Angels end stadium negotiations with Anaheim; Tustin on deck?

[Angel Oracle]

Not a fan of corporate welfare to billionaires courtesy of tax dollars paid by folks working hard to live paycheck to paycheck. COA needs to do what is in the best interest of their citizens financially. That said, the financial truth rests somewhere between all the BS "projections" overpriced and ridiculous consultants submit.

The whole thing reeks.

In other words, politics as normal.

[mancini79]

If Arte believes moving the team in the OC area will give to a better fan experience, then I'm all for it. But I can understand the concern for each side. If Disney is looking at that land to increase the amusement park, then that's a good deal for Anaheim. That will give the city revenue 365 days/yr as apposed to 81 home games with the Angels. So really neither side needs the other. But if Disney will be the one's funding the $$ to build on that land, they will probably want the same deal Arte is looking for. Get the land for next to nothing.

[Ohtaniland]

I think it's time for all of the kabillionaires to get together and figure out how they can build a new MLB stadium and a new NFL stadium all in the same complex that would include developing the surrounding area. The Big A is obsolete and $150M in renovations won't do much to change that.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Hamiltown

[mancini79]

I think it's time for all of the kabillionaires to get together and figure out how they can build a new MLB stadium and a new NFL stadium all in the same complex that would include developing the surrounding area. The Big A is obsolete and $150M in renovations won't do much to change that.

 

I agree with you. This would be a bit of a pipe dream, but would be awesome if it could be pulled off.

[red321]

IIRC the real estate market suffered just a little bit right around the time the Platinum Triangle was being built.

 

Anaheim has not been able to develop the 'Platinum Triangle' over the past decade

 

Um yeah, things have changed.

 

now suddenly they do an appraisal on it's potential value and see it worth a fortune? 

 

Anaheim has been trying to develop that land since the eighties...the Platinum Triangle was just one cluster **** amongst many. 

 

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/caapp4th/25/11.html

 

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-05-11/sports/sp-1319_1_parking-lot

 

 

 

Let's take a walk down memory lane...

 

In the 30-year lease, Rosenbloom agreed to pay the city 7 1/2 percent of the gross admission proceeds and half the concession and parking revenues. The deal allowed the Rams to use 68 acres of the stadium parking lot to develop high-rise office buildings.

But in June 1988, an Orange County Superior Court judge ruled in favor of the California Angels, who share the stadium with the Rams, in the Angels' lawsuit to prevent construction of the high-rises.

 

 

The Rams were also unsuccessful off the field during this period, and were never able to come to agreement with the City of Anaheim on the development of real estate near Anaheim Stadium that was included in the original lease agreement. During a series of negotiations held in the early 1990s, Rams vice-president John Shaw made a deal that renounced the team’s claims against the city in exchange for an out option on the team’s lease. Instead of the 30-year agreement that would bind the team through the 2009 season, the option allowed the Rams to escape the lease after 15 years.

 

 

 

None of this is to say the city should just bend over...but the city of Anaheim and their leadership have always traveled to work in a very short bus and have shown over the decades that they have no idea how to develop the land in that area. The enticed the Rams by leasing the land twice...lost to the Angels who were able to gain more favorable lease terms...lost the Rams because they leased the land twice...and now are on the verge of losing the Angels. All so they can...let the land sit vacant or bend over and hand it to Disney? Well played Anaheim...well played.

[red321]

They are already planning a huge infrastructure project down Katella to link the ARTIC to the Convention Center and Disneyland Resort.

 

If Disney wants that land bad enough, the City Council isn't going to tell them no.

 

Would that be the pie in the sky monorail project that is magically going to whisp people over the 5 freeway? Yeah...that's going to happen sometime soon. Curt Pringle is apparently quite active in your imagination.

 

And you may be right, maybe the city of Anaheim wants to do a deal with Disney...because they've done such a great job in the past with that.

[Ohtaniland]

Anaheim has been trying to develop that land since the eighties...the Platinum Triangle was just one cluster **** amongst many.

http://law.justia.com/cases/california/caapp4th/25/11.html

http://articles.latimes.com/1991-05-11/sports/sp-1319_1_parking-lot

Let's take a walk down memory lane...

In the 30-year lease, Rosenbloom agreed to pay the city 7 1/2 percent of the gross admission proceeds and half the concession and parking revenues. The deal allowed the Rams to use 68 acres of the stadium parking lot to develop high-rise office buildings.

But in June 1988, an Orange County Superior Court judge ruled in favor of the California Angels, who share the stadium with the Rams, in the Angels' lawsuit to prevent construction of the high-rises.

The Rams were also unsuccessful off the field during this period, and were never able to come to agreement with the City of Anaheim on the development of real estate near Anaheim Stadium that was included in the original lease agreement. During a series of negotiations held in the early 1990s, Rams vice-president John Shaw made a deal that renounced the team’s claims against the city in exchange for an out option on the team’s lease. Instead of the 30-year agreement that would bind the team through the 2009 season, the option allowed the Rams to escape the lease after 15 years.

None of this is to say the city should just bend over...but the city of Anaheim and their leadership have always traveled to work in a very short bus and have shown over the decades that they have no idea how to develop the land in that area. The enticed the Rams by leasing the land twice...lost to the Angels who were able to gain more favorable lease terms...lost the Rams because they leased the land twice...and now are on the verge of losing the Angels. All so they can...let the land sit vacant or bend over and hand it to Disney? Well played Anaheim...well played.

All of these officials that you're referring to are all voted in by the residents of Anaheim. Well played residents.

[red321]

All of these officials that you're referring to are all voted in by the residents of Anaheim. Well played residents.

 

 

 

So are you implying the residents of Anaheim purposefully voted for morons to be on the council? Would put them in line with residents of some of the neighboring cities for sure.

[Ohtaniland]

So are you implying the residents of Anaheim purposefully voted for morons to be on the council? Would put them in line with residents of some of the neighboring cities for sure.

No not on purpose. Apathy is truly the problem with Anaheim and most cities.

[Blarg]

Says the Montreal Expos fan.

 

[Chimi]

Would that be the pie in the sky monorail project that is magically going to whisp people over the 5 freeway? Yeah...that's going to happen sometime soon. Curt Pringle is apparently quite active in your imagination.

And you may be right, maybe the city of Anaheim wants to do a deal with Disney...because they've done such a great job in the past with that.

No, not the monorail. They scrapped that idea when it was too expensive. Now they are trying to put a trolley right down the middle of Katella. Imagine the mess a trolley is going to cause when it's going right down the middle of the road. Of course Disney is fighting it because of the wires that go along with having a trolley system but apparently they are tossing around the idea of hybrid trolleys that don't use wires when it's around Disneyland Resort. Disney speaks, Anaheim listens.

[Ohtaniland]

Says the Montreal Expos fan.

Plenty of good seats available Eric. What's wrong with that

[disarcina]

What Red321 seems to be saying is that if you read between the lines of all these past failed "Platinum Triangle' proposed development schemes, the fact is that CITY OFFICIALS competence level on private sector type development/ investment is so lacking it will never measure up to what a true private sector investor (read Arte Moreno who made his millions in marketing well before he owned the Angels) can do.

 

And the prior "Platinum Triangle' developments of the past INCLUDED potential REDVELOPMENT tax increment type financing possibilities -- something that today -- with the State of California (Gov. Brown) essentially eliminated all redevelopment agencies and taking that financing vehicle (which is very favorable to cities) off the table -- the latest Platinum Triangle development proposals may be less financially viable than the prior unsuccessful ones.

 

Sure some real estate appraiser retained by the city can envision empty Angel Stadium acreage and it's POTENTIAL and add up the dollars..........but the Platinum Triangle has had economic development POTENTIAL for years and look where it stands today.

 

If the Angels just want to hand the property over to Disney and have them finance some infrastructure improvements from the new transit center to Downtown Disney and to the park -- well, great. But the reality if, if the City does that they've just allowed the city's finances and treasurer more reliant on Disney than it is today.......so if the City wants to turn even MORE control over to the Disney corporate folks and give them the leverage to make constant demands for concessions on the city, well, that's great.

 

The City Council has approved the proposal made to the Angels and Moreno. The mayor objects. I am not sure if the City of Anaheim has a strong mayor system in place (sounds like it, if the mayor can over-ride the majority of the city council).  Perhaps they should (have) put the issue on the ballot - both the city's proposal that was passed by the council and presented to Arte as well as a measure reverting the city to a city manager-council (meaning mayor is just one vote on the city council) system.

 

Of course the city manager (likely ZERO private sector development/ financing experience) has had some objections to the proposal as well (which may have been driving the mayor's position or vice versa) but if its a non-strong mayor city manager/ council system -- the city council majority directs the city manager.........

 

The mayor's position re the potential value of the property is somewhat akin to family members/ spouses arguing over what they're going to with the money WHEN they win the lotto......of course, they haven't won the lotto and chances are close to nil that they will -- but WHAT POTENTIAL........we can't give that money away...........

[Puget Sound Angel]

As someone who grew up in Tustin, I just might have to move from Seattle back home if the Angels arrive.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

The Montreal Angels. I like it.

 

Hey, the stadium is in place, a fan base without baseball...

[Vegas Halo Fan]

I think it's time for all of the kabillionaires to get together and figure out how they can build a new MLB stadium and a new NFL stadium all in the same complex that would include developing the surrounding area. The Big A is obsolete and $150M in renovations won't do much to change that.

 

On a smaller scale the same thing is under debate here. The people who don't want to spend a dime of public money on a new ballpark are saying "renovate Cashman Field". The park is so inadequate (both teams sharing a clubhouse, batting cage literally in the parking lot) that demolition is the only thing that would renovate it, and given the location it isn't worth it. Driving past the homeless encampment on the way to the stadium lends a lot to game day atmosphere.

[Spirit]

I've always been a fan of the beach idea.

 

 

 

[disarcina]

Vegas Halo Fan -- agreed -- Cashman's condition and location make it beyond rehabilitation as a sports venue.

 

IMO what's going to happen in Las Vegas is that one of the pro leagues (NHL perhaps?) is going to locate a professional sports team in Las Vegas and once that happens the other leagues may follow.....I think the NHL would be the best bet (no pun intended) for the ice-breaker (no pun intended) of pro sports in Vegas.......I think the NBA is very cautious about it because of point shaving concerns and the general reputation of the NBA -- and I think the NFL doesn't have a team to go there right now and would be very, very cautious -- although I would cast Las Vegas as a football town more than anything else.....

 

but if a pro team goes there and is successful -- I think you would see the other pro leagues follow.

 

and the major development players could make it happen in Las Vegas.......look what South Fork (is that the name of the place?) has done for PCRA and now Las Vegas has re-upped for the NFR for another ten years (if anyone really thought NFR would actually relocate to Orlando, Florida -- well.........yeah right).

 

It would interesting to see how a pro team (NHL or otherwise) would do in Las Vegas -- I think you'd see the most luxury suites of any arena and the casino's would buy in and have them available for high roller guests.........I think the revenue potential there is significant and attendance on any given game night would be better than average........

 

the toughest part might be generating an actual local fan base.......although UNLV basketball and football seem to do pretty well........and just this weekend ESPN featured a Las Vegas high school football team in its game of the week -- nationwide.

[Vegas Halo Fan]

Vegas Halo Fan -- agreed -- Cashman's condition and location make it beyond rehabilitation as a sports venue.

 

IMO what's going to happen in Las Vegas is that one of the pro leagues (NHL perhaps?) is going to locate a professional sports team in Las Vegas and once that happens the other leagues may follow.....I think the NHL would be the best bet (no pun intended) for the ice-breaker (no pun intended) of pro sports in Vegas.......I think the NBA is very cautious about it because of point shaving concerns and the general reputation of the NBA -- and I think the NFL doesn't have a team to go there right now and would be very, very cautious -- although I would cast Las Vegas as a football town more than anything else.....

 

but if a pro team goes there and is successful -- I think you would see the other pro leagues follow.

 

and the major development players could make it happen in Las Vegas.......look what South Fork (is that the name of the place?) has done for PCRA and now Las Vegas has re-upped for the NFR for another ten years (if anyone really thought NFR would actually relocate to Orlando, Florida -- well.........yeah right).

 

It would interesting to see how a pro team (NHL or otherwise) would do in Las Vegas -- I think you'd see the most luxury suites of any arena and the casino's would buy in and have them available for high roller guests.........I think the revenue potential there is significant and attendance on any given game night would be better than average........

 

the toughest part might be generating an actual local fan base.......although UNLV basketball and football seem to do pretty well........and just this weekend ESPN featured a Las Vegas high school football team in its game of the week -- nationwide.

 

That high school would be Bishop Gorman. They have been on ESPN multiple times. Among the players they have recently produced are DeMarco Murray of Oklahoma and the Dallas Cowboys. Their recruiting of local talent and the wide gap between them and everyone else has led many high school coaches in the state to complain to the state athletic authorities that the state football playoffs are little more than a formality as Gorman crushes everyone they face and then they raise the trophy like it's a major accomplishment. They take the cream of local talent and then play teams who are stuck with whoever tries out. It is like sticking the Seattle Seahawks in the Sun Belt Conference.

 

We're on the same page about Cashman Field - although the less enlightened souls who write to the local paper always talk about renovating it as opposed to building a new park - which won't work. It was badly designed to begin with, and age hasn't improved it - or the neighborhood around it.

 

We will have a pro sports team here, and it isn't far off. I agree with you - once everyone sees that the earth won't be swallowed by a black hole when pro sports arrives in Sin City, other sports will follow. I'm not sure about the NFL, although in many respects they would be the best fit, with fewer games played. There was a story in the local paper a couple of years ago about the ownership of the San Diego Chargers making informal inquiries with the city about what might await them if they come here. There have been rumors about the Oakland Athletics for years. There was a story a number of years ago that a group of investors headed by Reggie Jackson planned to buy the A's with the expressed intent of moving them here. That became more legitimized when Bud Selig mentioned publicly that we were finalists for the relocation of the Montreal Expos. I can't imagine what the situation would be here now if they had, with them just winning a division title and their marquis star Bryce Harper being a local.

 

We will see what happens here - and I am watching with interest to see what the Angels do with their ballpark situation. Angel Stadium has had one renovation, and that is usually about the limit before you have to start thinking about a new park.

Edited September 28, 2014 by Vegas Halo Fan

[budice0]

Los Angeles Angels of Tustin .. ewww.

Los Angeles Angels of Newport Beach...yeah!

 

Always gotta complain about the stadium come playoff time.

Anaheim got burned on the name so now they no so friendly.

[nate]

I've always been a fan of the beach idea.

 

 

 

 

I am sure they would love to demolish all those million dollar homes and build a really busy road through there for a stadium .

 

Los Angeles Angels of Milwaukee.  Git r done Arte!

[disarcina]

having won the earlier skirmish with the City of Anaheim which helped create a record about the territorial rights to "Los Angeles" issue back when Gene Autry was granted by MLB 'the second Los Angeles franchise" and then had to pay the Dodgers and Walter O' Malley essentially an 'entry fee' (Autry and others might have referred to it as a 'ransom') by playing Dodger Stadium for what ? at least two years (more?) with the Angels getting ZERO concessionaire revenue and ZERO parking revenue (all going to O'Malley's Dodgers) and only getting ticket sales revenue -- having done that and paid that 'entry fee' -- I think the Angels have another very viable option that MLB and the Dodgers really couldn't do much to block it (although they might whine and complain) -- DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES.

 

I think the Angels are free to consider DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES.

 

Do I want to move there ? NO?  Would a I prefer right where they are, perhaps with a new baseball only park built next door in the parking lot while the team plays in Angel Stadium? YES.  Will that happen? ONLY IF ANAHEIM PUTS IT's PRIOR APPROVED OFFER TO ARTE BACK ON THE TABLE......

 

Is DOWNTOWN LOS ANGELES a better financial option all around to TUSTIN?   Probably.

 

Would being like the Clippers are to the Lakers (Angels to the Dodgers) in Los Angeles a better financial deal than Anaheim ? (Perhaps -- If I were the City of Anaheim I would not want to be doing anything that gives Arte a motivation to determine the answer to that question -- City of Anaheim -- like it or not always second fiddle to L.A. from an economic investment stand-point, might not like the answer to that question).

 

Arte's timing of the 'break off of negotiations with the City of Anaheim just as the Angels enter the playoff run is, as, always. is well thought out, perfect timing to gain maximum leverage.

 

I honestly believe that the City of Anaheim's city 'leaders' are fully capable of losing the Angels.

 

If that does happen -- and the Angels non-renew -- Disney's 'negotiating leverage' (what negotiation?) would become almost absolute, if it isn't there already.

 

I would imagine, at that point, the demands and requirements of Disney regarding the use of the Angel Stadium property would make the Angels offer look pretty good in comparison.

 

For one, I can imagine Disney telling City of Anaheim that if must pay for the demolition/ razing of Angel Stadium to make the real estate suitable for Disney's uses (perhaps at $1 a year rental rate, same as that rate APPROVED by the CITY COUNCIL for Arte and the Angels).......I wonder if the City of Anaheim's expert calculated in the demolition costs to be borne by the City in its analysis.

 

If the City of Anaheim is playing the equivalent of the game of 'chicken' with Arte Moreno - I think they've made a major mis-calculation.

[QuinlansMinion]

If the team did move to LA, the franchise is dead. The core fanbase and most of it is right here in Orange County. For as much as everyone wants to consider the Angels LA, they arent. Maybe internationally some people can confuse the two. LA will always be a Dodger town though, which is quite fine with me. But if the Angels move there nobody would care about them, id be willing to bet attendance numbers drop.

[disarcina]

"If the team moves to Downtown LA, the fan base would die"

 

I wouldn't be too sure about that -- the fan base may chance but it wouldn't die.

 

revenue may increase.

 

team may be more successful.

 

If I were City of Anaheim I would not be giving Arte and the Angels a reason even to begin to start the comparison of venue process.

 

Another option could be Long Beach.

[joeywings]

"If the team moves to Downtown LA, the fan base would die"

 

I wouldn't be too sure about that -- the fan base may chance but it wouldn't die.

 

revenue may increase.

 

team may be more successful.

 

If I were City of Anaheim I would not be giving Arte and the Angels a reason even to begin to start the comparison of venue process.

 

Another option could be Long Beach.

Would the Doyyers allow that ???? Can't they sue MLB ?

I don't know if we can even move to Carson or Irwindale .