Angels-Phillies discussing trade...

[AngelsFanSince86]

I'm more looking at his career OPS and OPS+ and seeing that it would be third best on the team this year.

 

Again, all or nothing on AW.

 

 

Right, but its not some significant improvement.  I suppose if they can get him for very little then I'm for it.  I just don't see the point in giving up future talent for a guy who likely won't have much of an impact.  I mean Joyce has a career OPS+ of 114 compared to Reddick's 105.  I'm not saying he wouldn't be an improvement especially given his glove, but what do you think the Angels would have to give up to get him?  (honest question).   I'd prefer they wait until the offseason to make moves unless they can swing some good deals for a legitimate impact player.  

 

I guess I just feel maybe this won't be their year.  Or maybe the rotation will continue to be one of the best in the AL, Rasmus will come back and maybe Bedrosian comes up and they shore up the bullpen behind Smith and Street, and maybe the offense gets going a bit.  Maybe they make the playoffs and do well with the guys they have.  Maybe not.  I really don't think Reddick is going to be the difference in all that and so why make the trade?  Again, I'd be for it if we don't have to give up any significant pieces because I do think he would be an upgrade.  I just don't see that happening.

[Blarg]

It's a good thing Reddick has been far better than a replacement level player then.

 

You are right, Reddick is far beyond that but what concerns me about him is playing time. Two years in a row of injury bugs and in truth he has only one complete season on his resume. Which 50 or 60 games will he miss this season, no fault of his own, or maybe he just plays without thinking of consequences in regular season games. It is shades of Hamilton, productive but only in small doses because he does something incredibly stupid like dive headfirst on an infield dribbler.

 

Luckily his entire salary is Hamilton's take home the last couple of months. Beane will certainly hold out for a load of prospects since he has this and next season club control. How many Rondons do you think he is worth?

[Inside Pitch]

Third best is a replacement level player, tdawg87. I see no reason to chase our tails that way.

 

 

The knock on Reddick is injuries, otherwise he's a plus plus defender with pop.    Career ISO of .188.   Career OPS+ of 105 (111 the last four years), in 416 games with Oakland he's put up 12.7 WAR.  

 

Essentially he's been a 4 WAR player.  

 

Edited May 23, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[ukyah]

Isn't reddick the dude who took a picture of his nut sack last year?

No thanks

 

 

listen, if taking a picture of your nut suck is wrong, then i don't want to be right.

[Hardc0reFromDaStreetz]

theres no way ur getting Reddick, give it up.

[nikkachez]

Reddick would be perfect. Not sure I see the A's trading him within the division though.

Beane has never shied away from trading within the division, no reason he'd stop that philosophy. 

[Inside Pitch]

Right, but its not some significant improvement.  I suppose if they can get him for very little then I'm for it.  I just don't see the point in giving up future talent for a guy who likely won't have much of an impact.  I mean Joyce has a career OPS+ of 114 compared to Reddick's 105.  I'm not saying he wouldn't be an improvement especially given his glove, but what do you think the Angels would have to give up to get him?  (honest question).   I'd prefer they wait until the offseason to make moves unless they can swing some good deals for a legitimate impact player.  

 

I guess I just feel maybe this won't be their year.  Or maybe the rotation will continue to be one of the best in the AL, Rasmus will come back and maybe Bedrosian comes up and they shore up the bullpen behind Smith and Street, and maybe the offense gets going a bit.  Maybe they make the playoffs and do well with the guys they have.  Maybe not.  I really don't think Reddick is going to be the difference in all that and so why make the trade?  Again, I'd be for it if we don't have to give up any significant pieces because I do think he would be an upgrade.  I just don't see that happening.

 

If adding a potential 4 WAR player is not a significant improvement then nothing is.   The Matt Joyce comparison is a bad one because as you noted there is a significant difference in defense.  Joyce has put up a bWAR of 9.0 over 2660 PAs for his career, Reddick 14.2 in 600 fewer PAs.    I know it's not as sexy as pure offensive fireworks but more and more, it's clear that plus run prevention had a greater impact on wins than does run production.  That's not to say you can completely ignore offense, but a guy like Reddick brings enough offense when healthy to be worth looking at,  Again, the injury concerns are legit.  

 

Anyway, I'm not so much advocating a trade for him so much as saying if the Angels do decide to move parts then Reddick is a significantly better option than Ben Revere, I agree the question is what do you give up for him.   As I have said before, I believe the guys we have are capable of putting up league average offense and I'm willing to wait out the offense.

[Angel Oracle]

I say yes.. He's much better than what we have.

Howard is just a throw in and MUCH better than Joyce/Cron/Navarro/Cowgill. Like tdwag said, you get them to throw in Howard and pay some of his salary and get a leadoff hitter and slugger.

Laugh at Howard not being man enough or have enough power to hit a ball out of Anaheim stadium.

IP, not everything can be explained by advanced stats or even logic. Sometimes a change of scenery helps. Sometimes players hit better at home and it has no bearing on the dimensions. To say Howard doesn't have enough power to hit a ball out of Anaheim is laughable.

The same thing was likely said about Hamilton when first playing here. And...went homerless at home in 2014. That is what scares me about Howard. Like Hamilton in Texas, he plays in a HR happy park.

[AngelsFanSince86]

If adding a potential 4 WAR player is not a significant improvement then nothing is.   The Matt Joyce comparison is a bad one because as you noted there is a significant difference in defense.  Joyce has put up a bWAR of 9.0 over 2660 PAs for his career, Reddick 14.2 in 600 fewer PAs.    I know it's not as sexy as pure offensive fireworks but more and more, it's clear that plus run prevention had a greater impact on wins than does run production.  That's not to say you can completely ignore offense, but a guy like Reddick brings enough offense when healthy to be worth looking at,  Again, the injury concerns are legit.  

 

Anyway, I'm not so much advocating a trade for him so much as saying if the Angels do decide to move parts then Reddick is a significantly better option than Ben Revere, I agree the question is what do you give up for him.   As I have said before, I believe the guys we have are capable of putting up league average offense and I'm willing to wait out the offense.

 

 

Solid points.  Although I will point out that Cowgill was worth 2.2 WAR last year in 106 games.  The Angels could potentially be getting at least 2 WAR if they weren't playing Joyce (which I guess yes was a bad comparison seeing as how he is currently worth -1.7 WAR so far this year, but I guess my point is that potentially Joyce was supposed to be much better).  Theoretically though if Cowgill, an in-house option, were played there all year he would be worth at least 2 WAR.  So they would essentially be trading for 2 WAR.

 

But yes, I definitely agree with your assessment and that Reddick>Revere. Just don't like what they would likely have to give up for either player.  I don't feel either would have a big enough impact to warrant trading away the future. I think its going to take another year or two for this team to round out anyways with Kubitza, Yarborough, and Baldoquin coming up.  Bedrosian will hopefully be coming into his own and the rotation will be getting Skaggs back and will have a more practiced Heaney, Tropeano and in a couple years Newcomb.  I think being patient is the way to go right now.  

Edited May 23, 2015 by AngelsFanSince86

[Troll Daddy]

If Adam Kennedy can hit three out in one game ... then you're way over analyzing. Even little Eckstein had a pair of grannies at Angel stadium.

[sneaky_flute]

Amaro would want Mike Trout in return for Ryan Howard. 

[Cdaniel]

Howard with another big game so far.

[nando714]

Howard with another big game so far.

.294 avg as well.

[KevinJ14]

HR for Howard. His 10th

[tdawg87]

Well if he keeps hitting like this he's going to cost more than he's even remotely worth. That's pretty much the definition of "selling high".

[Dick B Back]

Both Howard and Fielder are having fine starts but that shouldn't mean anyone in their right mind would trade for either one of them.

[tdawg87]

Tony Reagins would.

 

#BlackGMsmatter

[Cdaniel]

Well if he keeps hitting like this he's going to cost more than he's even remotely worth. That's pretty much the definition of "selling high".

Totally agree. I didn't want to give anything of value up for Howard but that ship might have sailed now

[ukyah]

Ditto for occassional cocaine use.

 

 

awww, you remembered. i blushed a little.

 

basically, if anything i do or may do is wrong, then i don't want to be right, is what i'm saying.

Edited May 23, 2015 by ukyah

[ukyah]

inside pitch is owning this thread. i'd let him be the gm, at least for a day. if i were in my 20's i'd say he was pwning it, but it makes me feel weird because i'm almost 42.

Edited May 23, 2015 by ukyah

[ten ocho recon scout]

Reddick would be a great add, but i dont think hed do a whole lot for our offense. But it would be nice to have his defense out there, and if he hit .260/15-20 home runs it would be a nice compliment to the lackluster order after trout

[Tyler]

inside pitch is owning this thread. i'd let him be the gm, at least for a day. if i were in my 20's i'd say he was pwning it, but it makes me feel weird because i'm almost 42.

 

If by owning you mean completely overreacting to inquiring on Ben Revere and offering next to nothing for him, then yes, you're correct.

[Inside Pitch]

inside pitch is owning this thread. i'd let him be the gm, at least for a day. if i were in my 20's i'd say he was pwning it, but it makes me feel weird because i'm almost 42.

 

I watched Draft Day while staying in a Holiday Inn Express, pretty sure that makes me somewhat qualified to run a sports franchise into the ground.

[Inside Pitch]

If by owning you mean completely overreacting to inquiring on Ben Revere and offering next to nothing for him, then yes, you're correct.

Oh, I'd take him for chump change, I've said as much, he'd be a nice pinch runner 4th/5th OFer.  I wouldn't overreact until they used him as an everyday corner OFer.    

Edited May 24, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Tyler]

Oh, I'd take him for chump change, I've said as much, he's be a nice pinch runner 4th/5th OFer.  I wouldn't overreact until they used him as an everyday corner OFer.    

 

You know you're my dude. Glad you didnt take that last post by me differently. 

 

But at the same time, I don't think you're giving him enough credit. He has no arm. We agree. He doesn't walk enough. We agreed. However, his speed is game changing. 

 

You compared him to Aybar earlier, as a leadoff hitter, but Aybar has never even sniffed 180 hits in a season. You'd have to take Aybar's last four seasons combined in order to match Revere's SB total from last season. Revere's contact ability is amazing. His tools are there, and with a manager like Scioscia at the helm, then you have to take a look at this guy to see what the price is. 

 

Defensively, he has outstanding range. No arm, but huge range. 

 

We're looking for a spark. Not a WMD. Just a spark.