Are we closer than we think?

[robblin17]

Mike Trout makes players around him better. It is very obvious. A team that probably should have been out of it (if you asked someone at the beginning of the season and even let them assume they would be healthy all year) but has a shot to make the playoffs at the beginning of August. You may say, "Well, Trout didn't play all those games!" Exactly my point above. It is evident Mike Trout is the best player in the game and he might end up being the best player ever. The only difference is a ton of fans just don't realize it because they don't get to watch him every single day. It's the small things Mike Trout does, too, like today when Trout hustled on a ground ball to second base and earlier in the game appeared to tell Pujols a splitter was coming on the 3-2 pitch, only to spit on the splitter, and take ball four after fouling off several pitches before that. This stuff rubs off.

On top of that, Andrelton Simmons is amazing, too, and for $13M over the next few years, we have one of the best SS's in baseball at a great rate. With good-to-great finds like Ramirez, Bridwell, Maldonaldo, Scribner, Parker, Norris, Graterol, Maybin, Revere, and Meyer, it is evident that Eppler knows what he is doing and knows way more than any of the other bozos that were running the team prior, Arte included (for which I will leave my avatar until another Angel team wins the WS because Scioscia was not the problem). Health is obviously king, but are we closer than we may think? Players are going to want to play for us and play with Trout, I just hope we gave Eppler enough time to get it done before Trout becomes a free agent. We will have the payroll especially considering we spent on Pujols, Hamilton, Matthews and more, and competitiveness might even be enough to keep Trout at that point. 

Also, one more thing, Pujols. Look at the guy. Old, worn, beat down, tired, but still cares, regardless of what you think about the guy. He cares. Pujols would not show the pride he does when he references his prior successes to account for present failures if he did not care. And the guy is embarrassed. His body has failed him in the worst possible ways. Old father-time is winning. So what better way to send the old guy off for Trout who respects Pujols more than anyone? And let's be honest, Mike Trout does amazing things. And we are the Angels. 

 

 

[bloodbrother]

[DMVol]

[wopphil]

I think the organization is in okay shape going forward. We drop a lot of salary this offseason, and have the means to add more through free agent signigs. We also seemingly have a fair amount of average quality pitching depth, which should prevent us from having to spend money on guys like Chavez and Nolasco.

What we dont have are enough quality regulars, high end starting pitching, or prospects capable of contributing. It would be nice to bring in a few reliable position players and a rotation anchor.  The focus this off-season should be (1) a great starting pitcher and (2) two quality position players to cover some combination of leftfield, third base, or second base. The farm will be improved in due time.

[DMVol]

2 hours ago, wopphil said:

....The focus this off-season should be (1) a great starting pitcher and (2) two quality position players to cover some combination of leftfield, third base, or second base. The farm will be improved in due time.

I might lean more toward the position players and hope our group of starting pitchers get healthy.....great starting pitchers are hard to come by....you're better off developing your own than signing a FA (see Price)....not that either is easy, you either need a lot of money or maybe a little luck or skill in drafting....but you can win with a solid group of starters--see 02 Angels...an ace is nice but you can win without one...

[eaterfan]

This team is also not that far away from being not so good. As bad as 1B/DH, 2B, RF and SP have been - we've gotten surprisingly good performances from LF, C, BP and SS. I'm not saying all the regression evens out. We may be a little unlucky in that aspect this year but I wouldn't expect a huge gain from returning players. I think this team is still probably 2 years away from making a real playoff run but that's not too bad. The good news is that this team will still have Trout, Simmons, and Calhoun. The farm will be in a position to finally contribute some help. 

[zenmaster]

Ah the joys of a 2 game win streak against the leagues worst team. 

 

j/k though, sort of. If we can get ALL our SPs back and add a few key pieces this offseason we could be decent next year. 

[eligrba]

Eppler has this organization moving in exactly the right direction.  Eppler inherited a disaster, left behind by the quitter, who amazingly inherited a better situation in Seattle, where he is systematically working his disastrous magic on.

I get frustrated by some things about this team but all will be forgotten when Trout is extended and made an Angel for life; young talented prospects drafted by Eppler perform at the major league level, and the Angels are back as a dominant team relying mostly on the talent developed in their farm system and only being supported by a few free agent signings.

[krAbs]

The rest of the league views us as trout, and maybe simmons, surrounded by crap. In their defense, they aren't TOTALLY wrong. But....if the Angels make the wild card, it will probably be on the back of a recently healthy rotation who comes in hot, backed by some of the best defense in baseball, partially offensively powered by cowart, cron, maybe valbuena, and maybe pujols heating up and doing damage (obviously on top of trout and simmons), and topped off with a criminally underrated bullpen.

IF we sneak into the wild card, the rest of the league won't know what hit them. It would appear as if an incredibly solid team materialized out of thin air.

[stanick88]

I agree with the premise of this post. I think if we(we as in the Angels) have a strong off-season and get two impact players and some more Epller special finds, we have a chance to compete. The reason I say this is because, how often does the best team win it all in Baseball? Not all the time. In fact, look at 2002 when we won it. We didn't have the best team. But we had the most hungry team, who played most like a team. In 2002 our best starting pitchers were Jarrod Washburn and a Rookie John Lackey. But we had a solid bullpen and a gritty hungry team who would not Quit. So I think if we can get a another impact player or two, stay healthy, get hot down the stretch, keep our nact for never giving up, as well as to continue develop our team chemistry; I think we have a shot. In fact, the same can be true for now. Never give up an opportunity. And we may have one now. Angels Never Give Up. 

[JustATroutFan]

Trout makes everyone better? Well, Pujols is benefiting from Trout, no doubt about it. His OPS for the season is under .700. MVP numbers, for sure!

[JustATroutFan]

2 hours ago, Curse of the Wonderdog said:

We're playing the Phillies.

lol.

Still got to play the game. It's not like MLB is handing the Angels w's over the Phillies without having to play them this series. I'm not an Angels fan (used to be both an Angels and Dodgers fan) but still have to give the Halos credit for not taking the Phillies for granted, even though they do have some nice players.

[Chuck]

3 hours ago, eaterfan said:

This team is also not that far away from being not so good. As bad as 1B/DH, 2B, RF and SP have been - we've gotten surprisingly good performances from LF, C, BP and SS. I'm not saying all the regression evens out. We may be a little unlucky in that aspect this year but I wouldn't expect a huge gain from returning players. I think this team is still probably 2 years away from making a real playoff run but that's not too bad. The good news is that this team will still have Trout, Simmons, and Calhoun. The farm will be in a position to finally contribute some help. 

[aznhockeyguy]

Let's look at this team as a whole shall we? All stats and references are from baseball-reference.com

All-Star Level:

Center Field: Best Player in the Game

Shortstop:  Best Glove and vastly improving bat in Simmons. 

Obviously, I don't really need to go into where the Angels' strengths are; Center Field and Shortstop.  The Angels are set at these positions for the next few seasons and have received All-Star level production from them.  Next.

 

Above Average/League Average:

Pitching:  The pitching has been pretty solid buoyed by an over performing bullpen and a stellar defense as evidenced by the difference between ERA and FIP (4.18 and 4.44) respectively.  All other peripherals have been above AL averages except for FIP.  So the pitching has been better than expected and hopefully will get boosted with the return of some of the injured starters and/or hopefully Bridwell and Meyer continue to improve and perform.

Catcher: The Angels have received the 3rd highest WAR in the AL from the position.  Maldonado and Graterol have done a very solid job behind the plate and their offense is decent enough to not be a black hole, as most teams do not rely on their catcher for much offensive production.  The Angels are pretty much set here.

The Angels are slightly above average in surprisingly with their pitching and catching.  The Angels do not need to spend too much money on improving on these areas.

 

Disasters/Way Below League Average:

First Base:  Any way you put it, first base has been an absolute disaster.  Last in WAR and OPS.  Cannot have a key position bat be so poor and that's what the Angels have here. 

Second Base: An even worse disaster thanks to Espinosa's windmill.  Dead last in WAR and OPS and it's not even close (and the Angels received a boost in this position by the hot play from Cowart).  Maybe Cowart will be the answer as the season winds down.  

Third Base: Third to last in OPS and 2nd to last in WAR in the AL.  Escobar is not hitting as he did last year and his glove has been questionable.  Not the disasters of first and second base, but pretty close.  

Left field:  2nd to last in OPS and 10th in OPS (15 teams in AL).  Though Maybin has been an improvement in LF (which shows how bad of a disaster LF was the last few seasons), it's still not enough to even be league average.  

Right field: Last in OPS and 3rd to last in WAR.  Calhoun has been a very solid glove throughout his career.  However, this year he has been a big negative with the bat.  Having been signed for two more seasons, hopefully he recovers to his production levels from the last few seasons.  

Designated Hitter:  4th to last in OPS and 2nd to last in WAR.  Pujols is in his last legs of even being a competent bat only player, and with that contract running for a few more years, I am unsure how to improve this.  Although highly unlikely, the Angels are probably better off benching him than playing him.

 

So as you can see, the offense is in a sorry state.  2 straight 7 run games aside, the Angels are last or near last in 5 places of the lineup, that's not going to get it done.  If the Angels have had any luck, it's all gone to the pitching as the budget signings and trades on that side of the ball has been pretty good, where as the signings and trades for the lineup has been a disaster.  If the Angels improve to even league average (easier said than done) in 3 spots, it will improve the offense substantially.  With the recovery of some of the starters, the Angels will hopefully maintain the pitching performance next year.  Nearly all of the focus for the offseason should go to improving the lineup.  But because of Pujols's contract and/or the Angels' willingless to release/eat the contract, he's going to be an anchor as long as he plays, and they keep putting him behind their most valuable hitter which is a cardinal sin in baseball, much like having the pitcher hitting behind him.  Although we all clamor for a big offseason signing/trade, marginal improvements in the spots I listed above can go a long way to improving the Angels' fortune for next season.

[krAbs]

17 minutes ago, aznhockeyguy said:

Let's look at this team as a whole shall we? All stats and references are from baseball-reference.com

All-Star Level:

Center Field: Best Player in the Game

Shortstop:  Best Glove and vastly improving bat in Simmons. 

Obviously, I don't really need to go into where the Angels' strengths are; Center Field and Shortstop.  The Angels are set at these positions for the next few seasons and have received All-Star level production from them.  Next.

 

Above Average/League Average:

Pitching:  The pitching has been pretty solid buoyed by an over performing bullpen and a stellar defense as evidenced by the difference between ERA and FIP (4.18 and 4.44) respectively.  All other peripherals have been above AL averages except for FIP.  So the pitching has been better than expected and hopefully will get boosted with the return of some of the injured starters and/or hopefully Bridwell and Meyer continue to improve and perform.

Catcher: The Angels have received the 3rd highest WAR in the AL from the position.  Maldonado and Graterol have done a very solid job behind the plate and their offense is decent enough to not be a black hole, as most teams do not rely on their catcher for much offensive production.  The Angels are pretty much set here.

The Angels are slightly above average in surprisingly with their pitching and catching.  The Angels do not need to spend too much money on improving on these areas.

 

Disasters/Way Below League Average:

First Base:  Any way you put it, first base has been an absolute disaster.  Last in WAR and OPS.  Cannot have a key position bat be so poor and that's what the Angels have here. 

Second Base: An even worse disaster thanks to Espinosa's windmill.  Dead last in WAR and OPS and it's not even close (and the Angels received a boost in this position by the hot play from Cowart).  Maybe Cowart will be the answer as the season winds down.  

Third Base: Third to last in OPS and 2nd to last in WAR in the AL.  Escobar is not hitting as he did last year and his glove has been questionable.  Not the disasters of first and second base, but pretty close.  

Left field:  2nd to last in OPS and 10th in OPS (15 teams in AL).  Though Maybin has been an improvement in LF (which shows how bad of a disaster LF was the last few seasons), it's still not enough to even be league average.  

Right field: Last in OPS and 3rd to last in WAR.  Calhoun has been a very solid glove throughout his career.  However, this year he has been a big negative with the bat.  Having been signed for two more seasons, hopefully he recovers to his production levels from the last few seasons.  

Designated Hitter:  4th to last in OPS and 2nd to last in WAR.  Pujols is in his last legs of even being a competent bat only player, and with that contract running for a few more years, I am unsure how to improve this.  Although highly unlikely, the Angels are probably better off benching him than playing him.

 

So as you can see, the offense is in a sorry state.  2 straight 7 run games aside, the Angels are last or near last in 5 places of the lineup, that's not going to get it done.  If the Angels have had any luck, it's all gone to the pitching as the budget signings and trades on that side of the ball has been pretty good, where as the signings and trades for the lineup has been a disaster.  If the Angels improve to even league average (easier said than done) in 3 spots, it will improve the offense substantially.  With the recovery of some of the starters, the Angels will hopefully maintain the pitching performance next year.  Nearly all of the focus for the offseason should go to improving the lineup.  But because of Pujols's contract and/or the Angels' willingless to release/eat the contract, he's going to be an anchor as long as he plays, and they keep putting him behind their most valuable hitter which is a cardinal sin in baseball, much like having the pitcher hitting behind him.  Although we all clamor for a big offseason signing/trade, marginal improvements in the spots I listed above can go a long way to improving the Angels' fortune for next season.

I agree pretty much completely with this. we have 6 main holes, 3 of which have a shot at being solved with in-house solutions (cron at first, cowart at second, calhoun at rf). dh will continue to suck. I honestly hadn't realized how bad third had been this year. If we are going to spend big money, we should spend it there. I don't really know who is available though. I REALLY hope that ramirez can continue to bring down his ERA and we can trade him off for some bats in the offseason.

In related news (seeing as 2/3rds of our of is a mess this year), Michael Hermosillo was promoted to AAA today. Wonder if they are going to take a look at him this year. Sounds like a solid defensive outfielder with some plus speed, and not much else. Normally not much to get excited about, but he could help fill the void at lf - or at least be a better 4th outfielder.

[Farmbuildingfan]

Pujols reputation and contract are the likely reason he he is not batting 8th.

I hope that Cowart and Cron will show they are for real, and that Calhoun is just having a bad year. That would leave 3rd base LF and DH as the below average groups going forward.

If the pitchers can get healthy, I would like to see Eppier trade some pitching depth for an above average 3rd baseman who is under 28 years old or a top 3rd base prospect,

[aznhockeyguy]

The problem is, the Angels bench bats aren't that strong either.  Pennington is not very strong with the bat and he's one of the first bats off the bench until Cron was brought up.  Escobar has been fine (.738 OPS, .767 OPS avg 3B for AL) with the bat, but his glove isn't very strong.  

I am not sure why the Angels even got rid of Escobar's predecessor, David Freese. Last season in PIT, Freese had a better OPS (.764 vs .745, but a lower OPS+ 104 vs 107) but with most would agree a better glove than Escobar.  This season Freese is at .756 vs Escobar's .728 (102 vs 98 OPS+) but again, Freese's glove is a lot better than Escobar's AND he's getting paid less than him too!  If I remember correctly he wanted a long contract 4 years coming off an injury plague season, but I think if the Angels waited him out, he would've resigned for 2 years, but by then I think the Angels signed Escobar at this point.  

[ten ocho recon scout]

In regards to escobar, and letting him walk this year....who bats lead off next year?

I dont say that to advocate bringing him back, just wondering how were going to replace him.

Either valbuena, cowart or some FA (moustakas) takes over 3B next year. That leaves us needing to fill 2B (maybe cowart) and LF still. Does that mean we have to target another maybin type for LF? I dont mind doing so, but i think that still leaves us short on power.

Calhoun bouncing back and cron getting his sh*t together would help this team in spades.

[California Cajun]

15 hours ago, robblin17 said:

Mike Trout makes players around him better. It is very obvious. A team that probably should have been out of it (if you asked someone at the beginning of the season and even let them assume they would be healthy all year) but has a shot to make the playoffs at the beginning of August. You may say, "Well, Trout didn't play all those games!" Exactly my point above. It is evident Mike Trout is the best player in the game and he might end up being the best player ever. The only difference is a ton of fans just don't realize it because they don't get to watch him every single day. It's the small things Mike Trout does, too, like today when Trout hustled on a ground ball to second base and earlier in the game appeared to tell Pujols a splitter was coming on the 3-2 pitch, only to spit on the splitter, and take ball four after fouling off several pitches before that. This stuff rubs off.

On top of that, Andrelton Simmons is amazing, too, and for $13M over the next few years, we have one of the best SS's in baseball at a great rate. With good-to-great finds like Ramirez, Bridwell, Maldonaldo, Scribner, Parker, Norris, Graterol, Maybin, Revere, and Meyer, it is evident that Eppler knows what he is doing and knows way more than any of the other bozos that were running the team prior, Arte included (for which I will leave my avatar until another Angel team wins the WS because Scioscia was not the problem). Health is obviously king, but are we closer than we may think? Players are going to want to play for us and play with Trout, I just hope we gave Eppler enough time to get it done before Trout becomes a free agent. We will have the payroll especially considering we spent on Pujols, Hamilton, Matthews and more, and competitiveness might even be enough to keep Trout at that point. 

Also, one more thing, Pujols. Look at the guy. Old, worn, beat down, tired, but still cares, regardless of what you think about the guy. He cares. Pujols would not show the pride he does when he references his prior successes to account for present failures if he did not care. And the guy is embarrassed. His body has failed him in the worst possible ways. Old father-time is winning. So what better way to send the old guy off for Trout who respects Pujols more than anyone? And let's be honest, Mike Trout does amazing things. And we are the Angels. 

 

 

I admit thinking about the 2002 team winning it all after finishing 42 games out of first in 2001, trading Mo Vaughn, and learning to be a running team after about a one month learning curve after the all star break.  

This 2017 team does a decent job pitching and the position players as a group have trouble providing run support.  I'd love to see if a better offensive position player acquisition could make the difference.  I also wonder if Albert's presence in the heart of the lineup makes it impossible to become a running team.

Being an Angel lifer I'm often an incurable optimist, especially during the Spring.  I lived 6.8 miles from the Big A as a kid and there is some innate reason why I always have a cap, an MLB subscription, and watch, listen, or look for scores 45 years after leaving the area.

[ScottT]

Trout is amazing, but he doesnt make anyone else better.  

He and Simmons couldve finished 1-2 in war this year. Crazy. 

A couple or three healthy starters, a key addition or two, and this team is legit.  Props to Eppler for so many cheap finds. Parker B, B. Parker, Maldanado, Hernandez, Petit.  I thought the Angels would be buried by now. Nice work. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

31 minutes ago, ScottT said:

Trout is amazing, but he doesnt make anyone else better.  

He and Simmons couldve finished 1-2 in war this year. Crazy. 

A couple or three healthy starters, a key addition or two, and this team is legit.  Props to Eppler for so many cheap finds. Parker B, B. Parker, Maldanado, Hernandez, Petit.  I thought the Angels would be buried by now. Nice work. 

Eppler has done a fantastic job so far. Painted into a corner, ut has done very well at bringing over some very key contributors.

 

[Billy_Ball]

8 hours ago, JustATroutFan said:

Still got to play the game. It's not like MLB is handing the Angels w's over the Phillies without having to play them this series. I'm not an Angels fan (used to be both an Angels and Dodgers fan) but still have to give the Halos credit for not taking the Phillies for granted, even though they do have some nice players.

And the Angels are 4-2 against the Red Sox this season.

[70runner]

Ticket to the playoffs: schedule more games with the phillies

[ten ocho recon scout]

On 8/3/2017 at 2:12 PM, aznhockeyguy said:

Let's look at this team as a whole shall we? All stats and references are from baseball-reference.com

All-Star Level:

Center Field: Best Player in the Game

Shortstop:  Best Glove and vastly improving bat in Simmons. 

Obviously, I don't really need to go into where the Angels' strengths are; Center Field and Shortstop.  The Angels are set at these positions for the next few seasons and have received All-Star level production from them.  Next.

 

Above Average/League Average:

Pitching:  The pitching has been pretty solid buoyed by an over performing bullpen and a stellar defense as evidenced by the difference between ERA and FIP (4.18 and 4.44) respectively.  All other peripherals have been above AL averages except for FIP.  So the pitching has been better than expected and hopefully will get boosted with the return of some of the injured starters and/or hopefully Bridwell and Meyer continue to improve and perform.

Catcher: The Angels have received the 3rd highest WAR in the AL from the position.  Maldonado and Graterol have done a very solid job behind the plate and their offense is decent enough to not be a black hole, as most teams do not rely on their catcher for much offensive production.  The Angels are pretty much set here.

The Angels are slightly above average in surprisingly with their pitching and catching.  The Angels do not need to spend too much money on improving on these areas.

 

Disasters/Way Below League Average:

First Base:  Any way you put it, first base has been an absolute disaster.  Last in WAR and OPS.  Cannot have a key position bat be so poor and that's what the Angels have here. 

Second Base: An even worse disaster thanks to Espinosa's windmill.  Dead last in WAR and OPS and it's not even close (and the Angels received a boost in this position by the hot play from Cowart).  Maybe Cowart will be the answer as the season winds down.  

Third Base: Third to last in OPS and 2nd to last in WAR in the AL.  Escobar is not hitting as he did last year and his glove has been questionable.  Not the disasters of first and second base, but pretty close.  

Left field:  2nd to last in OPS and 10th in OPS (15 teams in AL).  Though Maybin has been an improvement in LF (which shows how bad of a disaster LF was the last few seasons), it's still not enough to even be league average.  

Right field: Last in OPS and 3rd to last in WAR.  Calhoun has been a very solid glove throughout his career.  However, this year he has been a big negative with the bat.  Having been signed for two more seasons, hopefully he recovers to his production levels from the last few seasons.  

Designated Hitter:  4th to last in OPS and 2nd to last in WAR.  Pujols is in his last legs of even being a competent bat only player, and with that contract running for a few more years, I am unsure how to improve this.  Although highly unlikely, the Angels are probably better off benching him than playing him.

 

So as you can see, the offense is in a sorry state.  2 straight 7 run games aside, the Angels are last or near last in 5 places of the lineup, that's not going to get it done.  If the Angels have had any luck, it's all gone to the pitching as the budget signings and trades on that side of the ball has been pretty good, where as the signings and trades for the lineup has been a disaster.  If the Angels improve to even league average (easier said than done) in 3 spots, it will improve the offense substantially.  With the recovery of some of the starters, the Angels will hopefully maintain the pitching performance next year.  Nearly all of the focus for the offseason should go to improving the lineup.  But because of Pujols's contract and/or the Angels' willingless to release/eat the contract, he's going to be an anchor as long as he plays, and they keep putting him behind their most valuable hitter which is a cardinal sin in baseball, much like having the pitcher hitting behind him.  Although we all clamor for a big offseason signing/trade, marginal improvements in the spots I listed above can go a long way to improving the Angels' fortune for next season.

Well said. This needs to be put alongside the pujols sucks thread. He absolutely does suck. But hes only part of the problem. 

[Puget Sound Angel]

With that contract, I would HOPE Pujols still cares.