Bourjos traded to Cardinals

[nate]

Dipoto is the Obama of GMs.  All the hope and change turned into the same old horseshit and false promises.

Edited November 22, 2013 by nate

[jshep]

Wait, are we really using the whole "David Freese just felt too much pressure to produce in front of his hometown fans" as an excuse now?

 

We're all aware that he's played his ENTIRE career in front of those same fans, right? Did the pressure to produce in front of them magically become greater in between 2012 and 2013?

[Cdaniel]

Butcher can fix Salas

[Angels Never Die]

**** this trade, it sells Bourjos' value too short, Freese is just an okay third baseman at best, and he's going to be 31. This trade makes us older and Bourjos is a more valuable player than him.  Screw this.

Edited November 22, 2013 by Angels Never Die

[Tyler]

Wait, are we really using the whole "David Freese just felt too much pressure to produce in front of his hometown fans" as an excuse now?

 

We're all aware that he's played his ENTIRE career in front of those same fans, right? Did the pressure to produce in front of them magically become greater in between 2012 and 2013?

 

I don't want to defend this move, but yeah... pressure/expectations increases when you perform at a high level in the postseason. Freese obviously was hampered by injuries last season, but whose to say they won't come back to haunt him?

[fan_since79]

I just sold a math book I paid $220 to a book store for $40.

I know this feeling.

 

There was a lady on Antiques Roadshow the other day whose father bought a painting for $4,000 and left it to her, and she found out it was worth at least 150 grand. 

 

The Angels never have that kind of luck, or anything close to it. They're more like Charlie Brown, who gets rocks in his Halloween bag.

[Tyler]

As a sidenote, there aren't very many quality 3b out there.

[WallyWorld]

can the superfans please stop with the 'it's only the first move, you have to wait and see what else the team does" crap.

 

i mean, no shit. we all get that.  we're all doing all that we can now, which is evaluating this particular trade for what it is.  of course there will be other moves to follow.

[Mark68]

There was a lady on Antiques Roadshow the other day whose father bought a painting for $4,000 and left it to her, and she found out it was worth at least 150 grand. 

 

The Angels never have that kind of luck, or anything close to it. They're more like Charlie Brown, who gets rocks in his Halloween bag.

Or tries to kick the football only to have Lucy pull it away at the last minute.

[Dave Saltzer]

Okay Dave I see where you are coming from.

 

I mentioned earlier in a different response to another poster that perhaps this is a move towards pacifying Trout and if it is I sincerely hope we sign him to a long-term extension soon.

 

As far as insurance at 1B, Calhoun did play a bit there in the Minors but I never heard how he panned out. Beyond that Efren Navarro is high on the depth chart so although Trumbo would be a solid backup there are others available.

 

I guess my main problem is that Bourjos plays the more demanding defensive position better than Freese plays the less-demanding defensive position. Both of them provide different kinds of offensive output that, when you sum it all up, is not that entirely different with Freese getting the slight edge. Bourjos will cost less total dollars in salary and is controlled one year longer.

 

So for me it is Bourjos >> Freese. Then there is the Salas/Grichuk swap which again doesn't totally make sense from a value perspective but does from a depth perspective.

I am, of course, a Bourjos fan and I do agree that we have added to a position of weakness on our team at 3B but I feel we gave up too much to obtain that incremental upgrade. I hope that it works out for us in the long run.

 

Thanks for the clarification Dave!

Ettin,

 

The Grichuk for Salas part had me a bit bothered too. That's why I'm not totally in favor of it. However, from the STL side, I can see them thinking that they are taking on more risk in Borjous because he has had more seasons with injuries. So, they wanted to get more from a prospect who would give them OF depth. Bourjos and Grichuk is way too much for Freese alone, so, we got back a RP to balance it all out.

[nate]

can the superfans please stop with the 'it's only the first move, you have to wait and see what else the team does" crap.

 

i mean, no shit. we all get that.  we're all doing all that we can now, which is evaluating this particular trade for what it is.  of course there will be other moves to follow.

 

"Never judge a whole from a glimpse."

 

This trade sucks but we shouldn't declare the season over just yet.

[Sciosciapath]

It's safe to say the honeymoon with Dipoto is over?

[tdawg87]

I hear Arte just did a canonball from 250 feet. He's about to make a big......what's that word? Oh yeah "ripple".

[CAngels11]

Wait, are we really using the whole "David Freese just felt too much pressure to produce in front of his hometown fans" as an excuse now?

 

We're all aware that he's played his ENTIRE career in front of those same fans, right? Did the pressure to produce in front of them magically become greater in between 2012 and 2013?

 

Yes he did play his entire(4 years basically) career in front on these fas, but once he had his coming out year in 2011 and then his career year in 2012 on top of being a world series hero….Fans expected him to be that stud player...  So possibly that pressure on top of playing in an amazing baseball town like St Louis  got to him and lead to a decline in his numbers last year…

[Lifetime]

wow, someone is really reaching here

[tennischmp]

Yes he did play his entire(4 years basically) career in front on these fas, but once he had his coming out year in 2011 and then his career year in 2012 on top of being a world series hero….Fans expected him to be that stud player...  So possibly that pressure on top of playing in an amazing baseball town like St Louis  got to him and lead to a decline in his numbers last year…

So what do you think the Angel fans are going to be expecting from him? 2011, 2012 numbers not 2013

[redoctober]

This is what Keith Law said:

 

About Grichuck: "But age is about all he has left in his favor after four years of injuries and awful OBPs. He has never been able to recognize off-speed stuff enough to get into favorable counts, never mind draw actual walks -- his 26 unintentional walks this year were a career high, and it took 540 plate appearances to get them."

 

"Bourjos is a near-zero at the plate, however, with no power, poor plate discipline, and a lot of strikeouts for a guy who could pick up 10 or more hits per year just with his speed if he puts the ball in play. His 2011 season was a huge outlier, unlikely to ever be repeated, but his glove and legs make him a potential 2-WAR player if he even hits an empty .260-.270 for a full season. "

 

"...most scouts think he's an 80-grade defender who can't hit..."

 

"As for Salas, the Angels desperately need bullpen arms, and he is a fairly generic right-hander who has ninth-inning experience (woo-hoo) and three pitches, but nothing plus, meaning he has to throw strikes to be effective. His slider is better than his changeup, and lefties tore him apart in 2013, but the change is good enough that I think he can be a seventh- or eighth-inning guy if he throws strikes."

 

Ultimately:

 

"Bourjos is a lock for 1.5 WAR or more because of the glove and speed, while Freese has a wider range of outcomes, and has to stay healthy enough to get to his 15-18 homer power to make this deal work out for the Angels in the long run."

 

 

http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/keith-law/post?id=1533

[Lifetime]

Keith Law is FOS

[redoctober]

Oh, and I'm guessing Grichuck wasn't considered to be a part of a our new system moving forward. Our old system was mainly: swing at everything and never walk. I've already read that he won't even be considered one of the Cardinal's top 10 prospects.

Edited November 22, 2013 by redoctober

[70runner]

So a bit of perspective:

 

28 pages and no AO

 

Angels have added ANOTHER aging field player that we HOPE will rebound

 

Whatever Dipoto does, Mikey will mold the parts into the slow starting, underperforming crew we've become accustomed to

[SoWhat]

@JeffFletcherOCR: Dipoto said the #Angels major league OFs, plus emergence of Zack Bornstein, made Grichuk expendable.

[HaloCory22]

Seriously, where is AO? I'm worried.

[bloodbrother]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 6m

A lot of folks in the industry LOVE the Bourjos-Freese trade for the Cardinals.

[Lifetime]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 6m

A lot of folks in the industry LOVE the Bourjos-Freese trade for the Cardinals.

[HaloCory22]

Buster Olney ‏@Buster_ESPN 6m

A lot of folks in the industry LOVE the Bourjos-Freese trade for the Cardinals.