Trout is better than Griffey Jr.

[troutisbetterthansalmon]

yeah i went there

 

 

 

http://www.armchairallamericans.com/mike-trout-better-than-ken-griffey-jr/

[troutisbetterthansalmon]

My opinion, if Trout is being compared to guys like Mantle, and has two seasons of 10+ WAR (has only happened 50 times since 1870), Trout is far beyond Griffey.

My M's friends care to disagree however...

[Puget Sound Angel]

Way to early to compare Trout to prime Griffey

[Second Base]

Yes, Trout is better that Ken Griffey Jr. was.  The numbers can't truly be compared though, mostly because Griffey played during the steroid era when parks were smaller and balls seemed the fly further.  I think on the whole, WAR actually comes in handy here. During his prime, Giraffe was a 7-9 win player typically.  Now we don't know what Trout will be in his prime, but to begin his career, Trout is an 8-10 win player, considerably better than Griffey at the same stage, but also better than Griffey in his prime.  If Trout's career follows a bell shaped curve as most ball players do, chances are he'll be 9-12 win ball player in his prime.  But even if he doesn't and he sits around 8 wins per year, he's still likely better than Griffey.

So yes, I believe Trout is better than Junior, but I also believe that if it weren't for injury, Griffey may have been the best ever.  I think if Trout stays healthy, he can reasonably bet the best to ever play the game by the time he's 35. 

[Inside Pitch]

Mike Trout's career OPS+ is 168.  KGJ had one full season in his entire career where he was as good or better than Mike Trout's career average.  

1 hour ago, Puget Sound Angel said:

Way to early to compare Trout to prime Griffey

But we can compare Mike Trout to KGJ age 19-24...  Pretty easy call on that one.

[CaliAngel]

Well, duh.

[Angels#1Fan]

It's way too early to be comparing Trout to players that have finished their careers and this constant running out of WAR to make a point is getting old. WAR isn't the only barometer of a players greatness, it's just one stat, and that one stat isn't the end all of be all. People use WAR like it's the gospel and the final word to any argument about what player is better. 

I think Trout is a great player, maybe the best in the game today, but his career is unfinished as of this moment. Trouts numbers pale in comparison to Juniors and Mantle's etc. because he hasn't completed his career. A lot of things can happen along the way just look at Prince Fielder. ymmv

[Angelsjunky]

I'll go on record and predict that Trout will never have a WAR of 12, nor a WAR of 11 - maybe another 10 WAR season or two, but I think he's stabilizing in the ~9 WAR range.

Anyhow, not only has Trout had a much better first five years, but here are how their best seasons rank according to WAR (with 2016 extrapolated):

1. 2013 Trout 10.5

2. 2012 Trout 10.3

3. 1996 Griffey 9.7

4. 2016 Trout 9.2

5t. 1997 Griffey 9.0

5t. 2015 Trout 9.0

7. 1993 Griffey 8.4

8. 2014 Trout 8.0

Griffey's next best year is 6.9, so I think it is safe to assume that Trout will have many more season better than that.

So already prime-so-far Trout has been better than prime Griffey. As I see it, with Trout there are two big questions:

1. Will he get better, or is what we've seen what we get.

2. How will Trout age after turning 30.

A couple thoughts about both.

1. I would like to think that Trout can still improve, but my sense is that he's not going to get substantially better. We might see his hitting improve slightly, but I think mostly we're going to see 9ish WAR production. Nothing wrong with that, but if you're expecting a bit bell curve you're likely to be disappointed.

2. Too soon to tell. This is why Griffey is not among the very best but in the next group down. There's no reason to predict that Trout's production will collapse at 30-31 like Griffey's did, but you just never know. Fingers crossed.

[kevinb]

Can we please wait on this type of stuff till you know he's retired or gets to the age of  35 or something. 

[ten ocho recon scout]

3 hours ago, ScottyA_MWAH said:

Yes, Trout is better that Ken Griffey Jr. was.  The numbers can't truly be compared though, mostly because Griffey played during the steroid era when parks were smaller and balls seemed the fly further.  I think on the whole, WAR actually comes in handy here. During his prime, Giraffe was a 7-9 win player typically.  Now we don't know what Trout will be in his prime, but to begin his career, Trout is an 8-10 win player, considerably better than Griffey at the same stage, but also better than Griffey in his prime.  If Trout's career follows a bell shaped curve as most ball players do, chances are he'll be 9-12 win ball player in his prime.  But even if he doesn't and he sits around 8 wins per year, he's still likely better than Griffey.

So yes, I believe Trout is better than Junior, but I also believe that if it weren't for injury, Griffey may have been the best ever.  I think if Trout stays healthy, he can reasonably bet the best to ever play the game by the time he's 35. 

As the obvious worst fat thumbs misp3l73r here, i approve of calling jr "giraffe" from this point forward

[ten ocho recon scout]

Heres another problem. Griffeys WAR is hurt by his era...and we'll never know if he juiced. He was never caught, never accused...that doesnt mean anything though. It really doesnt...(and im not accusing him).

So assuming he was clean the whole time, regardless of what advanced stats say, id say trout still has a way to go before he catches giraffes prime years. Again, assuming jr was clean, has trout had a 97, 98 run like griffey did? Keeping in mind his WAR is hurt by the amount of dudes juicing who hit 40 or so like it was nothing in those years

 

 

[John Stellman]

4 hours ago, troutisbetterthansalmon said:

yeah i went there

 

 

 

http://www.armchairallamericans.com/mike-trout-better-than-ken-griffey-jr/

By the time Trout is finished, nobody will even remember Griffey Jr.

[ten ocho recon scout]

4 minutes ago, John Stellman said:

By the time Trout is finished, nobody will even remember Griffey Jr.

 

I dont even think Jr remembers himself anymore...

 

[ten ocho recon scout]

His acting was pretty legit too. Trout seems like hes forcing it in his subway commercials.

[CaliAngel]

lol what the hell why even do an interview with the guy if that's how he's gonna act?

[ten ocho recon scout]

12 hours ago, CaliAngel said:

lol what the hell why even do an interview with the guy if that's how he's gonna act?

Yeah, came off like a prick. And does anyone else think theres some bias in there?...i love cutch, but jr giving cutch the nod over trout?...to be fair, maybe as a guy from the Cinc area, maybe he watched cutch a lot more 

[Adam]

Trout is in his prime

[Puget Sound Angel]

Griffey made it into the Hall based on the first ten years of his career, not the injury marred final ten years. Who knows what's in store for Trout over the next fifteen years. That's why I say it is too early to compare.

[Angelsjunky]

That's the worst sports interview I've ever seen. What a lump.

 

[Angelsjunky]

Top major league outfielders through age 24 by fWAR:

1. Ty Cobb 47.2

2. Mike Trout 45.0

3. Mickey Mantle 41.1

4. Mel Ott 38.6

5. Ted Williams 36.4

6. Ken Griffey 35.0

So through Trout's current season, they were both among the very best ever, but Trout is a good bit ahead. Through age 30, Griffey is still #7, right between Hank Aaron and Ted Williams. But career-wise, he drops to #18.

I think it is safe to say that Griffey is one of the 20 greatest outfielders ever, but not one of the ten greatest. Clearly Ruth, Bonds, Williams, Mays, Mantle, Aaron, Musial, Cobb, and Speaker were better -- the top 9. Then you get a bunch of guys like Robinson, Yaz, Henderson, DiMaggio, Kaline, Clemente, and Rose who either had shorter careers then the nine best, or long but less stellar careers. Griffey had a lower career fWAR than all of those guys, but was as good in his prime as all but probably DiMaggio.

Trout has a good chance of making the inner circle an even ten, but he could still slip into the next group. A lot can happen.

[Inside Pitch]

12 hours ago, CaliAngel said:

lol what the hell why even do an interview with the guy if that's how he's gonna act?

That's pretty much how he always acted..   For all the talk about how he was so happy and effervescent while Barry was a lout -- Griffey had his fair share of prickish responses to the press..   The difference was the press in Seattle went about coddling Griffey..  and Arod..  and Ichiro...   "You gotta love these guys"....   Actual M's motto one year...   

[Ender]

4 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

That's pretty much how he always acted..   For all the talk about how he was so happy and effervescent while Barry was a lout -- Griffey had his fair share of prickish responses to the press..   The difference was the press in Seattle went about coddling Griffey..  and Arod..  and Ichiro...   "You gotta love these guys"....   Actual M's motto one year...   

That was the motto in 1996 ..... after the awesome 1995 run, before A-Rod became A-Roid who wasn't even a thing until 96 .... what is wrong with it??? And it's a slogan ... made up by a business / marketing department. Who cares??

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/blogs/2014/03/11/griffey-junior-linda-cohn-interview/6285841/

(Reasons that interview seemed shitty)

And yes ... as of now Trout is better than Griffey .... but who knows what the future holds? Does not mean Griffey wasn't great in his own right.

[Inside Pitch]

55 minutes ago, Ender said:

That was the motto in 1996 ..... after the awesome 1995 run, before A-Rod became A-Roid who wasn't even a thing until 96 .... what is wrong with it??? And it's a slogan ... made up by a business / marketing department. Who cares??

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/blogs/2014/03/11/griffey-junior-linda-cohn-interview/6285841/

(Reasons that interview seemed shitty)

And yes ... as of now Trout is better than Griffey .... but who knows what the future holds? Does not mean Griffey wasn't great in his own right.

So it was in fact a motto used up there -- Grats..  I appreciate you confirming it.  I do hope will be able to get over my vicious attack on.... nobody.    

BTW... at no point have I said Griffey wasn't a great player.. your white knighting while expected (as always), is really pointless .  So whatever the voices are telling you, they are in your head.   And since you ask... Who cares?   You do..  You're ALWAYS crying about some imaginary slight or another....  

In the meantime have you given this message board a look?  http://sewing.patternreview.com/cgi-bin/sewingclasses/board.pl   Seems like a good "safe place".  I doubt you'll find anything M's related that can "trigger" you.

Enjoy!

 

[Ender]

5 hours ago, Inside Pitch said:

So it was in fact a motto used up there -- Grats..  I appreciate you confirming it.  I do hope will be able to get over my vicious attack on.... nobody.    

BTW... at no point have I said Griffey wasn't a great player.. your white knighting while expected (as always), is really pointless .  So whatever the voices are telling you, they are in your head.   And since you ask... Who cares?   You do..  You're ALWAYS crying about some imaginary slight or another....  

In the meantime have you given this message board a look?  http://sewing.patternreview.com/cgi-bin/sewingclasses/board.pl   Seems like a good "safe place".  I doubt you'll find anything M's related that can "trigger" you.

Enjoy!

 

Yes you only bashed the Seattle media for "coddling" its players ... as almost all local media does with its STARS, how DARE they coddle those superstars! Called Griffey a prick though I'm sure you're unbiased in saying that based off a stupid ESPN interview. Poking fun at a motto referring to how the fans should love their own players. 

And me saying Griffey was a great player is in reference to the thread ... as this thread title seems to imply that since Trout is better that Griffey was some slouch. I agreed Trout is better than Griffey at these respective points in their careers?

[Stradling]

Trout is better than Jay Buhner.