What’s the plan for next season

[BTH]

15 minutes ago, mmc said:

I don't care either way about Nevin since he is due a new contract.  I think firing Perry would be incredibly idiotic as he has brought in quite a bit of young talent that is making an impact both in the majors and minor leagues, has done relatively well in free agency despite being limited by Arte and hasn't given us any awful contracts that are anchors and has done well in a lot of trades, and even the ones that flopped I think were worthwhile gambles.

The concern I have with Perry is how his front office interacts with the coaching staff.

Clearly, they haven’t been on the same page. So if they can get on the same page by changing people on the coaching staff, I’m totally fine keeping Perry.

But that article Fletch wrote a couple weeks ago on the Angels pitching drop-off didn’t make Perry’s front office look that great.

[Tank]

2 hours ago, BTH said:

But that article Fletch wrote a couple weeks ago on the Angels pitching drop-off didn’t make Perry’s front office look that great.

yep, in spades.

[Angelsjunky]

The problem next year is the same as this and last: On paper, they have a pretty good team - especially the lineup. The problem is staying healthy. After the injuries of 2022, Perry tried to address this with more depth, but not only were there even more injuries than could possibly have been expected, but the depth also got hurt and/or kinda sucked. I don't know what else he could have done.

And in that sense, the same holds true for 2024. Maybe he adds an outfield bat like Bellinger, but I don't see a lot of room to improve elsewhere - at least given available free agents. And really, Bellinger is the the only free agent hitter that is close to elite, an he comes with question marks.

The point being, the "plan" depends upon health, with or without Ohtani. At least for the lineup. He'll probably add some depth pieces and maybe one upgrade bat, but his focus will be on upgrading the pitching staff: a couple starters, including one of the top guys, and a couple relievers. But the team's success in 2024 depends on health.

 

Edited September 4, 2023 by Angelsjunky

[BTH]

2 minutes ago, Angelsjunky said:

And in that sense, the same holds true for 2024. Maybe he adds an outfield bat like Bellinger, but I don't see a lot of room to improve elsewhere - at least given available free agents. 

Right now you’re looking at:

C- O’Hoppe

1B- Schanuel?

2B- Drury

3B- Rendon/Rengifo

SS- Neto

LF- Ward

CF- Trout

RF- Moniak

DH- Adell/Thaiss?

The problem there is that you are relying on a lot of players who are untrustworthy.

O’Hoppe, Schanuel, Neto, Moniak, Adell, and Thaiss aren’t fully proven and some of them have had injuries this year.

Ward is coming back from an injury that could affect him mentally in the box. Trout can’t be counted on for a full season anymore. Rendon is Rendon.

[Swordsman78]

7 hours ago, mmc said:

I'm surprised at how eager people are to point the finger at Arte, or Perry, or even Nevin for the failures of the team in August (and continuing into September).  Ultimately it was the players who completely shit the bed and way underperformed that they were capable of, and they need to bear most of the criticism and blame.  There's no excuse for them to play as poorly as they did after the trade deadline with the team we put together.  A truly epic failure on their part.

Well said.  Also some blame goes to  "some" players for not getting off the IL. 

The players we had did "sh*t the bed" but the roster from April was absolutely ravaged.  Having 4 starters go out on IL in a span of 3-4 games is 6 Sigma odds. Seemed like every series, there were new holes to plug.  No continuity at all, the entire year.

Being in the Top 3rd in IL stints in all of baseball for multiple years is a reflection of players (in some cases) just not wanting to play.  "I felt something".

I also blame the league for allowing agents to have to much control over the players.

 

[Angelsjunky]

24 minutes ago, BTH said:

Right now you’re looking at:

C- O’Hoppe

1B- Schanuel?

2B- Drury

3B- Rendon/Rengifo

SS- Neto

LF- Ward

CF- Trout

RF- Moniak

DH- Adell/Thaiss?

The problem there is that you are relying on a lot of players who are untrustworthy.

O’Hoppe, Schanuel, Neto, Moniak, Adell, and Thaiss aren’t fully proven and some of them have had injuries this year.

Ward is coming back from an injury that could affect him mentally in the box. Trout can’t be counted on for a full season anymore. Rendon is Rendon.

Yes, it is a problem, but how to fix that problem? Sign "trustworthy" players? Given payroll constraints, how do they do that, at least in a meaningful way? And given the available free agent pool, how many players qualify as both good and trustworthy? I'm not sure any do.

My point was that any path to success requires better health from players they already have. Even if Arte opens up the vault and gives Minasian a Mets-like payroll, there just aren't the free agents to meaningfully improve the lineup; it is a sad day when Cody Bellinger is the best option. Similarly, they don't have the prospects to make substantial moves to improve the lineup.

So we're back where we started: the team sinks and swims on health.

 

[No Roles]

On 9/1/2023 at 12:03 PM, Lazorko Saves said:

I don't know what ya'll mean by "rebuild".

You can't trade Trout, Rendon, or Anderson.

So "rebuild" means you're keeping those guys and trading what we have of value, for even younger, less-proven players: Neto, O'Hoppe, Sandoval, Detmers, Schanuel.

WTF do you all think that does?  Is it all about losing 100 games and getting very high draft picks for the next five years?  Or what?

you are a little crazy if you think the halos would even consider trading neto...the kid will have multiple all star appearances the seasons he is healthy !!!

[Just Sayin]

8 hours ago, mmc said:

I'm surprised at how eager people are to point the finger at Arte, or Perry, or even Nevin for the failures of the team in August (and continuing into September).  Ultimately it was the players who completely shit the bed and way underperformed that they were capable of, and they need to bear most of the criticism and blame.  There's no excuse for them to play as poorly as they did after the trade deadline with the team we put together.  A truly epic failure on their part.

It all starts at the top….and whatever Nevin was selling, nobody was buying.  

You’re a manager? You gotta get people to buy-in.  

“There is no excuse for them to play as poorly as they did after the trade deadline with the team we put together”

There is no excuse.  But there is a reason.

NO BUY IN

Just sayin’

[Blarg]

The team they are fielding is the Salt Lake Bees with Rengifo and Grichuck as the veterans. Let that sink in before you start sayin stuff. 

[fan_since79]

The sheer number of injuries is mind boggling. I don't believe in curses but you have to wonder sometimes. 

Atlanta has like three guys on the IL, has the same lineup day after day, the players produce and play fundamental baseball, and what's wrong with us by comparison?? A mystery why this team is such a mess year after year.

[Hubs]

On 9/3/2023 at 9:19 PM, Angelsjunky said:

Yes, it is a problem, but how to fix that problem? Sign "trustworthy" players? Given payroll constraints, how do they do that, at least in a meaningful way? And given the available free agent pool, how many players qualify as both good and trustworthy? I'm not sure any do.

My point was that any path to success requires better health from players they already have. Even if Arte opens up the vault and gives Minasian a Mets-like payroll, there just aren't the free agents to meaningfully improve the lineup; it is a sad day when Cody Bellinger is the best option. Similarly, they don't have the prospects to make substantial moves to improve the lineup.

So we're back where we started: the team sinks and swims on health.

 

1) New GM & Manager. New President of Baseball Ops.

2) Re-Sign Ohtani if you can. He's the most dynamic player in baseball, and you need him. I assume you are going to try to keep his AAV at $42-$48. Ok. 

3) Re-Sign Moustakas and Urshela. Neither will cost that much. $12-15M for the pair.

4) Sign Blake Snell. This is your big ticket pitching signing, pay him $160/5. $32M

5) Sign 2 BP arms, like Lopez and Moore.

You might be able to squeeze this in under the CBT, but if you can't then you get only one of Moustakas and Urshela. You're living with this next iteration of the team for the next three years, so...better make it work.

As far as Arbitration eligible guys, they have a few, but not more than say $20M AAV and I'd fully expect the new GM to cut ties (via Trade or NONTender) with a lot of the middling guys that will be up for arbitration, like Quijada and Herget and even Suarez.

2024 Active Competitive Balance Tax Totals

Note: Tax figures based on payroll data only. Outside revenue sources will be adjusted when available after the regular season.

PAYROLL TYPE							TOTAL
Competitive Balance Tax Threshold							$237,000,000
Est. Active AAV/Payroll							$109,825,000
Est. Player Benefits							$17,000,000
Est. Minor League Contracts							$5,200,000
Est. Pre-Arbitration Bonus Pool Contribution							$1,666,666
Est. Tax Payroll							$128,491,666
Est. Tax Payroll (Active + Est. Arb + Est. Pre-Arb)							$128,491,666

 

Edited September 5, 2023 by Hubs

[jsnpritchett]

4 minutes ago, Hubs said:

3) Re-Sign Moustakas and Urshela. Neither will cost that much. $12-15M for the pair.

 

I'm gonna keep pointing this out as long as people keep pushing for him: take another look at what Urshela did this year before he got hurt.  His underlying numbers were pretty weak: low exit velocity, low hard hit %, low barrel rate, higher than normal BABIP, etc, etc.  Couple that with the fact that the dude is recuperating from a broken hip (!) and he sure seems like a candidate for a bad year next year.

[Angels 1961]

I think the plan for next year should be Seinfeld plan. The plan is about NOTHING.

[Angels 1961]

48 minutes ago, jsnpritchett said:

I'm gonna keep pointing this out as long as people keep pushing for him: take another look at what Urshela did this year before he got hurt.  His underlying numbers were pretty weak: low exit velocity, low hard hit %, low barrel rate, higher than normal BABIP, etc, etc.  Couple that with the fact that the dude is recuperating from a broken hip (!) and he sure seems like a candidate for a bad year next year.

I agree but these are players who will sign here. Throw Grichuk also.

[Hubs]

23 hours ago, jsnpritchett said:

I'm gonna keep pointing this out as long as people keep pushing for him: take another look at what Urshela did this year before he got hurt.  His underlying numbers were pretty weak: low exit velocity, low hard hit %, low barrel rate, higher than normal BABIP, etc, etc.  Couple that with the fact that the dude is recuperating from a broken hip (!) and he sure seems like a candidate for a bad year next year.

Ok, good points. I just want another backup infielder, maybe that's Fletcher, but preferably one with Pop. Urshela had good numbers in 2022 with the Twins. They need one or two infielders to go along with Rengifo (Whom I never like, but he's been hitting well lately) on the bench, behind Drury, Schanuel, Neto and Rendon. 

[Hubs]

1 minute ago, Hubs said:

Ok, good points. I just want another backup infielder, maybe that's Fletcher, but preferably one with Pop. Urshela had good numbers in 2022 with the Twins. They need one or two infielders to go along with Rengifo (Whom I never like, but he's been hitting well lately) on the bench, behind Drury, Schanuel, Neto and Rendon. 

Moustakas also slumped lately, but the whole team has. I wouldn't think either will cost much and there aren't a lot of free agent infielders of interest...

First base: Joey Votto (club option), Rhys Hoskins, Max Muncy (club option), Josh Bell (opt-out), Brandon Belt, C.J. Cron, Eric Hosmer  

Second base: Whit Merrifield (mutual option), Jorge Polanco (club option), Adam Frazier, Jon Berti (club option), Kolten Wong, Jonathan Schoop

Third base: Matt Chapman, Justin Turner (opt-out), Josh Donaldson (mutual option), Eduardo Escobar (club option), Evan Longoria, Brian Anderson, Gio Urshela, Joey Wendle

Shortstop: Tim Anderson (club option), Javier Báez (opt-out), Elvis Andrus, Brandon Crawford, Amed Rosario, Paul DeJong (club option), Isiah Kiner-Falefa, Adalberto Mondesi

[Ron Mexico]

8 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Moustakas also slumped lately, but the whole team has. I wouldn't think either will cost much and there aren't a lot of free agent infielders of interest...

First base: Joey Votto (club option), Rhys Hoskins, Max Muncy (club option), Josh Bell (opt-out), Brandon Belt, C.J. Cron, Eric Hosmer  

Second base: Whit Merrifield (mutual option), Jorge Polanco (club option), Adam Frazier, Jon Berti (club option), Kolten Wong, Jonathan Schoop

Third base: Matt Chapman, Justin Turner (opt-out), Josh Donaldson (mutual option), Eduardo Escobar (club option), Evan Longoria, Brian Anderson, Gio Urshela, Joey Wendle

Shortstop: Tim Anderson (club option), Javier Báez (opt-out), Elvis Andrus, Brandon Crawford, Amed Rosario, Paul DeJong (club option), Isiah Kiner-Falefa, Adalberto Mondesi

One thing we know for sure is Baez won't be opting out 

[jsnpritchett]

12 minutes ago, Hubs said:

Moustakas also slumped lately, but the whole team has. I wouldn't think either will cost much and there aren't a lot of free agent infielders of interest...

First base: Joey Votto (club option), Rhys Hoskins, Max Muncy (club option), Josh Bell (opt-out), Brandon Belt, C.J. Cron, Eric Hosmer  

Second base: Whit Merrifield (mutual option), Jorge Polanco (club option), Adam Frazier, Jon Berti (club option), Kolten Wong, Jonathan Schoop

Third base: Matt Chapman, Justin Turner (opt-out), Josh Donaldson (mutual option), Eduardo Escobar (club option), Evan Longoria, Brian Anderson, Gio Urshela, Joey Wendle

Shortstop: Tim Anderson (club option), Javier Báez (opt-out), Elvis Andrus, Brandon Crawford, Amed Rosario, Paul DeJong (club option), Isiah Kiner-Falefa, Adalberto Mondesi

Yeah, I get that there aren't many great (or even good) options.  I still have this weird feeling that if Othani doesn't come back, Moreno is going to push to do something like sign Matt Chapman.  Rendon can DH.

[BTH]

19 hours ago, Hubs said:

Moustakas also slumped lately, but the whole team has. I wouldn't think either will cost much and there aren't a lot of free agent infielders of interest...

First base: Joey Votto (club option), Rhys Hoskins, Max Muncy (club option), Josh Bell (opt-out), Brandon Belt, C.J. Cron, Eric Hosmer  

Second base: Whit Merrifield (mutual option), Jorge Polanco (club option), Adam Frazier, Jon Berti (club option), Kolten Wong, Jonathan Schoop

Third base: Matt Chapman, Justin Turner (opt-out), Josh Donaldson (mutual option), Eduardo Escobar (club option), Evan Longoria, Brian Anderson, Gio Urshela, Joey Wendle

Shortstop: Tim Anderson (club option), Javier Báez (opt-out), Elvis Andrus, Brandon Crawford, Amed Rosario, Paul DeJong (club option), Isiah Kiner-Falefa, Adalberto Mondesi

of those players, the only ones that interest me are Hoskins, Merrifield, Chapman, and Turner.

(assuming Muncy, Polanco, and Berti all have their club options picked up)

[Mark68]

2 hours ago, BTH said:

of those players, the only ones that interest me are Hoskins, Merrifield, Chapman, and Turner.

(assuming Muncy, Polanco, and Berti all have their club options picked up)

I would agree--except for Turner. Dude is old. You know we'll sign him and he will have his inevitable crater season. 

[Mark68]

I think that whoever is in charge should be looking at talent that is being posted by NPB teams. This is an older article (April 2023), but there are some players on there that the Angels should be looking at...

7 Stars From Japan's NPB Who Could Jump To MLB - MLB Trade Rumors

Edited September 7, 2023 by Mark68

[BTH]

3 minutes ago, Mark68 said:

I would agree--except for Turner. Dude is old. You know we'll sign him and he will have his inevitable crater season. 

Yeah, that’s a concern.

But his approach, especially with RISP, is a good influence that can rub off on other players.

[BTH]

Just now, Mark68 said:

I think that whoever is in charge should be looking at talent that is being posted by NPB teams. This is an older article (April 2023), but there are some players on there that the Angels should be looking at...

They won’t be, for some stupid reason.

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

[SlappyUtilityMIF]

I laugh cause people are listing dudes like Max Muncey... The same dudes will blow the Gold dust up everyone's butts and spin it the way they want it. THEN POST THEIR supposed STAT outcomes which will be overly inflated for ZERO REASON..

Then SAME DUDES WILL CRY when he hits .190 with 15 Home Runs and 38 Rbi's with an OBP of .320 and say it's a horrible signing in 80-110 games.. When in reality THAT'S EXACTLY who he is!!!

Dude has 82 hits in 403 at bats = 203 AVG and 32 of those 82 hits have left the yard. 

The Doggs offense, defense and pitching staff can Win with those #'s. The HALOS cannot because most of the Rest is influx.