Buyers or sellers?

[ettin]

1 hour ago, JarsOfClay said:

Bud Norris could be valuable to a team like the Nats, Maybin could fetch a pretty good return as well.

I honestly would trade Simmons if it could give us 3-4 good prospects in return.  His value has never been higher and I think the angels are at least 5 years away from contending again, and trading Simmons could help lower that number.

5 years!?!?!?!? If that is true they should sell everything and do a full rebuild.

 

But they won't because they will be competing again next year.

[Troll Daddy]

6 minutes ago, ettin said:

5 years!?!?!?!? If that is true they should sell everything and do a full rebuild.

 

But they won't because they will be competing again next year.

I thought we're competing this year. I heard the Angels traded for a guy named Mike Trout for a PTBNL ... that should give the team a big boost. 

[ettin]

1 minute ago, Troll Daddy said:

I thought we're competing this year. I heard the Angels traded for a guy named Mike Trout for a PTBNL ... that should give the team a big boost. 

We still can but the Angels need to start winning or Eppler is going to sell hard.

[Docwaukee]

3gb of the 2nd WC and 2 games below .500.  

 

[tdawg87]

Just now, Dochalo said:

3gb of the 2nd WC and 2 games below .500.  

 

Will probably be at least 4gb and 3 games below .500 by the break. The FO will probably say that's too close to sell but, yeah. 

[Angelsjunky]

I always feel a bit sheepish around this time of year, because I end up wanting the team to lose so they'll trade away excess parts for prospects, and/or get a better draft pick.

But yeah, I'll say it: I hope the Angels go through a horrific patch over the next few weeks so we can see some trades made that will help in 2018 and beyond.

[Docwaukee]

The Angels aren't 5 years away.  Either Epple and his team's skill at scouting and player development is going to work in the next 2-3 years or it's not.  If it doesn't, we're longer than 5 years. away.  

[Ohtaniland]

2 minutes ago, tdawg87 said:

Will probably be at least 4gb and 3 games below .500 by the break. The FO will probably say that's too close to sell but, yeah. 

Do teams actually have to audacity to have champagne celebrations when they clinch the second wild card spot? 

[tdawg87]

6 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

Do teams actually have to audacity to have champagne celebrations when they clinch the second wild card spot? 

I don't even know what that has to do with anything, but do they actually celebrate that? 

[Ohtaniland]

On 7/7/2017 at 11:40 PM, tdawg87 said:

I don't even know what that has to do with anything, but do they actually celebrate that? 

Like don't they have to play the next day and usually on the road. That's got to be the crappiest game to qualify for. 

[Docwaukee]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

I always feel a bit sheepish around this time of year, because I end up wanting the team to lose so they'll trade away excess parts for prospects, and/or get a better draft pick.

But yeah, I'll say it: I hope the Angels go through a horrific patch over the next few weeks so we can see some trades made that will help in 2018 and beyond.

Hard to wish that they'd lose, but it sure seems like there's very little shot of them making a legit run at the WC so they may as well get it over with so we can get something for our expiring contracts.  

[Angelsjunky]

14 minutes ago, Dochalo said:

Hard to wish that they'd lose, but it sure seems like there's very little shot of them making a legit run at the WC so they may as well get it over with so we can get something for our expiring contracts.  

Well, my first choice is always that they remain competitive and win, but as you say the chances are dwindling slowly and I'd rather go really good or really bad for the next few weeks, than just luke warm.

[Ohtaniland]

9 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

We have nothing to sell ... so you BUY

 

[Stradling]

7 hours ago, tdawg87 said:

I don't even know what that has to do with anything, but do they actually celebrate that? 

It has nothing to do with that.  

[eligrba]

9 hours ago, Troll Daddy said:

We have nothing to sell ... so you BUY

Buy what with what?  Another veteran who can be a consistent .170 hitter in the middle of order to protect Pujols?

 

[Stradling]

So here is what I would do assuming this is where we are at in a couple of weeks.  I would listen to offers on everyone not named Mike Trout.  The only way I trade Kole or Simmons is they get their replacement plus one or two other useful pieces back in return.  So in other words if you trade Simmons you would need to get an everyday short stop that is young and has 3 WAR upside and 4+ years of club control, and you would need to get another player that could be a starter (next year) in left field, 3rd base or 2nd base, plus another plus side prospect.  If you trade Kole you need to fill two holes, the one he is vacating and either left field, 2nd base or 3rd base.  All of those players would need to have 4-5 years of club control.  

I would actually try to trade Revere, everyone in the bullpen (Bedrosian would have to be a no brained type of offer), Escobar, Espinosa, Valbuena, Cron.  I would listen on any starter.  

I would only trade Maybin if someone offers a younger everyday outfielder.  If I am not offered that in return, then I hold onto him and try to work on an extension.

All of this being said, if you aren't getting major league ready talent (or high upside prospects that can be everyday players soon) back for our everyday guys, it really doesn't make sense to trade them.  

If Bud Norris can get us someone's top 15 prospect then trade him.  Same goes for Petit.  If you can trade Nolasco, and eat some of his contract to bring back anything useful, then do it, same goes for Chavez.  

My reluctance to trade is based solely on the likely return and the fact we have no one in the minors ready to step into any of these positions, minus Cowart who could play 2nd or 3rd.  

What is the point of trading them if you aren't getting anything back in return, when you don't have someone ready, or an actual future major leaguer that just needs his reps?  I don't care if Arte can save some money this season trading some of these guys, because most of the guys they would trade aren't on the payroll after this season.  So trading them benefits no one except for Arte, and the fans who want the team to be awful.  

[Ohtaniland]

On 7/8/2017 at 7:01 AM, Stradling said:

So here is what I would do assuming this is where we are at in a couple of weeks.  I would listen to offers on everyone not named Mike Trout.  The only way I trade Kole or Simmons is they get their replacement plus one or two other useful pieces back in return.  So in other words if you trade Simmons you would need to get an everyday short stop that is young and has 3 WAR upside and 4+ years of club control, and you would need to get another player that could be a starter (next year) in left field, 3rd base or 2nd base, plus another plus side prospect.  If you trade Kole you need to fill two holes, the one he is vacating and either left field, 2nd base or 3rd base.  All of those players would need to have 4-5 years of club control.  

I would actually try to trade Revere, everyone in the bullpen (Bedrosian would have to be a no brained type of offer), Escobar, Espinosa, Valbuena, Cron.  I would listen on any starter.  

I would only trade Maybin if someone offers a younger everyday outfielder.  If I am not offered that in return, then I hold onto him and try to work on an extension.

All of this being said, if you aren't getting major league ready talent (or high upside prospects that can be everyday players soon) back for our everyday guys, it really doesn't make sense to trade them.  

If Bud Norris can get us someone's top 15 prospect then trade him.  Same goes for Petit.  If you can trade Nolasco, and eat some of his contract to bring back anything useful, then do it, same goes for Chavez.  

My reluctance to trade is based solely on the likely return and the fact we have no one in the minors ready to step into any of these positions, minus Cowart who could play 2nd or 3rd.  

What is the point of trading them if you aren't getting anything back in return, when you don't have someone ready, or an actual future major leaguer that just needs his reps?  I don't care if Arte can save some money this season trading some of these guys, because most of the guys they would trade aren't on the payroll after this season.  So trading them benefits no one except for Arte, and the fans who want the team to be awful.  

You're asking pretty much every GM in baseball to lend a helping hand to the Angels. That's not going to happen. We are who we are as a result of Arte's wasteful overspending and his relying on Mike Trout to win it all for us. Fixing this mess is going to require a true housecleaning and about 5 years of rebuilding. That includes the farm, cutting Albert and at some point may even require them to move Mike Trout for a boatload. 

This current team is not 2-3 scrapyard veterans away from contending. They need a true youth movement through trades and good drafts. We've already burned numerous opportunities to build a team around Trout but our focus has now turned into milestones. 

 

[Farmbuildingfan]

9 hours ago, Angelsjunky said:

I always feel a bit sheepish around this time of year, because I end up wanting the team to lose so they'll trade away excess parts for prospects, and/or get a better draft pick.

But yeah, I'll say it: I hope the Angels go through a horrific patch over the next few weeks so we can see some trades made that will help in 2018 and beyond.

I doubt Moreno will approve any trade for multiple prospects in return for Simmons.

Eppier probably knows that if he looks beyond next year and possibly sacrifices the present, he could be fired.

I would trade Valbuena and eat some of his contract, and replace him with a platoon of Cron and Marte,  and/or trade Espinoza or Escobar and replace him with Cowart.

These trades will not bring top ML prospects, but they could get you three or four lower prospects that could pan out later.

If not, you have sacrificed little in terms of the future.

[Stradling]

25 minutes ago, CALZONE said:

You're asking pretty much every GM in baseball to lend a helping hand to the Angels. That's not going to happen. We are who we as a result of Arte's wasteful overspending and his relying on Mike Trout to win it all for us. Fixing this mess is going to require a true housecleaning and about 5 years of rebuilding. That includes the farm, cutting Albert and at some point may even require them to move Mike Trout for a boatload. 

This current team is not 2-3 scrapyard veterans away from contending. They need a true youth movement through trades and good drafts. We've already burned numerous opportunities to build a team around Trout but our focus has now turned into milestones. 

 

So then we don't trade our players away.  I am not asking for a helping hand, I am asking them to pay the price for our good players.  If our players aren't valuable to them, they won't try to trade for them to begin with.  Simmons has a ton of value.  He is having a great year offensively and is one of the best if not the best defensive short stop in the league.  He is also under contract for 2 more years after this one, so they would be trading for 2+ years of a great short stop.  Same with Calhoun, he is under contract for 3 more years and is in his prime.  So if you want him you pay the price for him.  It isn't a helping hand, it is a piece to that teams playoff run, for a piece of their future.  It simply increases their chances now, for someone who hasn't hit their prime yet going to the Angels.  

Clod, you paint with a very broad brush, as always.  Sure the Angels aren't in a great place right now, but that does not devalue our tradable assets.  The Angels don't have to trade these guys.  Also I am not asking every GM in baseball to lend a helping hand.  I am asking the team that needs bullpen help to increase their chances to go further in the playoffs to give us a good prospect for that bullpen arm.  I am asking a GM that needs a 3rd baseman that can hit a bit to give us a future major league player for Escobar.  If that isn't possible, then don't trade him, because what is the point.  If this season is truly lost, then it really doesn't matter.  IF we can't get useful pieces back, then there is no reason to trade them.  We aren't tied to these players past this year.  So if they aren't part of the rebuild process because they don't have a value to move them for the next wave of starters, simply start over after the season, because they won't be here after that.  

As far as your ridiculous milestone crap.  That is how you see it, but that is you being you.  Albert is here, but he certainly isn't the reason this team is failing.  The reason this team hasnt' been good is because we have no minor league system.  Well Eppler is in the process of righting that ship.  He can do that with or without Albert.  There is a difference between marketing and what the actual focus of the team is.  The team can rebuild with Albert as part of the team.  The truth is the team doesn't have an improvement in house right now to replace him.  Keep crying over spilt milk, you are good at it.  

[Stradling]

13 minutes ago, Farmbuildingfan said:

I doubt Moreno will approve any trade for multiple prospects in return for Simmons.

Eppier probably knows that if he looks beyond next year and possibly sacrifices the present, he could be fired.

I would trade Valbuena and eat some of his contract, and replace him with a platoon of Cron and Marte,  and/or trade Espinoza or Escobar and replace him with Cowart.

These trades will not bring top ML prospects, but they could get you three or four lower prospects that could pan out later.

If not, you have sacrificed little in terms of the future.

Jeez, you are basically Claude when you talk about Moreno.  

[Farmbuildingfan]

4 minutes ago, Stradling said:

Jeez, you are basically Claude when you talk about Moreno.  

Your'e right to some  extent, but Moreno's ill advised acquisitions indicate he has a "win now" mentality and would rather showcase than build, .

 

Has he changed? Too soon to tell

He has little to trade for top prospects even if he wanted to, so if he has changed, we wouldn't know.

 Simmons is too young to trade for prospects, unless they are ML ready within a year . .

 .

 

[Angel Oracle]

The next two off-seasons will definitely tell us if Moreno isn't afraid to spend, while being smarter about it.

Pujols becomes the only bad contract in the org.  Well, outside of Baldoquin's $8 million (+$8 million penalty paid by the team) anyway

[Homebrewer]

Other than Simmons, sell (or give away, I don't care and it doesn't matter) the rest of the IF and bench, and bring Cron and Cowart and a couple others (Fletch maybe) up for the second half and play them every day. Give them both 200 ABs and see what you have. Clean out the dead wood and play for next year.

Bring in witch doctors for the pitching staff, and pray over Richards and Shoe and Heaney (I think Skaggs is done, but he would be worth sacrificing a few chickens over, to see if his baseball soul can be saved)

The main effort should be removing the dead branches form the infield tree, and patching the diseased and rotten parts of the bench.