I like our rotation

[Angelsjunky]

Yes, everyone is a question mark in some way, but there is a lot of talent there  and it could be very good, even without Darvish. Let's take a look:

TIER ONE: Richards, Ohtani - These guys are both #1-2 type starters. Not on the Sale/Kershaw/Kluber/Scherzer level, but in the next tier down (and we don't know how good Ohtani will be). The downside is that we probably won't get more than 300-350 innings from these two.

TIER TWO: Heaney, Skaggs, Shoemaker - These are all guys that have shown the ability to be mid-rotation starters, and even glimpses of #2 at times, but also bouts of #4. But overall, mid-rotation. Meyer would be here too, if he wasn't injured.

TIER THREE: Bridwell, Ramirez, Tropeano - These are the "dregs" - but all solid back-end starters, #4-5s.

MINOR LEAGUE DEPTH - Barria, Scribner - With Nate Smith injured and Grayson Long traded, the number of players who could potentially start in the big leagues in 2018 has slimmed down. Jaime may have mid-rotation upside, but probably needs at least half a year of seasoning. Scribner is, at best, a #5. Vicente Campos? Brooks Pounders? Not sure if these guys will be back.

So there's a lot to work there. I'd love to see Yu Darvish added to Tier One, which would give the Angels a great six-man rotation, although in that case one of Tier Two would likely be packaged for Cesar Hernandez. The gap between Darvish and Tier Two isn't so huge that it is worth an extra $20 million a year, but if you add in Hernandez it may be worth it.

If the Angels are blessed with good health, this is already a very good rotation: two borderline aces, three mid-rotation guys, and 3-5 guys who can adequately be a sixth starter and/or fill-in as necessary.

[bloodbrother]

Meyer is out for all of 2018. Assuming the Halos don't sign another SP, I think we see them incorporate a 6-man rotation, especially with pretty much everybody in the rotation being guys coming off surgery or other injury scares

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

Now that we have Ohtani, I would love to sign Darvish. I don't think his WS run is indicative of who he really is.

Darvish
Richards
Ohtani
Heany or Skaggs
Shoemaker

God....if I just hope Richards can stay healthy

[Ohtani&Trout]

I'd like to see the Angels sign Darvish  and trade a SP (Skaggs?) for Hernandez.

Ohtani-Darvish-Richards would be a fearsome trio that no team would want to face.

Make it happen, Eppler.

[Make Angels Great Again]

Richards is going to dominate next season.

sub 3 ERA and approach 200 innings.

Calling it now.

[Chimi]

I just don’t trust that elbow of Richards.

[JustATroutFan]

Big "if" but obviously if Otani and Richards can both stay healthy and live up to expectations, then you have two aces right there. I just do not know how much trust people should have in Richards since he gets hurt every year, it seems.

[Warfarin]

Yeah, honestly, my ideal offseason is to find another top tier SP and a 2B.  Hernandez and Darvish are ideal.  Trade Skaggs and some middle-tier prospects for Hernandez.  Having Darvish, Richards, and Ohtani at the top of the rotation makes us legitimate.  Hernandez is our new leadoff hitter and 2B for the next 3 years.  Those two moves make us wild card favorites for sure.

[Hubs]

Pitching was not the problem in 2017. They got a lot of great performances out of unknown guys. But the offense was the big problem. 

[Second Base]

The best thing about Shoemaker was that you could really depend on him getting through a ton of innings each year and have a couple of month long streaks where his splitter just dives and he's unhittable.  But at this point, we've had a chance to look over his career and it's clear that typically once per season, he's going to miss some time with some sort of ailment.  Also, he's had one great season, one decent season and two bad seasons.  It's anyone's guess as to how much he'll actually pitch and how effective he'll actually be. 

I also think Skaggs is having a put up or shut up season.  He's missed considerable time ever season he's worn an Angel uniform.  Yeah he's left handed and has upside.  But I think this year is his last chance he'll get in an Angels uniform to prove he can make good on any of that talent. 

Heaney really struggled with his command at the end of last season, which is a very normal occurrence following TJ surgery.  His velocity and breaking ball were fine, and he got them over the plate, but he also got too much of the plate, and his change up didn't look the same at all.  He's good, and he's going to be good for a long time, but I don't know if he'll be all the way back in early 2018 as much as he will in late 2018. 

Bridwell's performance was unrepeatable, but also enough that you have to seriously consider him for a roster spot as a swing man. 

Ramirez needs to be in the pen to protect that ligament of his. You don't want to lose a 98 mph fastball.  Put him in the pen, and help him preserve it. 

Nick Tropeano is a better pitcher than he's being given credit for.  He's a legitimate mid-rotation starter......when he's uninjured......and has settled into a routine.  Right now he's coming off surgery and doesn't have any sort of a major league routine set out for him.  He's going to need a few months before he's ready to be the same mid-3's ERA with a high K/9 pitcher. 

Jaime Barria is the real deal.  I'm just not sure there's any better way to put it.  He's going to be a steady mid or back end starter for a very long time. 

So yeah, we've got some depth.  But really, we're going to need Shoemaker and Skaggs to get through a whole season and not suck.  We need to be patient with Heaney and Tropeano and also allow Barria to pitch in the majors if he's one of the five best starters, and not keep him in AAA just because we can. 

[Ace-Of-Diamonds]

1 hour ago, Angelsjunky said:

I'd love to see Yu Darvish added to Tier One,

Please do not waste money on a ex-Texas pitcher on wrong side of his prime wanting a lot of money he earned before but wants to collect now. We have so many other needs to spend or money or trade bait for.

[Troll Daddy]

14 minutes ago, Ace-Of-Diamonds said:

Please do not waste money on a ex-Texas pitcher on wrong side of his prime wanting a lot of money he earned before but wants to collect now. We have so many other needs to spend or money or trade bait for.

Amen 

Darvish is a luxury  ... what this team needs is offense and bullpen. 

[UndertheHalo]

I think that assuming health and Ohtani being as advertised,  Angels have a chance to be the best top to bottom rotation in the AL West.  Possibly the AL. 

[Billy_Ball]

Plus, didn't Ohtani say he didn't want to be on a team with another Japanese player?

[Angels_Make_Me_Drink]

20 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Amen 

Darvish is a luxury  ... what this team needs is offense and bullpen. 

Darvish is not a luxury when you don't know if you count on the health of Richards, Skaggs, Heaney, Shoemaker, Tropeano, and the innings restriction of Ohtani...

[ten ocho recon scout]

2 hours ago, Angels_Make_Me_Drink said:

God....if I just hope Richards can stay healthy

IMO, this is the key to it all. If healthy, Garret can be a force at the front, and if Ohtani is simply very good, theres enough depth between shoe, skaggs and heaney to have a solid 3, with enough left over to trade for a need.

If Garret never returns (in a good way), were banking too much on a rookie pitcher in a new land, and I think we're still mediocre.

[ten ocho recon scout]

1 hour ago, Hubs said:

Pitching was not the problem in 2017. They got a lot of great performances out of unknown guys. But the offense was the big problem. 

Totally agree. But...like Simmons' bat, Id be cautious expecting repeats from unexpected positive performance spikes.

The good news is that we have enough pitching coming back that at least one should be ready to pick up some slack.

I think pujols has a nice reboubd left in him. Nothing all star quality, but better than last year. If we get a solid leadoff hitter, and another decent bat at 3B, pujols batting 5th (preferably 6th) can stretch out the depth of the order a bit 

[Troll Daddy]

Darvish is going on 32 yrs old and is projected to get a 6/160M deal. Darvish was 6-9 with a 4.01 ERA with Texas last season and he sucked big time in the playoffs. 

It’s easy to understand why some here want to sign him.

[Ohtani&Trout]

12 minutes ago, Troll Daddy said:

Darvish is going on 32 yrs old and is projected to get a 6/160M deal. Darvish was 6-9 with a 4.01 ERA with Texas last season and he sucked big time in the playoffs. 

It’s easy to understand why some here want to sign him.

i don't think the Angels would want him at 6/160. Nor should they.

He pitched way more like himself while he was with the Dodgers.  And Kershaw sucked often in the playoffs too. It happens even to the best of them.

His numbers were much better away from Arlington. And he really only had one terrible month (7+ ERA).

He was still one of the best pitchers in baseball.

 

 

[bloodbrother]

6 man rotation is on the table

 

[JustATroutFan]

1 hour ago, Ohtani&Trout said:

i don't think the Angels would want him at 6/160. Nor should they.

He pitched way more like himself while he was with the Dodgers.  And Kershaw sucked often in the playoffs too. It happens even to the best of them.

His numbers were much better away from Arlington. And he really only had one terrible month (7+ ERA).

He was still one of the best pitchers in baseball.

 

 

Only reason why Darvish had a 4.01 ERA for Texas last season was because of like one fluke bad outing against the Marlins, when he gave up like 10 earned runs. That one. That one bad outing skewed up his ERA. And plus, he pitched well away from that little league park in Arlington, like you already stated.

[Warfarin]

1 hour ago, Ohtani&Trout said:

i don't think the Angels would want him at 6/160. Nor should they.

He pitched way more like himself while he was with the Dodgers.  And Kershaw sucked often in the playoffs too. It happens even to the best of them.

His numbers were much better away from Arlington. And he really only had one terrible month (7+ ERA).

He was still one of the best pitchers in baseball.

 

 

No way should we go for 6 years.  If we can sign him to, say, a 5/100 deal, that could be worthwhile.  We’d be asking for about 2-3 WAR per year out of him at that rate, which isn’t necessarily outside the realm of possibility.  

I’m sure someone gives him a bigger contract than that, and if so, that’s fine.  It’s all about finding value and not overbidding.  

[GrittyVeterans]

Richards

Ohtani

Heaney

Skaggs

Bridwell

Shoemaker

 

for 6 man

 

if shoe is ass, then replace him with Barria

[ettin]

5 minutes ago, Warfarin said:

No way should we go for 6 years.  If we can sign him to, say, a 5/100 deal, that could be worthwhile.  We’d be asking for about 2-3 WAR per year out of him at that rate, which isn’t necessarily outside the realm of possibility.  

I’m sure someone gives him a bigger contract than that, and if so, that’s fine.  It’s all about finding value and not overbidding.  

When is free agency ever worthwhile?

There is less than a 1% chance he signs for anything less than $25M per season, IMHO.

[Troll Daddy]

16 hours ago, ettin said:

When is free agency ever worthwhile?

There is less than a 1% chance he signs for anything less than $25M per season, IMHO.

Agreed

Do we really want to pay Darvish $25M per season after he turns 35 yrs old? Hell, I don’t think he’s worth $25M per season now IMO.