Cops are great

[jshep]

Really?! Still not waiting for the COMPLETE facts to come-out before condemning the Officer?

It's changed from shooting an un-armed man in the back for jaywalking, to a probable robbery suspect overnight and I'm sure there's more to come beyond the fact that the Police report NAMES Brown as the suspect..

Pass judgement.

You do realize it's largely the PD who has been changing the story right? On Tuesday the chief of police was telling reporters that Brown WASNT being stopped for another crime.

And yeah, I'll admit that after everything that's happened over the past several days my opinion of Ferguson PD isn't particularly high. Including the part where they refused to interview the best eyewitness available. I don't think it should be.

As far as the officer involved in the shooting:

There doesn't seem to be any sort of dispute that there was a close quarters physical confrontation between the officer and Brown. The police line is that Brown was the aggressor and was trying to grab his gun, the other eyewitnesses indicate that the officer was the aggressor.

After which Brown tried to flee. And the accounts at that point are that the officer started shooting at him and his friend, hit Brown in the back, Brown turned around (according to eyewitnesses with his hands up yelling that he was unarmed, don't shoot) and the officer shot him several more times killing him.

So without "condemning" the officer, I'll say that shooting and killing the presumably unarmed person(since the PD isn't even claiming he was armed at this point) from a distance of roughly 35 feet is not a scenario that I have much faith in his actions being justified in.

[Kevin]

It's good to see that we now know more about the potential robbery and Michael Brown as a suspect in that robbery than the actual shooting incident.

Red I believe your quote is meant to be sarcasm. Please correct me if I am wrong.

It's good to know that there is more to the story (allegedly) than the simple fact of a black kid being killed by a white cop.

Having said that, Michael Brown should not have been shot and killed if he raised his hands in surrender. We as a people can be just as reactionary though when it comes to initial reports. Like everything else in life there is context to every story. The media doesn't help the situation.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Kevin

[red321]

Red I believe your quote is meant to be sarcasm. Please correct me if I am wrong.

It's good to know that there is more to the story (allegedly) than the simple fact of a black kid being killed by a white cop.

Having said that, Michael Brown should not have been shot and killed if he raised his hands in surrender. We as a people can be just as reactionary though when it comes to initial reports. Like everything else in life there is context to every story. The media doesn't help the situation.

 

It is sarcasm...the police have repeatedly refused to release details on their shooting investigation and autopsy results and they did not actually provide any details suggesting that the officer suspected Brown as a suspect in the robbery when the shooting occurred...yet they have no issue doing a document dump trying to frame Michael Brown as a thug. Wonder why that is?

[jshep]

@AntonioFrench: #Ferguson Police Chief: The initial contact between #DarrenWilson and #MikeBrown was NOT related to the alleged theft of cigars.

@jonswaine: Jackson: Officer who shot Brown did not know about reported robbery; his stop of Brown, shooting were not connected to it

@ShaunKing: Police Chief JUST CONFIRMED that the shooting officer, Darren Wilson DID NOT write his own incident report. INSANITY.

Edited August 15, 2014 by jshep

[mp170.6]

Double-standard?!  This is one of the most insane comments I've read here..  NO,  a potential suspect's word is not going to circumvent my duty to investigate an incident.  I understand you would have me make another split-second judgement about the potential suspect's "demeanor" and the passion of his/her claims of innocence.  You'd be shocked; LOTS of people lie to me on a daily basis!  Mostly suspects, but even innocent people and for the stupidest of reasons.

 

I'd rather do my job professionally and detain someone for a few minutes, rather than try to play "Judge" and let a potential suspect pass me by and possibly turn and hurt my Partners and I.  WE as a Department do a great job of picking innocent folks up, dusting them off, and explaining/apologizing our actions.

 

I see that you will never understand the intricacies of my job.  We've got to be flexible enough to play Cop, fighter, parent, counselor, priest, Fireman, and sometimes Judge in an instant.

 

That's not what I meant at all.  Based on your description, I think you handled the situation at the liquor store perfectly fine.  I wasn't complaining or questioning for one second that you had to detain those guys.  Let me attempt to diagram this better.

 

A potential suspect tells police at the scene of a crime: "Hey man, don't look at me, I'm a good man, I would never do something like that"

Police tells civilians about his professionalism on the job:  "Hey man, don't look at me, I'm a good police officer, I would never do something like that"

 

In the first example, you can't take them at their word because, as you pointed out, people are known to lie, especially those guilty of a crime.  Their spoken words are not sufficient to prove innocence or guilt, hence the need to detain them to investigate further.  I see nothing wrong with that.  But when a police officer's conduct is called into question in the second example, the prevailing attitude among police is that civilians should take them at their word, well, just because. Police aren't willing to provide much of anything that proves their professionalism.  The situation is even worse in California -- thanks to POBRA, it's virtually impossible to find out who the good or bad cops are.  So in terms of the profession as a whole, why should I assume the police aren't lying to civilians in the same manner people lie to the police?

 

Do you see the double standard now?

[Blarg]

Kinda like the guy that parks his sisters car in the way, then leaves the car door open and blames his Grandmother for her bad driving, then wants cops to apologize. Double standard.

[mp170.6]

Kinda like the guy that parks his sisters car in the way, then leaves the car door open and blames his Grandmother for her bad driving, then wants cops to apologize. Double standard.

 

haha

 

That wasn't my sister's car by the way, it was my cousin's. And it was my aunt, not grandmother.  But yeah, very funny. 

[yk9001]

It is sarcasm...the police have repeatedly refused to release details on their shooting investigation and autopsy results and they did not actually provide any details suggesting that the officer suspected Brown as a suspect in the robbery when the shooting occurred...yet they have no issue doing a document dump trying to frame Michael Brown as a thug. Wonder why that is?

 

The kid did a pretty good job of it himself.

[Blarg]

haha

 

That wasn't my sister's car by the way, it was my cousin's. And it was my aunt, not grandmother.  But yeah, very funny. 

 

What the hell are you doing in your cousin's car... never mind, don't want to know.

[HeavenlyHalos]

Yes we are required to deliver that information..  about any Officer involved in an incident.

But this Ferguson-deal is a fluid monster, with rioting and danger to the Officers all around.  I watched quite a bit of it today, and it seems that these media-types are instigating with their cameras.  I imagine these are very frustrated Officers right now, trying to deal with this aftermath.

 

So what they did is illegal then. Of course, nothing will happen to them for breaking the law.

[red321]

 

But this Ferguson-deal is a fluid monster, with rioting and danger to the Officers all around.  I watched quite a bit of it today, and it seems that these media-types are instigating with their cameras.  I imagine these are very frustrated Officers right now, trying to deal with this aftermath.

 

 

 

When you have a police force showing up in camouflage, driving military grade vehicles, and positioning snipers with weapons pointed directly at fellow citizens...makes blaming the media ring a little hollow. If the officers are frustrated they need to take a long hard look at their leadership and the overall attitude of the police department.

 

The police's job is to de-escalate the situation, not escalate the situation by acting like some wanna be soldiers policing Fallujah.

[Don]

Lol @ Instigating with a camera. Did they throw them at police?

[yk9001]

When you have a police force showing up in camouflage, driving military grade vehicles, and positioning snipers with weapons pointed directly at fellow citizens...makes blaming the media ring a little hollow. If the officers are frustrated they need to take a long hard look at their leadership and the overall attitude of the police department.

 

The police's job is to de-escalate the situation, not escalate the situation by acting like some wanna be soldiers policing Fallujah.

 

 

I agree with you 100% on this point, Red.  They treated citizens like insurgents.  Ri-diculous, with the fatigues and armament.  They threw a tear gas canister at a citizen who was in the yard of their house.

 

Freaking jerkwater Barney Fifes with weaponry and armament we didn't have in Iraq.

[gotbeer]

FBI: Sheriff, son cornered, assaulted driver

I guess in NM, if you can't hack it as a judge or state police officer, you are a shoo in for local Sheriff.  

[LBHalos17]

You do realize it's largely the PD who has been changing the story right? On Tuesday the chief of police was telling reporters that Brown WASNT being stopped for another crime.

And yeah, I'll admit that after everything that's happened over the past several days my opinion of Ferguson PD isn't particularly high. Including the part where they refused to interview the best eyewitness available. I don't think it should be.

As far as the officer involved in the shooting:

There doesn't seem to be any sort of dispute that there was a close quarters physical confrontation between the officer and Brown. The police line is that Brown was the aggressor and was trying to grab his gun, the other eyewitnesses indicate that the officer was the aggressor.

After which Brown tried to flee. And the accounts at that point are that the officer started shooting at him and his friend, hit Brown in the back, Brown turned around (according to eyewitnesses with his hands up yelling that he was unarmed, don't shoot) and the officer shot him several more times killing him.

So without "condemning" the officer, I'll say that shooting and killing the presumably unarmed person(since the PD isn't even claiming he was armed at this point) from a distance of roughly 35 feet is not a scenario that I have much faith in his actions being justified in.

Not reading past your first statement..  He said, "It's an on-going investigation."  Which means that new information is continually coming-in.

[LBHalos17]

So what they did is illegal then. Of course, nothing will happen to them for breaking the law.

It's not a law, it's Department policy.  Theirs may be different; especially in the middle of a riot.

[LBHalos17]

When you have a police force showing up in camouflage, driving military grade vehicles, and positioning snipers with weapons pointed directly at fellow citizens...makes blaming the media ring a little hollow. If the officers are frustrated they need to take a long hard look at their leadership and the overall attitude of the police department.

 

The police's job is to de-escalate the situation, not escalate the situation by acting like some wanna be soldiers policing Fallujah.

I would agree that the leadership has been seriously lacking there but, how would you like us to respond to an angry mob trying to loot and burn down your business?  A show of force is proven to de-escalate situations better than regular Officers trying to be heard over a loud, angry mob.

 

This is the day and age of "North Hollywood" shootouts, and psychos bringing AR's/AK's to schools to kill kids..  Not to mention that assaults on Officers are way up as well.  It has been decided that Officers need to be playing on a level field at least.  We bring armor to hostage-rescues, etc. because we are expected to win.

[LBHalos17]

Lol @ Instigating with a camera. Did they throw them at police?

Did you watch how many of the protestors became part of an enraged-mob as soon as the cameras started rolling?  Lol if it was your store burning, right?

[LBHalos17]

FBI: Sheriff, son cornered, assaulted driver

I guess in NM, if you can't hack it as a judge or state police officer, you are a shoo in for local Sheriff.  

 

Cops, Sheriffs, and even CHP Officers (just kidding) are human too.  We all respond to "road-rage" differently..  I was being raged by a guy in a truck on the 405 a few weeks ago.  I don't know what set him off, as I signaled to pass him and didn't cut him off after.  He was pissed!  Tail-gating and speeding-up to cut me off a few times.

 

I had my gun in my lap (just in case), but never waved it at him.  I slowed-down a bit, and let him have "his" road back.  I get to see more angry, stupid drivers than this NM Sheriff I imagine..

[LBHalos17]

Hey everybody!

I'm happy to be able to bring my experience into these conversations, and am trying to respect/not be too condescending toward opposing opinions.  I like responding to the posts in here, because a lot of it is misunderstanding about policies and procedures.

 

I experienced some A-hole Cops using excessive force as a teenager skateboarding, so I try to remember those run-ins when I deal with the Public on the job.

 

But, lemme know if I'm spamming too much!  

[mp170.6]

The tiny suburb of Doraville, GA has a SWAT vehicle.  http://reason.com/blog/2014/08/13/how-a-suburban-swat-team-sees-itself

 

So is this overkill LBHalos17?

 

[Amazing Larry]

Loud noises!!!

[Spirit]

More destruction overnight.  Stores looted of all their inventory. 

 

 

 

Stupid police.

[gotbeer]

Hey everybody!

I'm happy to be able to bring my experience into these conversations, and am trying to respect/not be too condescending toward opposing opinions.  I like responding to the posts in here, because a lot of it is misunderstanding about policies and procedures.

 

I experienced some A-hole Cops using excessive force as a teenager skateboarding, so I try to remember those run-ins when I deal with the Public on the job.

 

But, lemme know if I'm spamming too much!  

 

I like when you post.  But then I'm strange.

[Jay]

Let's burn and loot this neighborhood!

 

Then go back to Kansas City where we came from.