Angels release Ryan Madson

[HaloNation]

You guys realize it was a cheap one year contract right?

 

He was hardly a colossal waste.  It was a risk that didn't pan out.

[Amazing Larry]

Teams and companies set up separate accounts to mitigate payroll costs (or in the case of other types of business-other risks) should a player go on the DL for extended periods of time. They follow the same insurance principles when funding that account to cover potential risks. This is a separate account and budget from payroll. Maybe it's you who doesn't know what self insure means.

To me this still means that the Angels still paid $3.5 million on a guy who didn't play on MLB game for them.

[AZMike]

To me this still means that the Angels still paid $3.5 million on a guy who didn't play on MLB game for them.

 

Ryan Madson got paid nearly $14M dollars to not pitch for two years. Boras is a wizard.

[fan_since79]

What does an agent usually make, 10%? I can't remember. 

[Homebrewer]

Teams and companies set up separate accounts to mitigate payroll costs (or in the case of other types of business-other risks) should a player go on the DL for extended periods of time. They follow the same insurance principles when funding that account to cover potential risks. This is a separate account and budget from payroll. Maybe it's you who doesn't know what self insure means.

No wonder you are such a Scioscia fan. You both have great talent at blabbering on and saying absolutely nothing.

They set up a separate account with Arte's money to cover stuff so it doesn't come out of another account, also set up with Arte's money.

You obviously know that they do this for luxury tax reasons, and all the money comes from Arte.

[Lifetime]

And in reality, they pay for the contracts for DL players through continuing insurance premiums to an insurance company.

Regardless, 3.5m is not a large risk in baseball dollars. It was a reasonable flyer that didn't work out.

 

[Lifetime]

No wonder you are such a Scioscia fan. You both have great talent at blabbering on and saying absolutely nothing.

They set up a separate account with Arte's money to cover stuff so it doesn't come out of another account, also set up with Arte's money.

You obviously know that they do this for luxury tax reasons, and all the money comes from Arte.

no you really should look into what self insuring means.

[yk9001]

Hahaha. Awesome.

This is as good as the time Lifetime gave everyone a lesson in golf.

[Tyler]

So.... Ryan Madson.

[Chuck]

I cleaned up the shit pile on aisle four up and I've decided to put Lifetime on a timeout for a while. 

 

So carry on about Ryan Madson. 

[Caralho]

As much as it is true that Madson was a decent signing for the money, depending on him to be the closer at that point might not have been too smart. Dipoto has had trouble with the pitching staff and this is just another example. You can cut him slack for one move here or there but Madson, Burnett, Hanson, Blanton. Too many poor moves.

[Taylor]

LT is right folks. 3.5M is pennies in the baseball world.

 

This is basically a non-event. Most of you guys are just looking for something to complain about.

[Chimi]

What should have happened was Madson being signed to the major league minimum with incentives that reached $3.5 Million.  Even if the incentives were small.  But between Madson and Blanton, the Angels got hosed for about $10 Million this year.

[EDinTUSTIN]

Taylor, we don't have far to look seeing as how this season is going. I think more of the searching is for something to cheer about other than Trout, Weaver, and Calhoun.

[Tyler]

Now it makes more sense to me why we traded Callaspo. There's your $3.5M covered.

[Docwaukee]

It should come a no surprise that the last four years' bullpens have been the four worst statistically of any in the MS era. Last years was disappointing but mildly understandable for a first year GM that had already spent a ton of money in other areas.

To bring a similar situation for the second year in a row is a massive failure.

MS teams that have been successful play and win a lot of close games and are heavily reliant upon the bullpen to be very good. It's the gm's job to know his manager's strengths and weaknesses and put the types of players on the field that maximize the former and minimize the latter.

the madson signing was a nice low risk high reward move.......for a team that already had a strong pen. The problem was that they really really needed him to be a big part of the team.

they need a captain of the bullpen. they have had none for 4 years now. someone who is very very good to get the last 3-4 outs. not just a good pitcher for the end of games, but an actual closer.

don't get me wrong, I am a big fan of advanced metrics, but the one place I think that most metrics tend to undervalue is for the back end of the bullpen. WPA does a pretty good job imo and it needs to be given the proper attention.

The halos total wpa the last three seasons? -2.96

Not only are the last 9 outs paramount, but putting the team in a position to come back and steal a win is super big.

I get that it's not the sabermetric way to spend a ton of money on the back end of a pen, and I like what the last few drafts have done with a heavy focus on pitching and in particular bullpen depth, but if this team is going to have any chance to win the next two to three years then you have to bridge the game and get some arms for late in the game.

Over spending on FA offense isn't a great idea, but it compunds the stupidity if you aren't going to make those potential leads hold up. And the theory of spending a ton of money on a pen being a bad thing is inconsistent if you go out and blow wads of cash in other areas.

[Richard]

There was risks with this signing, unfortunate it didn't work out.

[Tank]

Sadly, the ball was not coming out of Maddy's hand very well. Time to just tip our cap to this mighty warrior and turn the page.

[vlad27]

As much as it is true that Madson was a decent signing for the money, depending on him to be the closer at that point might not have been too smart. Dipoto has had trouble with the pitching staff and this is just another example. You can cut him slack for one move here or there but Madson, Burnett, Hanson, Blanton. Too many poor moves.

I still remember the great day all 4 of these guys were introduced at that press conference ..........

[EE_]

Take a look at the free agent class of relief pitchers last year.

 

Rafael Soriano: $28M, 46.1IP, 2.91 ERA

Jonathan Broxton (DL): $21M, 27IP, 4.33 ERA

Jeremy Affeldt (DL): $18M, 33.1IP, 3.51 ERA

Mike Adams (DL): $12M, 25IP, 3.96 ERA (shoulder surgery)

Kyuji Fujikawa (DL); $9M, 12IP, 5.25 ERA (TJ surgery)

Sean Burnett (DL): $8M, 9.2IP, 0.93 ERA (elbow surgery)

 

So 5 out of the 6 top paid free agent relief pitchers are currently on the DL. None of those 5 have come close to earning their contracts falling short by either effectiveness or innings pitched. Soriano has pitched well but at $14M per season he's no bargain for his production. His K/9 is way down to 6.8 which doesn't bode well for next year either.

 

Good luck trying to buy a pen. The teams with the best pens built them from the farm or supplemented them by picking up "projects" and getting big production from them. Sometimes both. The sack of shit we have impersonating a pitching coach could try for 30 years without having the success of a Maddux, Young, Hickey, Price, Duncan etc. Tampa quickly saw that they had a lemon and let him go after one season. We're stuck with him for 7 years now. It might be hard to find a more apt name for a pitching coach than "Butcher". Why does a team that aspires to be the best have to settle for someone's "good buddy" with no track record (and now a terrible 8 year track record)?

 

Would any of the arms that Dipoto traded really be helping this pen right now? Pena (5.19 BB/9 in AA), Hellweg (13BB, 3k's in 10.2 IP with the Brewers) or Roach (5.24 K/9 in AA)? I doubt it. Would Chatwood be anything other than the erratic walk/hit machine he was with the Angels? He had almost as many walks (71) as strikeouts (74) with us. A strikeout rate of 4.69 K/9? Someone taught him how to pitch.

 

This problem wasn't created in a short time (and certainly not in the less than 2 years of the Dipoto GM) and it won't be fixed in a short time. Drafting almost exclusively pitchers in a pitching heavy draft seems smart and a good start. Bringing in pitching coaches with a long track record of success handling young pitching should be the next step. It's not as easy or quick as opening the checkbook and purchasing one or two decrepit old arms on the free agent market.

[Inside Pitch]

You guys realize it was a cheap one year contract right?

 

He was hardly a colossal waste.  It was a risk that didn't pan out.

 

 

It was a waste because Dipoto actually seemed to COUNT on him to be here.  He never was....

[Inside Pitch]

Signing Madson was a good bet. I liked the decision process that lead to the signing.

Yes, it did not work. However, it made sense at the time risk/reward wise.

To the best of my knowledge Arte still self-insures MLB contracts.

 

 

Didn't make sense not to have someone else you KNEW would be there.  Particularly since the other arm they added to the pen was also unable to throw when they signed him..  A GM of a MLB team can't go into a season hoping that every best case scenario pans out.  That's Bill Bavasi level terrible.

[Inside Pitch]

Obviously it is easy to criticize the Madson signing now. Considering how overpaid Closers (with a capital C) are paid by the market I would rather the club explore deals such as Madson.

If Arte doesn't chase another 32+ former MVP candidate perhaps we could explore options that do not entail as much risk.

 

 

I agree there was merit behind the thought process -- but the lack of a safety net is all on the GM..   And honestly, it's the GM's job to make sure the team is built however he wants it to be,  If he lacks the conviction to stand up to his owner and say no -- then he really shouldn't hold the job as the final decision maker, which he said he was.

[Inside Pitch]

I don't have a problem taking a chance on Madson.  It's the ridiculous $3.5 million price tag...

 

I don't have a problem with taking a chance on Madson, it's about not having someone who you COULD count on to you know..... would actually pitch this season that left me cold.

[Inside Pitch]

I cleaned up the shit pile on aisle four up and I've decided to put Lifetime on a timeout for a while. 

 

So carry on about Ryan Madson. 

 

 

I just HAD to go play baseball and miss everything..