Who's after Scioscia?

[Lifetime]

What do you think the root of the problem is LT? Just random chance that all the players are wildly underperforming?

all the players aren't wildly under performing. The root of the problem is a thin starting rotation whose ace is injured, a mediocre bullpen that is being over taxed due to injuries and SP's that can't get out the 5th inning every single game and an offense that is pressing trying to make up for the lack of pitching.

[Vladfan]

This^^^^^

[AzHaloFan]

This entire season to date can be realistically boiled down to a few points...

1. The pitching S U C K S!!

2. The hitters are pressing.

3. Sosh does neither of hitting or pitching (he obviously does little of anything but have that emotionless face, but thats irregardless)

4. The last name out there as a replacement went to Cleveland this winter.

5. We do not have the resources to trade for arms that would help us.

 

At best we fire Butcher (it is HIS job to make sure the pitchers are as prep's as possible and to instruct, WITH RESULTS, in game adjustments - he has FAILED) , and do the best we can with what we have. I have not read a single line anywhere on the entire internet that has come up with a plausable managerial fix to this mess.  

 

I remember the days when we would bring in free agents that should "put us over the edge" and as much as we hoped, we were the same old Angels. The difference these days is you have the "Golden Glory Days" of 2002-2009 where the fan base 1, got spoiled and 2, exploded tenfold. That "tenfold" knows no better. Those who came to this team as a fan (and I'm not trying to diss those who fit into this category) during those years, frankly have a silver spoon in their mouths. Now that we have had a few down years everybody and their mother is breathing fire.

 

At the end of the day we have a owner and front office who are 100% commited to putting the best team on the field they can - they have done just that. The unfortunate reality is that what things look like on paper and what actually plays out, are all too often, far apart (current example - 2012-2013 Lakers)

 

I am going to fist pump and "hell yeah" when we turn a sweet double play or when Trouty walks something off or whenever anything else awesome occurs. I am going to want to throw my phone/tv/radio through the window when we lose a game we should have won over a dump call, play, decision, or whiff at a bad pitch with RISP. I am a FAN. I live and die with this team. Those of us who have been here long enough, I'm sure, have sworn this team off one day, only to be 3 pages deep into the OCR two days later.

 

It's kind of like how when Crash Davis goes off..."I QUIT...F*vk this!!! F*ck this Fv*king game!!" - storms out of the office, manager lights a smoke and pops open a beer and low and behold, Crash is back "who do we play tomorrow??". That is how Crash was as a player and that's how I am as a fan - it's just who I am.

#AzHaloFanOUT

[tj_]

3. Sosh does neither of hitting or pitching (he obviously does little of anything but have that emotionless face, but thats irregardless)

 

What? Is that even a word?

[Brian Ilten]

In reference to it not being considered right now;  I don't know how anyone can actually say that with a straight face.  We lose tonight, against the one guy who is worse than Blanton, Scioscia doesn't manage against the Tigers this weekend.

[Angel Oracle]

Hubs, your point about stability is a good one.   BUT, isn't there also a point when having the same manager for too long begins to be counter productive?    Not everyone can be like an Alston or Lasorda.   Alston did it because of the strong farm system and pitching emphasis.   Lasorda did it due to the farm system and type A personality that kept the players motivated.  

 

Granted Scioscia isn't to blame for the terrible farm system, but maybe the holdovers are getting tired of his methods? 

Butcher for sure hasn't been very good with helping to fix pitchers when they slump.

[AzHaloFan]

What? Is that even a word?

You forgot to use red ink

[Lifetime]

Hubs, your point about stability is a good one. BUT, isn't there also a point when having the same manager for too long begins to be counter productive? Not everyone can be like an Alston or Lasorda. Alston did it because of the strong farm system and pitching emphasis. Lasorda did it due to the farm system and type A personality that kept the players motivated.

Granted Scioscia isn't to blame for the terrible farm system, but maybe the holdovers are getting tired of his methods?

Butcher for sure hasn't been very good with helping to fix pitchers when they slump.

what hold overs?

[Make Angels Great Again]

all the players aren't wildly under performing. The root of the problem is a thin starting rotation whose ace is injured, a mediocre bullpen that is being over taxed due to injuries and SP's that can't get out the 5th inning every single game and an offense that is pressing trying to make up for the lack of pitching.

 

The starting rotation is under performing, this is a fact. Every single one of our starters has an ERA so far above their norms. I will grant you sample size but it's 14 games into the year and they are all pitching like crap. The only guys in the pen that are performing as expected so far are Frieri and Burnett.

[mtangelsfan]

I really haven't liked us going after the huge name free agents.  as a poster pointed out, we did that through the 80's and it did nothing.

 

I don't think this roster is a good fit for Sosh though.  He won with some good players, but not any great ones.  He had a team that matched his game style.

 

Now, do we blame Sosh for that or management for not giving him the players that fit his system better?

 

Anyways, I think we are stuck and Sosh might lose his job at the All-Star break if this team is below .500.

 

I also think Dipoto doesn't come back if this ends up being a losing season.  His moves have not worked out.

[LightTheHalo]

The Angels have 5 sacrifice hits in 548 plate appearances. Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Lifetime]

I really haven't liked us going after the huge name free agents.  as a poster pointed out, we did that through the 80's and it did nothing.

 

I don't think this roster is a good fit for Sosh though.  He won with some good players, but not any great ones.  He had a team that matched his game style.

 

Now, do we blame Sosh for that or management for not giving him the players that fit his system better?

 

Anyways, I think we are stuck and Sosh might lose his job at the All-Star break if this team is below .500.

 

I also think Dipoto doesn't come back if this ends up being a losing season.  His moves have not worked out.

Which players don't match his game style/system? 

[dimitrig]

What some people are missing is that this team hasn't just underperformed this season. It has underperformed for a few seasons. The one constant in all of that has been the manager. I don't think he's a terrible manager and there probably isn't anyone available who is better, but a change still needs to be made. Look at what the Lakers did. Is D'Antoni better than Brown? Not really. I think he may be worse. However, Brown got canned and the team has done better since.

[mp170.6]

Which players don't match his game style/system? 

 

I think a lot of players don't match his style -- the aggressive running, the base-stealing, etc. 

 

Pujols in St. Louis controlled the running game with a runner on 1st, not LaRussa.  I remember reading a couple articles about this when he left St. Louis. 

[Ray McKigney]

Does anybody remember what is was like to feel confident when an Angels pitcher had gotten out the first two batters in an inning?

[Jim]

I bet if the team went on a 20 game win streak and then lost one, everyone would be saying fire Scioscia after that one loss. 

 

Well this is just a good of time as any to bring the hyperbole term to the new website. 

 

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a shakeup of some kind, maybe after April. 

[Lifetime]

I think a lot of players don't match his style -- the aggressive running, the base-stealing, etc. 

 

Pujols in St. Louis controlled the running game with a runner on 1st, not LaRussa.  I remember reading a couple articles about this when he left St. Louis. 

I can't. Name the players. Scioscia likes to be aggressive at the plate and on the bases but he hasn't really had teams that were primarily that "style" of hitter. This team has a good mix of speed and power. The offense is really pretty well rounded and Scioscia's biggest successes have been with that kind of mix. The problem is not the position players not fitting with Scioscia's style. The real problem starts and stops with pitching. 

[Lifetime]

What some people are missing is that this team hasn't just underperformed this season. It has underperformed for a few seasons. The one constant in all of that has been the manager. I don't think he's a terrible manager and there probably isn't anyone available who is better, but a change still needs to be made. Look at what the Lakers did. Is D'Antoni better than Brown? Not really. I think he may be worse. However, Brown got canned and the team has done better since.

Beg to differ, outside of last year's start, they really haven't underperformed their norms. 

[nate]

Beg to differ, outside of last year's start, they really haven't underperformed their norms. 

 

They have missed the playoffs for three straight years.  They have underperformed.  This is a completely different roster than what Scioscia was successful with.  He needs contact hitters, he only has Aybar.

[nate]

His teams are also consistently unprepared.

[Ray McKigney]

Maybe is has something to do with the fact that Scioscia is fat?

[Lifetime]

They have missed the playoffs for three straight years.  They have underperformed.  This is a completely different roster than what Scioscia was successful with.  He needs contact hitters, he only has Aybar.

under performing has to do with the players not playing to their norms. it is not under performing if the team doesn't live up to fans' expectations. 

 

Scioscia does not need a plethora of contact hitters. What team that had success under Scioscia had a bunch of contact hitters?

[nate]

under performing has to do with the players not playing to their norms. it is not under performing if the team doesn't live up to fans' expectations. 

 

Scioscia does not need a plethora of contact hitters. What team that had success under Scioscia had a bunch of contact hitters?

 

Every single one of his playoff teams.  He had several contact hitters, low strikeout, high ball in play rate.

[mp170.6]

I can't. Name the players. Scioscia likes to be aggressive at the plate and on the bases but he hasn't really had teams that were primarily that "style" of hitter. This team has a good mix of speed and power. The offense is really pretty well rounded and Scioscia's biggest successes have been with that kind of mix. The problem is not the position players not fitting with Scioscia's style. The real problem starts and stops with pitching. 

 

We've had countless baserunning gaffes over the years because Scioscia: 1) tells players to steal bases, 2) implements poorly-timed hit and runs, or 3) has them run 1B to 3B when they would normally stop at 2B. 

 

Not all players have the skills to pull this off, and yet Scioscia forced this philosophy on them anyway.  Vlad is a good example of somebody totally unequipped for the hit and run game, and the 1B to 3B move on a single.  He didn't have the brains to pull it off and got caught at an alarming rate. 

[Lifetime]

We've had countless baserunning gaffes over the years because Scioscia: 1) tells players to steal bases, 2) implements poorly-timed hit and runs, or 3) has them run 1B to 3B when they would normally stop at 2B. 

 

Not all players have the skills to pull this off, and yet Scioscia forced this philosophy on them anyway. 

Disagree. The problems with some of those gaffs is not that the players assigned to carry them out were not capable. Sometimes it's just a poor strategy when it becomes too frequent and predictable. Sometimes it's just poor execution. Scioscia isn't forcing that philosophy on players that don't have the ability to execute it.