Angels-Phillies discussing trade...

[Chuck]

Tdawg is right. People do need to lower expecations. Remember Conger, mediocre back up catcher who can't throw runners out, was traded for a major league ready starter and a major league ready catching prospect.

Yes Revere sucks, Howard sucks, and Ethier sucks. However unless we are ready to trade three or four prospects for a bona-fide impact player, those are the type of guys we can get. Aging high priced vets won't costs us much. And I would rather gamble on Howard (if philly eats a major portion of Salary) than to mortgage our future on a rental.

 

Good post. 

[Inside Pitch]

Tdawg is right. People do need to lower expecations. Remember Conger, mediocre back up catcher who can't throw runners out, was traded for a major league ready starter and a major league ready catching prospect.

Yes Revere sucks, Howard sucks, and Ethier sucks. However unless we are ready to trade three or four prospects for a bona-fide impact player, those are the type of guys we can get. Aging high priced vets won't costs us much. And I would rather gamble on Howard (if philly eats a major portion of Salary) than to mortgage our future on a rental.

 

Settling for someone else's crap and wishing for better results is not a plan it's the act of a team lacking direction..  I understand everyone wants to see a move but if the only options are bad ones -- then maybe they are better off sticking with the guys who have recent history of success and hoping they return to form.

 

I'd much rather sell off at the all star break and add parts that will help next year than trade for career 85 OPS hitters who cant milk a walk, cant throw, and is going to be asked to play a corner OF slot.  A stiff like Revere won't improve this offense, he won't help the defense all that much and he won't help the payroll flexibilitty.  A guy like Howard will either cost you a lot of money or a useful players.  If the Phillies were really willing to take on 50 mil AND only want a middling prospect Howard would have been dealt a long time ago.  Are people really willing to move a useful player for Howard despite all the red flags?

 

For me it's simple, if the only thing you can get on the cheap is Revere, then pass..   Call up Green, call up Kubitza, Call up anyone with a heartbeat and if nothing sticks and the team falls out of contention, then sell off.   Wait out the Dodgers situation..  Brett Anderson should be due to break down soon, maybe they part with something actually worth having for a non-rental CJ Wilson or a well below market price Hector Santiago.  Sell of David Freese, Sell off Chris Ianetta...  I mean, all the same rules apply right?  There aren't any superstar 3B likely to be made available or front line catchers so, why not trade them and hope to get something worthwhile from a team looking for an upgrade.

 

Accepting the idea of taking a step back to take a step forward shouldn't be taken off the table.  

Edited May 22, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Blarg]

Jackie Bradley back to Pawtucket For Castillo

Send a low to mid level prospect to Boston for him. It can't hurt?

 

Why would Boston take a lesser player in trade for one with options?

[Blarg]

If you look at Philadelphia's roster the first thing you will notice is they look like a clone of the Angels with only two guys with a positive OPS+. That is Howard and Galvis. Galvis has no power but they are not letting him go.

 

I'm sure they will listen to any interest in the other 12 guys that use a bat for a living.

 

They would be happy to let us have the ghost of Grady Sizemore and we probably wouldn't have to include a Rondon.

 

You want to Chase Chase? His .292 slugging percentage would really bolster the #4 spot.

 

There is nothing to farm from the Philadelphia roster. Nothing.

[Catwhoshatinthehat]

He doesn't have to, that's the thing. The Angels don't need top 5 or 10 offensive performers at every position. They just need to not suck so hard. Left field is definitely the easiest upgrade you can make.

 

Matt Joyce has been our primary left fielder, and he's sporting an absolutely pathetic wRC+ (Fangraphs version of OPS+) of just 17! Ethier is currently at 158 comparatively. Now, I don't expect Ethier to keep up that pace all year, he'll probably drop off back down to 120-130 by year's end, but then again you never know.

 

Even though Ethier isn't a superstar, he's still a gigantic upgrade over what we have, and I would much much prefer him over Revere or Howard.

He's an upgrade over a guy who shouldn't even be playing. He's also owed almost 18M a year through 2017 and if his contract vests it's through 2018. For that kind of money you don't hope for a spark to the line up you better be getting a stick of dynamite. .

[VariousCrap]

Settling for someone else's crap and wishing for better results is not a plan it's the act of a team lacking direction.

 

 

Just wanted to say....Ethier is not crap.  He would be the Angels second or third best hitter.

Edited May 23, 2015 by VariousCrap

[tdawg87]

I don't think you will convince anyone here. It's essentially become all or nothing. We either get Youngface McSuperstar while giving up nothing or we stand pat and hope the current bunch can "work on some things" because anything in the middle is going to be absolutely awful.

[VariousCrap]

I don't think you will convince anyone here. It's essentially become all or nothing. We either get Youngface McSuperstar while giving up nothing or we stand pat and hope the current bunch can "work on some things" because anything in the middle is going to be absolutely awful.

 

 

Yeah...I'm getting that feeling too.  I think some people in this thread need to realize this is real life and not MLB the Show where you can trade for a super-stud without giving up much.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Settling for someone else's crap and wishing for better results is not a plan it's the act of a team lacking direction..  I understand everyone wants to see a move but if the only options are bad ones -- then maybe they are better off sticking with the guys who have recent history of success and hoping they return to form.

 

I'd much rather sell off at the all star break and add parts that will help next year than trade for career 85 OPS hitters who cant milk a walk, cant throw, and is going to be asked to play a corner OF slot.  A stiff like Revere won't improve this offense, he won't help the defense all that much and he won't help the payroll flexibilitty.  A guy like Howard will either cost you a lot of money or a useful players.  If the Phillies were really willing to take on 50 mil AND only want a middling prospect Howard would have been dealt a long time ago.  Are people really willing to move a useful player for Howard despite all the red flags?

 

For me it's simple, if the only thing you can get on the cheap is Revere, then pass..   Call up Green, call up Kubitza, Call up anyone with a heartbeat and if nothing sticks and the team falls out of contention, then sell off.   Wait out the Dodgers situation..  Brett Anderson should be due to break down soon, maybe they part with something actually worth having for a non-rental CJ Wilson or a well below market price Hector Santiago.  Sell of David Freese, Sell off Chris Ianetta...  I mean, all the same rules apply right?  There aren't any superstar 3B likely to be made available or front line catchers so, why not trade them and hope to get something worthwhile from a team looking for an upgrade.

 

Accepting the idea of taking a step back to take a step forward shouldn't be taken off the table.  

 

The issue is that the parts that we need to sell off wouldn't bring any player likely to help for at least three years, if ever. I do agree with not rushing into a deal at this point, but there are options other than standing pat and having a fire sale.

[Inside Pitch]

Just wanted to say....Ethier is not crap.  He would be the Angels second or third best hitter.

 

I don't think you've seen me say anything remotely negative about Either, I realize Tdawg mentioned him in his post but my comments have always been directed at the two stiffs in Philly.  Thus my naming them both.

 

Either is someone that is worth considering...  If the A's decide to sell off then IMO Josh Reddick is someone you give something up for as well.  Parra, Lind..  All useful players.   Ben Revere?  Ryan Howard?  different story.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[Inside Pitch]

The issue is that the parts that we need to sell off wouldn't bring any player likely to help for at least three years, if ever. I do agree with not rushing into a deal at this point, but there are options other than standing pat and having a fire sale.

 

Still better than holding on to them and letting them leave as FAs.    Likewise, I'm not advocating a firesale but if I had to choose between trading for mediocrities or selling off -- I'd pick selling off.  

 

I actually believe there is reason to believe that the guys that have been struggling will at least be league average hitters.  

Edited May 23, 2015 by Inside Pitch

[VariousCrap]

 Either is someone that is worth considering?  If the A's decide to sell off then IMO Josh Reddick is someone you give something up for as well.  Parra, Lind..  All useful players.   Ben Revere?  Ryan Howard?  different story.

 

 

Sorry.  The topic has changed so much, I wasn't sure who you were talking about.  Either and Reddick are two guys I wouldn't mind seeing in an Angels uniform.  I'd prefer Reddick, but they would have to give up more to get him.

 

I agree that Howard would be a huge mistake and not worth it.  Revere would be worth getting if you can get him for next to nothing.  Of course, in the long run, you have to hope Revere ends up being nothing more than a guy off of the bench. 

Edited May 23, 2015 by VariousCrap

[Inside Pitch]

Sorry.  The topic has changed so much, I wasn't sure who you were talking about.  Either and Reddick are two guys I wouldn't mind seeing in an Angels uniform.  I'd prefer Reddick, but they would have to give up more to get him.

 

I agree that Howard would be a huge mistake and not worth it.  Revere would be worth getting if you can get him for next to nothing.  Of course, in the long run, you have to hope Revere ends up being nothing more than a guy off of the bench. 

 

No need to apologize, the thread has indeed been everywhere and Either was in fact mentioned in the post I responded to, I should have been more clear.  I agree Reddick would cost more, but he's a guy who can play defense, has some pop and would likely be worth giving up someone in order to get him.   I wouldn't mind Revere as a back up/pinch runner -- but I wouldn't want to see him starting in LF or leading off. 

[tdawg87]

Reddick would be perfect. Not sure I see the A's trading him within the division though.

[LAAMike]

At least we are only looking to shore up two holes. Two weeks ago seeking a catcher would have also been in play. The batting averages are starting to get better and its only May. An eight game winning streak and all will be well.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Still better than holding on to them and letting them leave as FAs.    Likewise, I'm not advocating a firesale but if I had to choose between trading for mediocrities or selling off -- I'd pick selling off.  

 

The trick is getting anything of value in return. If you don't. you would be about as well off with an outright release. Nobody is going to pick up a major contract on a non-producing player and return any player likely to ever make a difference.

[Erstad Grit]

I like either, but his stats are padded. He almost never hits against lefties anymore.

[Blarg]

In May.

[AngelsFanSince86]

Reddick would be perfect. Not sure I see the A's trading him within the division though.

 

Reddick?? You mean the guy with a career .250 BA and .310 OBP?? The guy who has hit more than 12 HRs once?  The Angels are pulling at straws if they are willing to trade anyone for Reddick

 

Edit: I'm fine with what we have.  I agree with you our options are very limited.  Trading for someone like Reddick means giving up future talent for no big improvement.  He is a great defender, but that is not the Angels weak point.  He is hitting well, but for how long?I wish the guys they have were panning out more, but they aren't.  I think at this point they do what they can.  If they can make a great trade that is truly beneficial without getting rid of crucial future talent then I am all for it.  Chances of that are slim and so I'd prefer they wait until the offseason.  Everyone is worried about wasting Trout, but if they really want this team to be solid in his prime then it will take time to build that team.  So far its looking like the pitching staff is there.  Give Dipoto time to work on the offensive side now and see what happens.  Being hasty and expecting midseason trades/big contracts is what got the Angels in to the predicament they are now in.

Edited May 23, 2015 by AngelsFanSince86

[tdawg87]

I'm more looking at his career OPS and OPS+ and seeing that it would be third best on the team this year.

 

Again, all or nothing on AW.

[Blarg]

Third best is a replacement level player, tdawg87. I see no reason to chase our tails that way.

Edited May 23, 2015 by notti

[Glen]

It appears that the offense is finally starting to come around a bit.  Joyce and Iannetta are picking it up.  Yes, I know, it's against some bad pitching but it still counts.  At this point the team looks like it can afford to stand pat until around the trading deadline and then add a bench piece or two (Revere would be a nice bench piece).  Meantime, do the obvious and switch Cron and Green and see how it goes.

[Hollyw00d]

Isn't reddick the dude who took a picture of his nut sack last year?

No thanks

[bloodbrother]

You saying you haven't taken any pics of your nut sack?

[tdawg87]

Third best is a replacement level player, tdawg87. I see no reason to chase our tails that way.

It's a good thing Reddick has been far better than a replacement level player then.