Why not Gio Gonzalez?

[Second Base]

Spending money in free agency has proven to be an unwise decision more often than not, so if you can, it's best to just avoid  it altogether by building from within and making trades.  But Eppler believes the Angels pitching staff needs innings (I think they need cost-controlled upside more), and I think the most cost-effective, dependable starter on the market is Gio Gonzalez.  

Not the top of the rotation starter he was in his mid and late 20's, but he's still just 32 years old and his ERA is never bad.  

On top of which, he'd had some piss poor defenses playing behind him (excellent bats to back him though), and still managed to pitch pretty well.  Put him in front of the likes of Simmons and Trout and he might surprise you.  He won't cost a draft pick, and won't require a lengthy contract. 

Sounds like a prime target to me.  What do you suppose it'll cost? 

[wopphil]

Another solid option if the price is right, IMO.

[UndertheHalo]

He’s fine.  There’s going to be a bunch of guys who would fit in ok for the Angels.  

[Angel Oracle]

He does consistently give a team innings (only once under 31 starts since 2010).    ERA has varied a lot (bad, good, bad) over the past 3 seasons though.

He does refrain from giving up HRs, but control is spotty too often.    The Halos already have two lefties in the rotation, and two more in the minors not far from being ready. 

Still, if on a cheap enough deal, not a bad signing.   I'd only go 2 years max with a 3rd team option year, since he has pitched 1,843 career MLB innings. 

[Dtwncbad]

4 hours ago, Scotty@AW said:

Spending money in free agency has proven to be an unwise decision more often than not, so if you can, it's best to just avoid  it altogether by building from within and making trades.  But Eppler believes the Angels pitching staff needs innings (I think they need cost-controlled upside more), and I think the most cost-effective, dependable starter on the market is Gio Gonzalez.  

Not the top of the rotation starter he was in his mid and late 20's, but he's still just 32 years old and his ERA is never bad.  

On top of which, he'd had some piss poor defenses playing behind him (excellent bats to back him though), and still managed to pitch pretty well.  Put him in front of the likes of Simmons and Trout and he might surprise you.  He won't cost a draft pick, and won't require a lengthy contract. 

Sounds like a prime target to me.  What do you suppose it'll cost? 

Maybe but this is another one of those moves that helps but arguably doesn't solve.

The Angels need somebody at or near the top of the rotation.

If pursuing Gio means pursuing a better starter is off the board, then I dont want to pursue Gonzalez.

[m0nkey]

He's the most frustrating pitcher I've ever seen pitch.  From an entertainment standpoint, hard pass.

[Tyler]

On the decline, no thanks.

[Docwaukee]

based on Eppler's comments of wanting pitchers that are more 'durable' he's an obvious target.  But he's got a ton of mileage and is already 33.  If it's a two year deal of 1+1 then I guess I'd be ok with it.  But I can't say I'd be particularly excited.  

[eligrba4ever]

Did he stub his toe last night against the Dodgers? Fragile, no?

[Docwaukee]

5 minutes ago, eligrba4ever said:

Did he stub his toe last night against the Dodgers? Fragile, no?

he's avg'd 187ip for the last 9 years.  

[Jeff Fletcher]

I would expect him to be one of the most likely candidates they'll pursue. I think if they get him he'd be just part of the solution. I would think he'd be one of 2 starters acquired.

[hangin n wangin]

Gio Gonzalez is very unappealing to me. I know he has had a solid career so far and he's a pretty good pitcher, but it only goes down from here at age 33. I can see him being one of those annoying pitchers to watch, kind of like CJ Wilson. But it's slim picking out there and he would eat innings at a level much higher than Joe Blanton. 

I know we all want a top of the rotation starter, but that is going to cost an arm and a leg and I don't know how realistic it is. But hey, it's obviously not a necessity, considering the Brewers are doing what they are doing with freaking Gio Gonzalez, Wade Miley, and Chacin rounding out the rotation.

[Second Base]

15 minutes ago, hangin n wangin said:

Gio Gonzalez is very unappealing to me. I know he has had a solid career so far and he's a pretty good pitcher, but it only goes down from here at age 33. I can see him being one of those annoying pitchers to watch, kind of like CJ Wilson. But it's slim picking out there and he would eat innings at a level much higher than Joe Blanton. 

I know we all want a top of the rotation starter, but that is going to cost an arm and a leg and I don't know how realistic it is. But hey, it's obviously not a necessity, considering the Brewers are doing what they are doing with freaking Gio Gonzalez, Wade Miley, and Chacin rounding out the rotation.

Virtually every successful team this season has had a rock-star offense.  The Yanks, Sox, Indians, Rockies, Brewers....

[tdawg87]

I don't think we're getting a legit "frontline" starter unless we're willing to part ways with Adell, Marsh AND Canning. And even then, who is available? deGrom maybe?

I think that's why we'll see Eppler go after a couple number 3 type guys and hope to get the most out of them.

[Angel Oracle]

Hangin said it best.    Gonzalez is too much like Nibs with the spotty command, although he does have durability over Nibs.

[floplag]

30 mil budget, 2 starters basically kills that with maybe enough left for a 4th OF and a ham sammich.  
This means we better be looking at some fairly serious trades to boost the offense or we go into 19 with the same lineup we ended 18 with Cozart in for Ward.

[tdawg87]

6 minutes ago, Angel Oracle said:

Hangin said it best.    Gonzalez is too much like Nibs with the spotty command, although he does have durability over Nibs.

Certainly frustrating to watch, but if the results are there who cares?

[Tank]

he rolled over his ankle last night, so i fully expect he'll need TJ surgery next year if he signs with the halos. if he signs elsewhere, cy young.

[Mark68]

He hurt his ankle last night, so as soon as the Angels sign him, it's leg-below-the-knee amputation time. 

[Docwaukee]

If I am looking at who we could be next year and which playoff team from this year most closely approximates that I would certainly eliminate the dogs, astros, indians, red sox, yankees, and rockies and also likely the Braves in that they all had very good to great starting pitching.  Well beyond anything I think we're capable of accomplishing this off season.   

I think the Brewers and A's are probably the closest.  

So how do we get there?  

 

 

[tdawg87]

2 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

If I am looking at who we could be next year and which playoff team from this year most closely approximates that I would certainly eliminate the dogs, astros, indians, red sox, yankees, and rockies and also likely the Braves in that they all had very good to great starting pitching.  Well beyond anything I think we're capable of accomplishing this off season.   

I think the Brewers and A's are probably the closest.  

So how do we get there?  

 

 

Luck, significantly improved pitching, and marginally improved hitting. 

Also THE  FUCKIN BULLPEN GOOD lord

[Second Base]

1 hour ago, Dochalo said:

If I am looking at who we could be next year and which playoff team from this year most closely approximates that I would certainly eliminate the dogs, astros, indians, red sox, yankees, and rockies and also likely the Braves in that they all had very good to great starting pitching.  Well beyond anything I think we're capable of accomplishing this off season.   

I think the Brewers and A's are probably the closest.  

So how do we get there?  

 

 

The A's had a much better offense than expected, and while their rotation was adequate (at best), their bullpen really did some amazing things.  And the Brewers.....that team can flat out rake and their bullpen can shorten some games. 

And while I feel Eppler is a very smart, intuitive executive, he just has not been able to build any sort of offense.  Trout, Ohtani, Upton and Simmons is a start, but it's not an offense. It's mediocrity.  They need help, they need to be deeper.

I just don't have a lot of confidence in Eppler's ability to bring in offensively capable players the same way he's able to unearth quality pitchers.  

The bullpen and the rotation ultimately don't concern me.  I mean with Felix Pena's emergence, Ty Buttrey, Alex Meyer and J.C. Ramirez returning from injury and able to handle a couple innings, and Eppler's previous experience finding guys in unexpected places, the bullpen will eventually be a strength.  

And the rotation, I don't think many on this board realize just how good Griffin Canning is going to be.  He's legitimately going to profile in the middle or front of the rotation, and with Skaggs finding his potential before injury, and the long term outlook of Ohtani, and complimentary guys like Barria, Suarez and Sandoval, and the sheer upside of Soriano, Chris Rodriguez and Aaron Hernandez, I think long term, this pitching staff is going to be amazing.  Do we need a couple arms to bridge the gap?  Probably. But I'm not worried. 

But offensively, especially if Trout doesn't stay long term, it's going to be tough.  Thaiss will eventually be a league average 1B, and whoever we have at 2B should be good.  Simmons is steady at SS and should remain so for quite a while.  We hope Ward or Maitan or even Jeremiah Jackson can be the long term answer at 3B but there's a lot of uncertainty there.  The outfield....well we have so many prospects that they'll be a good unit for a long time.  

But we have to get offense somewhere, both in the short term and long term.

We'll either need to develop it, get lucky and find it out of nowhere, or we're going to need to buy it or trade for it. 

[Rally Gorilla]

IMHO, a 33 year old with 1,800 IP is not what the Angels need now.   It's going to be hard to complete for the division in 2019, so I'd rather see the Angels bring in some younger FA's for the rotation that have a better chance of helping us in 2020 and beyond.   

[tdawg87]

5 minutes ago, Rally Gorilla said:

IMHO, a 33 year old with 1,800 IP is not what the Angels need now.   It's going to be hard to complete for the division in 2019, so I'd rather see the Angels bring in some younger FA's for the rotation that have a better chance of helping us in 2020 and beyond.   

Like whom?

Keuchel is 31 and will cost a draft pick.

Corbin will be 30 in July and will also cost a draft pick.

Given the choice I'd rather have Corbin, but when it comes to free agency, you aren't going to get a lot younger. Plus, guys like Corbin and Keuchel will get 5 years. Gio might get 2 or 3.

I actually agree that a guy like Gio isn't the solution but the only real solutions involve trades in which we completely decimate our farm system. 

Perhaps the answer lies with signing a guy like Gio and trading for a younger pitcher who won't cost our top prospects. But that's going to be tough to find.

[Rally Gorilla]

39 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Like whom?

 

I agree that the selection of youngish FA's is pretty limited.   Corbin would be my first choice, even considering the draft pick.

PLAYER (33)	POS.	AGE	TEAM	H	RBI	HR	AVG	OPS	IP	ERA	W	SV	2018 SALARY	MARKET VALUE (AAV)
Drew Hutchison	SP	28	TEX	1			.250	.650	42.7	6.75	2		$545,000	-
Nathan Eovaldi	SP	29	BOS	1	1		.111	.311	111	3.81	7		$2,000,000	-
Drew Pomeranz	SP	30	BOS						74	6.08	2		$8,500,000	-
Patrick Corbin	SP	30	ARI	12	5		.197	.435	200	3.15	11		$7,500,000	-
Matt Harvey	SP	30	CIN	4	1		.075	.184	155	4.94	7		$5,625,000	-
Nick Tepesch	SP	30	DET										$572,300	-
Dallas Keuchel	SP	31	HOU						204.7	3.74	12		$13,200,000	$20,642,779
Garrett Richards	SP	31	LAA						76.3	3.66	5		$7,300,000	-
Brett Anderson	SP	31	OAK	1			.250	.500	80.3	4.48	4		$4,000,000	-
Trevor Cahill	SP	31	OAK						110	3.76	7		$1,500,000	-
Chris Tillman	SP	31	TEX						26.7	1.46	1		$545,000	-
Source:  Spotrac														-