'll start their clock.  They'll definitely manage their service time but we'll see the entire crew I mentioned and maybe a few others.  

There's a fine line from saving a player for later and letting them get valuable major league experience.  

We have the 5th highest payroll.  I am fine with the effort they've made for this year.  I'd also be fine if they signed Moustakas or Gio for less than 8 or so mil for the year.  But it certainly wouldn't disappoint me if they didn't.  

Doc, you cant say things like "when was the last time we were able to bar injury", and while saying you think this team has a shot at the playoffs if it stays healthy.  You know one is dependent on the other.  I think at this point i could say the grass is green and youd argue shades.    
 

[Second Base]

I still think Moose signs with the Padres. They have a need, haven't spent any money and would do well to delay Tatis' arrival time until he's truly ready. The Angels already stretched to sign Cody Allen. They have a set limit on payroll, and coming to Arte twice in one season to extend the payroll 15 million over where they expected it to be would only be feasible if it meant the playoffs. Eppler chose Cozart over Moose once, and I think he's sticking with that decision.

But the infield configurations would be fun. Moose at 3B, Cozart at 2B, Bour at 1B and Ohtani at DH would be the default. But later in the season if the prospects developed, I could see Ward at 3B, Rengifo at 2B and Moose at 1B. Or Moose back at 3B and Thaiss forcing his way to 1B.

 

[Stradling]

19 minutes ago, floplag said:

Doc, you cant say things like "when was the last time we were able to bar injury", and while saying you think this team has a shot at the playoffs if it stays healthy.  You know one is dependent on the other.  I think at this point i could say the grass is green and youd argue shades.    
 

In his defense grass has different shades of green. 

[Jay]

16 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

I don’t envision Trout signing a extension this off season. I think making the playoffs this season would be a big boost to the team and Trout signing a multi year extension. 

 

I've been reading weird stuff about a potential baseball strike:

Adam Wainwright: MLB Players Will '100 Percent' Go on Strike, Barring Change

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2821046-adam-wainwright-mlb-players-will-100-percent-go-on-strike-barring-change

Seems like the current environment is not optimal for a player to try to sign a multi-year deal. Maybe Trout is an exception but if he's waiting for Machado and Harper to set the baseline, he might be better off waiting another year.

[Inside Pitch]

2 minutes ago, Jay said:

I've been reading weird stuff about a potential baseball strike:

Adam Wainwright: MLB Players Will '100 Percent' Go on Strike, Barring Change

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2821046-adam-wainwright-mlb-players-will-100-percent-go-on-strike-barring-change

Seems like the current environment is not optimal for a player to try to sign a multi-year deal. Maybe Trout is an exception but if he's waiting for Machado and Harper to set the baseline, he might be better off waiting another year.

I agree he's the exception and I think Trout knows he's going to be the best paid position player in MLB whenever he signs...  

Given how things have gone this season, I don't think we see the new max go too far above the 34 mil he is already making.    The Angels won't have to "stretch" all that far to give him a raise..   Only thing left to do is actually go out and perform.  Another year of injuries and under-performance from guys they are counting on like Calhoun would be less than ideal.

[DMVol]

31 minutes ago, Second Base said:

....Eppler chose Cozart over Moose once, and I think he's sticking with that decision.

Don’t think it necessarily played out like that....I have no inside info, just speculating, but I think Eppler wanted Cozart and Moose, to fix 2b and 3b....when Cozart agreed to his deal, he thought he was going to play 2b....Eppler then reversed course, when the Kinsler deal was on the table, and asked Cozart if he’d play 3b....I wonder if Boras slow played Eppler on Moose and Eppler decided to go with Kinsler....I know the Angels have denied making an offer to Moose but I still wonder if it played out something like that...just a guess....

[totdprods]

9 minutes ago, DMVol said:

Don’t think it necessarily played out like that....I have no inside info, just speculating, but I think Eppler wanted Cozart and Moose, to fix 2b and 3b....when Cozart agreed to his deal, he thought he was going to play 2b....Eppler then reversed course, when the Kinsler deal was on the table, and asked Cozart if he’d play 3b....I wonder if Boras slow played Eppler on Moose and Eppler decided to go with Kinsler....I know the Angels have denied making an offer to Moose but I still wonder if it played out something like that...just a guess....

I think that is a completely viable possibility. Moose made too much sense but his asking price was too high for too long and Eppler had no problem turning to alternatives.

[AngelsLakersFan]

On 2/15/2019 at 6:45 PM, Dochalo said:

I'm kinda on the fence.  It wouldn't be horrible to grab him but in the end I think I'm more interested in watching the trio you mentioned.  

Right now we are penciling in Cozart and Fletcher as generally full time second and third basemen, with LaStella as the backup, getting a lot of time all over the infield.

Last year:

Fletcher .275 / .316 / .363

Cozart .219 / .296 / .362

LaStella .266 / .340 / .331 in 192 PAs

Our fall back options likely to get significant playing time in the event of injury are Rengifo, a guy who has had one good minor league season and never played a game in MLB, and Taylor Ward who had all but played himself out of prospect status until his resurgent 2018 that culminated in him hitting a weak .178 / .245 / .333 at the major league level.

Yes, these are a lot of intriguing options but no one I'm willing to bet on, and we are gona need more than 2 full time MLB seasons out of this group.

Moustakas' .251 / .315 / .459 isn't something that gets me excited but it does represent nearly an extra base per game in the slugging department.

 

[Troll Daddy]

There really isn’t many reasons why Moose shouldn’t get a 3-4 year contract. The Brewers and Phillies are also in the mix. 

I’m guessing that Eppler is interested in a multi year deal. 

[Stradling]

Just now, Troll Daddy said:

There really isn’t many reasons why Moose shouldn’t get a 3-4 year contract. The Brewers and Phillies are also in the mix. 

I’m guessing that Eppler is interested in a multi year deal. 

I’ll buy a used car from you if he gets a fully guaranteed 4 year deal.   

[Troll Daddy]

7 minutes ago, Stradling said:

I’ll buy a used car from you if he gets a fully guaranteed 4 year deal.   

I’ll buy a double double, fries, and a coke if he signs for less than 3 years. 

[Stradling]

17 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

I’ll buy a double double, fries, and a coke if he signs for less than 3 years. 

You will get the much better deal. 

[Second Base]

6 hours ago, DMVol said:

Don’t think it necessarily played out like that....I have no inside info, just speculating, but I think Eppler wanted Cozart and Moose, to fix 2b and 3b....when Cozart agreed to his deal, he thought he was going to play 2b....Eppler then reversed course, when the Kinsler deal was on the table, and asked Cozart if he’d play 3b....I wonder if Boras slow played Eppler on Moose and Eppler decided to go with Kinsler....I know the Angels have denied making an offer to Moose but I still wonder if it played out something like that...just a guess....

It isn't frequent that a post is so good that it changes my mind. This was so good, it changed my mind. I do believe the Angels were interested in Moustakas, but the asking price and qualifying offer were more expensive than Cozart-Kinsler because there was no draft pick attached, Kinsler cost very little in prospects, was only a one year rental and he improved the defense up the middle. But, I've wanted Moose for two years now, though I do realize he's both exactly what the Angels need, yet also not what they need. 

He's a fit because he'll be on a 1-2 year deal and would solve 3B until Ward, Fletcher or Rengifo are ready to take over. He's a fit because the offense is more average than anything and this would add some serious firepower to the middle of the lineup, and thus, deepen it. He's a fit because he's left handed and the Angels have a righty-heavy lineup. He's a fit because he makes a statement to Trout that this team is ready to begin winning right now, and not just in 2020 and beyond. And finally, he's a fit because he's a good clubhouse player and is local. 

But he also doesn't fit because the Angels already have a 3B they spent money on in Cozart, they have La Stella and have prospects that are knocking on the door that need to log major league at bats. He doesn't fit because the Angels have enough hitters to drive Trout in, what they need are men on base in front of Trout. And finally, he doesn't fit because the team appears to be at or beyond their comfortable payroll limit. 

So if the Angels did sign Moustakas, the reasons he fits would have to outweigh the reasons that he doesn't fit, by a greater value than whatever his contract will be, which is likely around 10 million give or take 3 million. Personally, I think the Padres probably provide the best match for Moose. They have no incumbent 3B really, and their prospects will be arriving mid or late this year and they'll be ready to compete in 2021, if he signs for two years, which he probably should. He'd reunite with his close friend Eric Hosmer, and if he really wants to come home and play, San Diego is a reasonably close drive. 

So I'm willing to bet that the Angels have probably reached out to Moose, thinking a 1/5 deal might entice him, but ultimately, I see him going to San Diego for 2/16 once Machado signs with the White Sox or Yankees and Harper signs with the Giants or Phillies. 

[Troll Daddy]

@Second Base Why on God’s green earth would Eppler think he could sign Moustakas for 1yr/$5M

 

[Stradling]

Just now, Troll Daddy said:

Why on God’s green earth would Eppler think he could sign Moustakas for 1yr/$5M

 

Because he got $6 million last year and he’s unsigned a week from the start of spring training games.   It’s worth the question.  If he’s offended, fuck him.  He’s not getting a big money one year deal or a long term lower salary deal.  

[WeatherWonk]

21 hours ago, hangin n wangin said:

I’m really impressed by either Troll Daddy’s  stupidity or trolling ability.....it’s one of those two but I’m just going to sit down and watch.

Well, it's certainly the latter, at least.

Look how effective he reels in two AW regulars ALL THE TIME!

Though, I'm not sure how impressive that really is................

[Lou]

[Troll Daddy]

Rumor is that Eppler offered Moose a 3yr/$45M deal last year. Boras denies it. 

[Blarg]

I think that was last season and just about everyone denies it.

[DMVol]

21 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

....Boras denies it. 

I don’t know what happened but I don’t think Boras would admit he did a really crappy job for his client.....and he did....bigly.....