Step away from that shiny new toy

[AngelArcher]

I've seen lots of threads suggesting the Angels go all in on Cespedes, Heyward, Davis, Price, etc...

 

All of these players will have payroll crippling salary, will want long contracts, and in some cases cost a draft pick. I've been the type that wanted these kind of signings in the past(hot stove champs!!!!!), but with the current team I don't find it wise to go this direction. Yes, of course if they were one bat away, but there will still be holes throughout the lineup and IMO filling it in with 3 next tier type players is wiser.

 

I think the best guy in that next tier is Zobrist. Him along with Span to leadoff, and bring back Freese if he's cost effective or even Uribe. Also Jaso as a bench bat and DH platoon. Sign a reliever or trade Hector for one plus a position player prospect. Trade Hector even if they do sign a FA reliever for a prospect or two. This is just one combination of many that they can go after and it's just to give an idea of what I'd like Eppler to do.

 

Hope that at least two of Wilson, Shoe, or Weave can rebound with Tropeano and Skaggs waiting in the wings ready to go.

Edited October 22, 2015 by AngelArcher

[marcosantinia12]

Read my mind, 100% agree.

I think the problem is that most people want to make a paper-stacked team. Fact is we need to fill holes which include adding the table setters that this team lacks. Cespedes sounds sexy, and it will surely make the team better, but how much better?

I think that we would get similar overall team production by adding role players (in example a speedy, high onbase outfielder) *cough* Denard Span *cough*. Not that a player like Span provides the same production as Cespedes or even close to it, but similar production for the team overall, although much cheaper and lesser commitment.

Same goes for every other position.

Great post.

Edited October 22, 2015 by marcosantinia12

[zenmaster]

I also think Zobrist is going to go for way more than what he's worth. I can see his production dropping soon and it wasn't that great to start with.

[Puget Sound Angel]

Have we learned nothing from Hamilton and Pujols?

[AngelArcher]

I also think Zobrist is going to go for way more than what he's worth. I can see his production dropping soon and it wasn't that great to start with.

 

I think Zobrist can be had for 3/27-33 with a 4th year option. Any more than that, then the team needs to find value elsewhere.

[tdawg87]

I also think Zobrist is going to go for way more than what he's worth. I can see his production dropping soon and it wasn't that great to start with.

 

*sigh*

 

His 120 OPS+ would have been second on the team this year.

[Ohtaniland]

I think Zobrist can be had for 3/27-33 with a 4th year option. Any more than that, then the team needs to find value elsewhere.

Zobrist is 34 years old. Please Arte don't overpay for another old guy.

[AngelArcher]

He'll still be younger at the end of 3 years than Pujols is right now.

 

Anyways, the point is these are the players the team should be targeting. You can get more of them and be less committed in years. Doesn't necessarily have to be Zobrist.

[tdawg87]

Zobrist is 34 years old. Please Arte don't overpay for another old guy.

 

This is one of the most common misconceptions on angelswin. This team really isn't that old. The average age for the Angels this year was 28.4. Younger than Pittsburgh, Kansas City, Toronto, St. Louis, The Cubs, and the Dodgers. I shouldn't have to explain what those teams all have in common.

 

Zobrist is a good player who would help the team out at several positions. His age is meaningless since he's going to get a short term deal anyway.

[Brent Maguire]

I think Zobrist can be had for 3/27-33 with a 4th year option. Any more than that, then the team needs to find value elsewhere.

There's no chance a player of Zobrist's caliber will sign for that cheap. The guy will easily get 15 mil/year pretty easily. 

 

My guess is someone gives him 4/70+an option year. 

[Docwaukee]

Zobrist makes this team better in so many ways.  We got poor production from LF and 2b in 2015.  We've lost our 3bman and we are going to lose our SS after 2016 (possibly).   Zobrist plays every one of those positions and has a solid bat.  He's gonna get a max of 4 years and probably 3.  He's better than anything we have at any of those positions and will be in 3 years when we still don't have anyone to call up to play any one of them.  

 

If we could somehow add 3 Ben Zobrists to this team, we would win 95 games next year.  

[AngelArcher]

There's no chance a player of Zobrist's caliber will sign for that cheap. The guy will easily get 15 mil/year pretty easily. 

 

My guess is someone gives him 4/70+an option year.

I think his age and that he's seen more as a complimentary player will keep him from getting 15per easily. We'll see though.

[gurn67]

This team needs to fill a few holes with shorter contract low risk options than Arte's break the bank for a big splash theory. Love the idea of Jaso as the starting DH against RHP. Career .368 OBP against RHP and a guy who has absolutely mashed at the Big A.

[Angelsjunky]

I like Zobrist quite a bit. He's been a consistent 5-6 fWAR player for four of the last five years, although with 2015 being the exception mainly due to steep drop in defense. Not sure if that is legit or an anomaly. But he hit better in 2015 than he did in 2013 or 2014, just in fewer games.

 

Still, at his age I think you have to expect some decline. I suspect he'll bounce back in 2016, but probably more to a 4 fWAR level. Let's say he gets a four year contract. I think you can expect something like 4, 3.5, 3, 2 - or something like 12-13 fWAR over four years.

 

As for an outfielder, I don't think Heyward is going anywhere and I'd stay away from Cespedes and Upton. That leaves Span and Alex Gordon, either of whom would be a nice fit for the Angels although I'd take Gordon first, but he'll also be more expensive and its hard to imagine him leaving the World Series bound Royals.

 

Still, imagine Span or Gordon and Zobrist batting ahead of Trout.

 

Zobrist

Span/Gordon

Trout

Calhoun

Pujols

Cron

Aybar

Perez/Bandy

Cowart/Kubitza

 

All of a sudden that lineup looks legit.

[Angel Oracle]

Zobrist is 34 years old. Please Arte don't overpay for another old guy.

I totally get where you are coming from Claude.

No more longggg contracts for 30+ and declining former stars!

Zobrist has maintained a solid OBP, which we desperately need. He plays 2B and LF, both spots of need. He's been on contending teams since the late 2000s. And as long as they could sign him for just 3 years plus a team option, he would definitely fill a need in general without getting crazy money.

Edited October 22, 2015 by Angel Oracle

[Angelsjunky]

Dave Cameron of Fangraphs predicted 4/$70MM for Zobrist. Sounds accurate.

[AngelsFanSince86]

I've seen lots of threads suggesting the Angels go all in on Cespedes, Heyward, Davis, Price, etc...

 

All of these players will have payroll crippling salary, will want long contracts, and in some cases cost a draft pick. I've been the type that wanted these kind of signings in the past(hot stove champs!!!!!), but with the current team I don't find it wise to go this direction. Yes, of course if they were one bat away, but there will still be holes throughout the lineup and IMO filling it in with 3 next tier type players is wiser.

 

I think the best guy in that next tier is Zobrist. Him along with Span to leadoff, and bring back Freese if he's cost effective or even Uribe. Also Jaso as a bench bat and DH platoon. Sign a reliever or trade Hector for one plus a position player prospect. Trade Hector even if they do sign a FA reliever for a prospect or two. This is just one combination of many that they can go after and it's just to give an idea of what I'd like Eppler to do.

 

Hope that at least two of Wilson, Shoe, or Weave can rebound with Tropeano and Skaggs waiting in the wings ready to go.

 

Why can't they get a guy like Heyward or Cespedes and also fill in the rest with next tier players?

 

Read my mind, 100% agree.

I think the problem is that most people want to make a paper-stacked team. Fact is we need to fill holes which include adding the table setters that this team lacks. Cespedes sounds sexy, and it will surely make the team better, but how much better?

I think that we would get similar overall team production by adding role players (in example a speedy, high onbase outfielder) *cough* Denard Span *cough*. Not that a player like Span provides the same production as Cespedes or even close to it, but similar production for the team overall, although much cheaper and lesser commitment.

Same goes for every other position.

Great post.

 

Heyward has a career OBP of .360, hits 25-30 doubles a year, and steals 20 bags a year.  Can we say runner in scoring position?  

 

Have we learned nothing from Hamilton and Pujols?

 

 

Yeah.  Those guys were past their prime and they paid for their past production. Heyward will be 27 so they will be paying for his future production. Or will we just sign some older guy for cheaper and still get decreased production?

[Lou]

Yeah, i don't see the logic in equating Heywood with Hamilton and Pujols

[Ohtaniland]

I totally get where you are coming from Claude.

No more longggg contracts for 30+ and declining former stars!

Zobrist has maintained a solid OBP, which we desperately need. He plays 2B and LF, both spots of need. He's been on contending teams since the late 2000s. And as long as they could sign him for just 3 years plus a team option, he would definitely fill a need in general without getting crazy money.

Zobrist made $7.5M this season. Since he is 34 he's probably going to sign his last contract and attempt to get as much loot as posible. Why would the Angels want to pay him more money for his last 3 to 4 sunset years. He's not a shiny new toy.

[Stradling]

Because the price of free agency is higher than the cost of an extension. Also the cost of free agents is higher now than when he signed the extension.

[bloodbrother]

I've seen lots of threads suggesting the Angels go all in on Cespedes, Heyward, Davis, Price, etc...

 

All of these players will have payroll crippling salary, will want long contracts, and in some cases cost a draft pick. I've been the type that wanted these kind of signings in the past(hot stove champs!!!!!), but with the current team I don't find it wise to go this direction. Yes, of course if they were one bat away, but there will still be holes throughout the lineup and IMO filling it in with 3 next tier type players is wiser.

 

I think the best guy in that next tier is Zobrist. Him along with Span to leadoff, and bring back Freese if he's cost effective or even Uribe. Also Jaso as a bench bat and DH platoon. Sign a reliever or trade Hector for one plus a position player prospect. Trade Hector even if they do sign a FA reliever for a prospect or two. This is just one combination of many that they can go after and it's just to give an idea of what I'd like Eppler to do.

 

Hope that at least two of Wilson, Shoe, or Weave can rebound with Tropeano and Skaggs waiting in the wings ready to go.

 

 

Agree with this but after missing the playoffs and how emotional Arte gets, I fear he's going to want that shiny new toy and will add another bad contract or 2 to the team

[aznhockeyguy]

I would rather have Arte spend some of that FA money on scouting and development. 

[AngelsLakersFan]

I think Zobrist can be had for 3/27-33 with a 4th year option. Any more than that, then the team needs to find value elsewhere.

 

I have him down for 3 years $50 mill. At that price he's still a bargain and the Angels absolutely need to be in on him. He is the perfect piece for this team because he can hit at the top of the order and play every position that we have a need at, allowing us to keep all other options open.

[AngelArcher]

Why can't they get a guy like Heyward or Cespedes and also fill in the rest with next tier players?

You would then have to believe that Moreno is willing to blow past the salay cap by a lot and I believe he's only willing to go past it a little and then let some contracts expire to get back under by 2017.

[AngelArcher]

I would rather have Arte spend some of that FA money on scouting and development.

He indeed needs to spend more money in those areas, but it shouldn't be allowed to affect free agency or team payroll.