redoctober

Depth Depth Depth. The more the merrier.

Winning does draw fans. Do you think the 2012 Angels would have been better without Pujols and Wilson? Does a crappy team with Pujols or without Pujols = a huge tv contract? It's simple. The Angels had a team on the downturn due to a terrible farm system. In order to keep the team competitive on the field and off while restocking that farm system, they had to go out and get some stars. And the Seattle comparison is interesting, though by my hasty research, there is roughly a population difference of 100k when comparing the greater Seattle area and OC/LA, not to mention the corporate hubs of Torrance and Irvine. (Though, Nintendo does own 55% of the Mariners.) Not that I have any expertise in such things.

My argument though, is that the ROI on Tanaka is far higher than Garza. Sure, the cost may be $75m more, but the stadium will be filled when Tanaka pitches and it could open up more advertising and marketing deals with the Japanese community here and abroad.

This is going to be short and sweet. Moreno is a business man. The signings of Pujols, Wilson, and Hamilton were important for getting attention (Hamilton specifically took airtime away from the Dodgers) and keeping the Angels interesting with star power while the farm system gets rebuilt. Tanaka, if posted, is the only player that has that same potential by drawing in fans and media (the Ichiro effect) alike to increase revenue.

I think it is a bit short sighted to say that the Angels tried to buy a championship. Let me explain. When Dipoto took over the team we had... 1. The worst lower farm system in baseball. Remember, at this time we had no overseas presence due to our mismanagement. 2. A higher farm system that was graduating one guaranteed stud (Trout), one promising stud (Trumbo), and one possible stud (Bourjos) 3. A few solid players (e.g. Aybar, Kendrick, Callaspo, Izturis) 4. A good aging player (Hunter) and a terrible aging player (Wells) 5. A semi-young stud pitcher, an aging stud pitcher, and an inconsistent pitcher - and no young depth (poor Dipoto has only his younger self to blame for that, ha) outside of Richards. (Chatwood doesn't count) Now I have no experience in professional sports, but I would assume that they had two options: 1. Keep the team as is and start rebuilding the farm system, hoping that it will start providing depth in 3-4 years. 2. Bring in free agents to keep the team competitive while rebuilding the farm system. Two additional observations that are important: 1. We had failed in free agency since Vlad and Bartolo. (ex. Crawford, Texeira, etc.) 2. The LA entertainment market was changing with the Dodgers looking to sell to someone with deep pockets and the baseball market was changing with huge TV contracts Because this team is a business, Arte and Dipoto had to make a decision based not just on winning but running a successful business in a very competitive market. 1. So they signed Pujols and Wilson (Vlad and Bartolo 2.0), cementing their ability to sign a huge tv deal and exciting a region that has a lot of entertainment options and popularity contest issues. 2. They avoided other star pitchers because all but one have failed with their new teams (CC). Which is exactly why they wouldn't pay Greinke. 3. With no minor league depth to trade from, they had to sign older pitchers and trade for damaged goods, hoping that they would turn it around and keep producing. (#2 and #3 are moneyball-like moves, market inefficiencies. Free agent star pitchers are overvalued, old and damaged pitchers are undervalued.) Now, I understand that the Angels haven't been competitive outside of a few runs both years, but they had, and have, a better chance of being competitive with the team they have now than with the team they would have had. All the while they are rebuilding their farm system to restock once Weaver, Hamilton, Aybar, Kendrick, Wilson, etc. are starting to slide. - Ultimately I think the current state of the team can be summed up as such: 1. Bad farm system Inherited by Dipoto 2. A bad free agent market with aging stars and nothing to build with.

I think they have to tender all of the pitchers for depths sake. Williams has struggled at times, but he has also come up big. I would trust him in a game in Arlington over Richards. Hanson had a bad season and if this was another team, would probably be gone. But who is going to start if one of our three (Weaver, Wilson, Richards) gets injured and another has to skip a start. We need pitchers who can come in and make spot starts when needed. We need 8 starters. 1. Weaver 2. Wilson 3. Richards 4. Williams 5. Blanton 6. Hanson 7. Trade/FA 8. Trade/FA

Industry people also didn't know who Mike Trout was.

This is probably the most sane review of the trade: http://mlb.si.com/2013/11/22/david-freese-peter-bourjos-angels-cardinals-trade/?eref=sihp

I know, terrible logic. I was just trying to point out that the opinions of the "industry" are just opinions. I'd rather have trades that help my favorite team than ones that make the "industry" people happy.

I bet that same industry thought it was a great move for the Twins to release David Ortiz.

Ok, I'll answer them: 1. Yes, I deeply care about the farm system. The fact is that the state of the farm system is due to terrible drafting 3-5 years ago and a mutual love affair between players who swing at everything and don't walk and coaches who teach the same. 2. I like David Freese because he plays 3B, has a good OBP, and has a history, albeit short, of coming up with key hits. 3. Not sure. That is the big question. The problem is that pitching is scarce, highly valuable, and no one is willing to trade it. The only guys you can get who are still young are the ones who are going to start losing it. Jason Vargas got a 4 year deal for $32 million! Bartolo Colon is still a "wanted" asset even though he is on roids! That is how valuable pitching is right now. There is no way Grichuck was going to get us any pitching prospect worth a lick. 4. No, our defense was terrible. Part of that was luck, part of that was terrible effort. We need new bodies on this team.

Oh, and I'm guessing Grichuck wasn't considered to be a part of a our new system moving forward. Our old system was mainly: swing at everything and never walk. I've already read that he won't even be considered one of the Cardinal's top 10 prospects.

This is what Keith Law said: About Grichuck: "But age is about all he has left in his favor after four years of injuries and awful OBPs. He has never been able to recognize off-speed stuff enough to get into favorable counts, never mind draw actual walks -- his 26 unintentional walks this year were a career high, and it took 540 plate appearances to get them." "Bourjos is a near-zero at the plate, however, with no power, poor plate discipline, and a lot of strikeouts for a guy who could pick up 10 or more hits per year just with his speed if he puts the ball in play. His 2011 season was a huge outlier, unlikely to ever be repeated, but his glove and legs make him a potential 2-WAR player if he even hits an empty .260-.270 for a full season. " "...most scouts think he's an 80-grade defender who can't hit..." "As for Salas, the Angels desperately need bullpen arms, and he is a fairly generic right-hander who has ninth-inning experience (woo-hoo) and three pitches, but nothing plus, meaning he has to throw strikes to be effective. His slider is better than his changeup, and lefties tore him apart in 2013, but the change is good enough that I think he can be a seventh- or eighth-inning guy if he throws strikes." Ultimately: "Bourjos is a lock for 1.5 WAR or more because of the glove and speed, while Freese has a wider range of outcomes, and has to stay healthy enough to get to his 15-18 homer power to make this deal work out for the Angels in the long run." http://insider.espn.go.com/blog/keith-law/post?id=1533

Its called shuffling around players in order to get better. We didn't have a third baseman, we had too many outfielders, and most of our lineup (particularly Trumbo) is inept at timely hitting. From a 2 for 2 standpoint, it isn't that good of a trade. But when you look at the actual situation, it does make sense. We didn't need Bourjos and Grichuck. We needed a 3rd baseman and pitching depth.

I just registered to defend Chuck: 1. Peter has had one solid season, two seasons where he had under 200 at bats, and one season where he was injured and played in 55 games. He's never had an OBP above .333. And though he plays a mean OF, it is a low value position right now. And a bad hamstring is not particularly helpful when your entire value is your speed. 2. David Freese has had two solid seasons, one season with under 300 at bats, and one bad season where he played despite nagging injuries. He plays 3B, one of the most valued positions. Oh, and he has a history, if short, of coming up with big hits. 3. Grichuk has been injured throughout his minor league career, plays a low valued position that the Angels have plenty of for the forseeable future, and isn't ranked highly outside of our terrible minor league system. 4. Salas has had one great season and two bad seasons in the majors. If I came to the Angels looking to trader for Peter, I would not value him very highly. He is a gamble, that could work out, but doesn't have much of a track record and doesn't get on base.