Here is why Trumbo will never yield a good return in trade.

[Angel Oracle]

Career SUB .700 OPS after the ASB!

Only in 2011 did he get to .700 after the ASB, and that was just .744.

 

That AT BEST will yield a DECENT #4 starter 

 

Post-ASB slumping is why I never wanted to give up so much for Haren (2006-2009, SIGNIFICANTLY ABOVE 4.00 post-ASB ERA).

Edited October 1, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[Tyler]

Beautiful, another Mike Scioscia thread.

[Angel Oracle]

Where did I say Scioscia?

[Troll Daddy]

Career SUB .700 OPS after the ASB!

Only in 2011 did he get to .700 after the ASB, and that was just .744.

 

That AT BEST will yield a DECENT #4 starter 

 

Post-ASB slumping is why I never wanted to give up so much for Haren (2006-2009, SIGNIFICANTLY ABOVE 4.00 post-ASB ERA).

 

 

Thank god you're not our GM.

 

 

Sell Sell Sell

[jshep]

I was going to guess the answer to this was:

 

He's a career .250/.299/.469 hitter with minimal defensive value, who is about to get expensive as he goes through arbitration, which has a tendency to overvalue power numbers.

 

He's a decent player, but that's about it. If you can get a Jason Vargas type more or less with a couple years of control   left, or an okay pitching prospect or two for him, I would do it.

Edited October 1, 2013 by jshep

[tdawg87]

That might be a concern to some GM's, but most of them will look at the overall picture and the value they could get over a full season. Trumbo will provide a positive value to a team looking to compete in desperate need of offense. Teams like Kansas City and Pittsburgh, to name two.

[Angel Oracle]

He will indeed only truly supply value for a team desperate for offense, but they will have to learn to live with his subpar post-
ASB hitting year after year.

[Jimmag]

I just turned over the Halo calendar and Trumbo is pictured for October. He is not going anywhere for at least a month.

He is one of a few Angels who can break through the marine layer. Keep him.

[ettin]

He will indeed only truly supply value for a team desperate for offense, but they will have to learn to live with his subpar post-

ASB hitting year after year.

 

Well, first of all, another team having to deal with his sub-par post-ASB hitting is not our concern.

 

Secondly, despite his other flaws, power like Mark's does not grow on trees, especially in a supposedly post-PED's era. Trumbo is consistently putting up 30+ HR seasons along with a steady 2+ WAR per season.

 

That has value, especially considering that Mark is entering arbitration for the first time. I know many of you look at what he would bring back in terms of Major League players but the reality is that Mark would bring back a significant pitching prospect (think Archie Bradley for instance) plus another prospect or two.

 

Our greatest haul will come through prospects, not other MLB players. Although there is always inherent risk with acquiring prospects, their long term value and cost-control is what will help turn this team around in future years.

[Angels]

I was going to guess the answer to this was:

 

He's a career .250/.299/.469 hitter with minimal defensive value, who is about to get expensive as he goes through arbitration, which has a tendency to overvalue power numbers.

 

He's a decent player, but that's about it. If you can get a Jason Vargas type more or less with a couple years of control   left, or an okay pitching prospect or two for him, I would do it.

 

I wouldn't trade Trumbo for a #4-#5 type starter (which is what Vargas is). If the Angels are going to compete next season, they're going to need to do more than just fill the rotation with a few back-end starters.

 

That said, I'm not sure the Angels could even get something better... teams are smarter when it comes to evaluating players. Maybe 10 years ago the Angels could've fleeced some team enamored with those HR and RBI, doubt that happens nowadays. Though I wonder if Dayton Moore or Ruben Amaro have anything the Angels want...they are the ideal candidates to attempt to fleece.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Angels

[Angels]

Well, first of all, another team having to deal with his sub-par post-ASB hitting is not our concern.

 

Secondly, despite his other flaws, power like Mark's does not grow on trees, especially in a supposedly post-PED's era. Trumbo is consistently putting up 30+ HR seasons along with a steady 2+ WAR per season.

 

That has value, especially considering that Mark is entering arbitration for the first time. I know many of you look at what he would bring back in terms of Major League players but the reality is that Mark would bring back a significant pitching prospect (think Archie Bradley for instance) plus another prospect or two.

 

Our greatest haul will come through prospects, not other MLB players. Although there is always inherent risk with acquiring prospects, their long term value and cost-control is what will help turn this team around in future years.

 

Even with those HR, he's a league average player. That still obviously has value...but let's not overrate the guy here and think he can bring back a Grade A pitching prospect. 

 

I would trade Trumbo for Bradley, doubt the D-Backs would...

Edited October 1, 2013 by Angels

[ettin]

Even with those HR, he's a league average player. That still obviously has value...but let's not overrate the guy here and think he can bring back a Grade A pitching prospect. 

 

I would trade Trumbo for Bradley, doubt the D-Backs would...

 

With all due respect, league average hitters don't hit 30 HR's. You would be lucky to get a dozen home runs out of a league average hitter. I don't think I'm overrating him a bit and you have to seriously consider his price tag right now which is going to be probably about $1.5 million for 2014 which is dirt cheap. That is the point that people are missing is Trumbo's value.

 

There are many small market teams out there (and large one's too) that would love to have a 30+ HR hitter at an affordable price for 2-3 years. Try to find a 30+ HR hitter on the free agent market and you'll be paying through the nose (at least $10,000,000 +). That is my point of why Mark will net us a good pitching prospect on the level of Bradley, Lee, et. al.

[Angel Dog and Beer]

That AT BEST will yield a DECENT #4 starter 

 

But Troll Daddy said we could get Price for Trumbo. Now I'm confused.

[Angels]

I said he's a league average player (the overall package).

 

You're only looking at HR while ignoring everything else.

 

Trumbo has value.

 

That said, I don't think there is one team out there willing to give up a Grade A pitching prospect for Mark Trumbo. Perhaps Dipoto can prove me wrong here and make a great trade, I just don't think it's going to happen.

[ten ocho recon scout]

That might be a concern to some GM's, but most of them will look at the overall picture and the value they could get over a full season. Trumbo will provide a positive value to a team looking to compete in desperate need of offense. Teams like Kansas City and Pittsburgh, to name two.

I thought for sure pittsburg would move on him, even before the rumor on deadline day popped up. It still makes a ton of sense for both sides.

I think he's definetely traded this winter, and disagree w AO. Of course he won't bring back a cole type pitcher. But I think we can get at least a mid rotation starter. He'll never be an on base machine, but I think one of these years things will click, and he'll be an average on base guy with plus plus power.

[SoWhat]

Trumbo is OBVIOUSLY not gonna fetch any high end starters on his own. If you package him with someone like Calhoun or Bourjos or some prospect then there's a good possibility you can get a top of the rotation arm or someone who has the potential to.

Edited October 1, 2013 by SoWhat

[Angels]

I think some teams would give up too much for Trumbo. Good GM's find the suckers.  

 

Time for Dipoto to show his worth...

[ettin]

I said he's a league average player (the overall package).

 

You're only looking at HR while ignoring everything else.

 

Trumbo has value.

 

That said, I don't think there is one team out there willing to give up a Grade A pitching prospect for Mark Trumbo. Perhaps Dipoto can prove me wrong here and make a great trade, I just don't think it's going to happen.

 

In my original post that you responded to I was quite clear that Trumbo has other flaws and have considered them in this discussion. I am not ignoring those things, I just think you are missing the fact that he provides average defense in combination with the massive power and poor OBP/plate discipline and that still is going to be valuable to many teams. We will just have to agree to disagree and hope that, IF, Mark is traded that we obtain good value.

[Angels Never Die]

Are there any organizations left that are dumb enough to overvalue players like him anymore?

[Angel Oracle]

Let's talk about Dayton Moore and KC.

 

Of course, their top two pitching prospects are Ventura and Zimmer.

Ventura pitched in AAA for 134 innings and then pitched 16 innings for the Royals late in 2013.

He MIGHT be ready to be a #5 starter at the beginning of 2014, but the innings will need to be watched.  

Zimmer was only drafted 16 months back, and just got to AA late in 2013.

He's likely 1 to 1.5 seasons away.

 

They do also have two relievers that could interest us greatly, as they are loaded in the pen.

Ex-Halos prospect Will Smith had a ridiculously low WHIP in 33 innings for the Royals pen, although the ERA was just over 3.00. 

Luke Hochevar finally found himself as a potential 7th/8th inning guy in 2013.   WHIP was under 1.00, ERA was under 2.00, and he had 82 Ks in 70 innings out of the Royals pen.   However, he may be a FA as of now.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Angel Oracle

[Angels]

I'm not missing the fact that he has value. I think Trumbo is a league average player who can hit many home runs. As I said, that has value. 

 

But this is what you wrote "but the reality is that Mark would bring back a significant pitching prospect (think Archie Bradley for instance) plus another prospect or two."

 

That's where we pretty much disagree mostly. I don't think Trumbo is going to fetch a top-10 prospect in all of baseball PLUS a few other prospects to boot. I think you way, way overrate Trumbo's worth (both as a player and his trade value).

 

I am hoping Dipoto proves me wrong.

[Mudville]

Trumbo has the 5th highest amount of strikeouts and of those he has the fewest walks and lowest obp and ops.

He is not really worth much on the open market.

[Ohtaniland]

Trumbo could make a Monster splash in Colorado with Helton retiring. Colorado's Coors Field would be a perfect match for Trumbo's power as he could hit 45-50 home runs and play 1B fulltime instead of being bounced around here like a yo yo. I would ask for Rex Brothers and or Nolan Arenado.

[NrM]

I doubt trumbo will get us anything more than a 4 or 5 starter now.

[Mudville]

Trumbo could make a Monster splash in Colorado with Helton retiring. Colorado's Coors Field would be a perfect match for Trumbo's power as he could hit 45-50 home runs and play 1B fulltime instead of being bounced around here like a yo yo. I would ask for Rex Brothers and or Nolan Arenado.

Trumbo has no problem with hitting a baseball out when he gets a hold of one. He could could hit 45-50 in Anaheim if it were not for the fact he is not a good hitter. His home run totals this year were not curtailed by marine layer but striking out 184 times. Coors field is not going to magicly bolster his contact rates. Edited October 2, 2013 by Mudville